The Queen of the South thread

[Monkey Tennis]

It is, but without Marshall then Higgins is easily our best option for that position. Unless we go to a back 3 Higgins will have to be sacrificed from CB. Brownlie has been dodgy at times but the boy won't get better sitting on the bench and at this stage of the season I'd rather he got the game time at CB so he can be assessed on whether to re-sign him or not.

I know out best CB pairing is Higgins and Dowie but neither are getting any younger so trying to put some youth in our backline is something I'll struggle to criticise.

Many would find that less of a struggle as they glance at the form table.

[Rjc-1988]

It is, but without Marshall then Higgins is easily our best option for that position. Unless we go to a back 3 Higgins will have to be sacrificed from CB. Brownlie has been dodgy at times but the boy won't get better sitting on the bench and at this stage of the season I'd rather he got the game time at CB so he can be assessed on whether to re-sign him or not.

I know out best CB pairing is Higgins and Dowie but neither are getting any younger so trying to put some youth in our backline is something I'll struggle to criticise.

I am not at all sure that Higgy is our best option at LB and if it means playing Brownlie at CB then for me he is not the best option.

We all have different opinions but since Marshall has been out statstically we are probably one of theworst twoteams in the league. Dont forget also that this horrendous run has come at a time when we have more or less had a full squad to pick from (apart from Marshall) so either the squad is simply not good enough (that is a distinct possibility) and/or the revamped back four is leaking goals. Even when we were struggling to score goals earlier inthe season the back four kept us in most games. We are now shippng goals right left and centre..

To add injury to insult Kidd gets dropped not for the first time this season and it would not surprise me if he decides to look to pastures new next season.

[SUPERSOUTH]

Lewis Kidd in my opinion has been treated very badly by the manager, he is still young player learning his trade he has alot of championship experience and deserves to be more of a first pick each week the same as Marshall on the other side.

[kleinfaethetoon]

I have always thought Left Back is a natural position for Higgins he is so comfortable there although I would say not a modern style full back bombing up and down the line. Problem is he is needed at centre back with the current personnel we have !

[Rjc-1988]

Lewis Kidd in my opinion has been treated very badly by the manager, he is still young player learning his trade he has alot of championship experience and deserves to be more of a first pick each week the same as Marshall on the other side.

Agree - i think he will look elsewhere

[Guest Flash]

People do realise Fowler isn't the first manager to use Higgins as an auxiliary left-back don't they?

Indeed. Gus did it. With about the same level of success.

It would be interesting to see how many goals we have conceded and how many games we have won overall when he has played there over the years.

I think he has played LB 4 times this season and we have conceded 11 goals, no wins, 1 draw, 3 defeats.

As a simple, unscientific comparison with the corresponding fixtures when he didn't play there, we conceded 5 goals, 1 win, 2 draws, 1 defeat. So 6 more goals conceded across 4 games and 4 fewer points earned.

If the best option is playing him at LB, presumably if Rutherford or anybody else played there, we wouldn't even have got the one point from the 4 games.

[palmy_cammy]

I don't think Higgins is a particularly good option at left back.

Using it as a stick to beat Fowler with is pretty desperate though, when numerous managers have done the same.

[Guest Flash]

I don't think Higgins is a particularly good option at left back.

Using it as a stick to beat Fowler with is pretty desperate though, when numerous managers have done the same.

I didn't take it as people using it as a stick to beat Fowler. I just thought it was a discussion over whether it was the best option or not.

And I don't think trying it once or twice is a problem. But if you persist with it when it doesn't seem to be working, then people are going to question it.

[Distant Doonhamer]

I didn't take it as people using it as a stick to beat Fowler. I just thought it was a discussion over whether it was the best option or not.

And I don't think trying it once or twice is a problem. But if you persist with it when it doesn't seem to be working, then people are going to question it.

This.

It may be that Higgy is best option at LB with Marshall out.

Is that relative plus outweighed by the negative effect of moving him away from Centre Back.

For me the answer to that is yes.

[palmy_cammy]

I didn't take it as people using it as a stick to beat Fowler. I just thought it was a discussion over whether it was the best option or not.

And I don't think trying it once or twice is a problem. But if you persist with it when it doesn't seem to be working, then people are going to question it.

Yeah fair enough.

I just thought it was being over scrutinised a tad. The season has been a bit of a disaster, I don't think our choice of left back in a nothing game towards the end of it has all that much bearing on things.

[palmy_cammy]

Lewis Kidd in my opinion has been treated very badly by the manager, he is still young player learning his trade he has alot of championship experience and deserves to be more of a first pick each week the same as Marshall on the other side.

 

I couldn't confirm my suspicions last night as the website was down, but going by the OS Lewis Kidd has 25 starts and 5 sub appearances this season putting him =5th in our appearances list for the season on 30.  Marshall has 31 starts and 0 sub appearances and sits in =4th with Dowie.

 

Tell me more about this very bad treatment?

[RUSTY1111]

I couldn't confirm my suspicions last night as the website was down, but going by the OS Lewis Kidd has 25 starts and 5 sub appearances this season putting him =5th in our appearances list for the season on 30. Marshall has 31 starts and 0 sub appearances and sits in =4th with Dowie.

Tell me more about this very bad treatment?

I update the season stats on Queens wikipedia season page after every game and find this more accurate than the official website that seems to update not so readily.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_Queen_of_the_South_F.C._season

Edited April 15, 2016 by RUSTY1111

[Rjc-1988]

In this horrendous run of results ironically we have started to score a few goals something we singularly struggled to do earlier. Without any shadow of doubt the poor results have been as a direct result of shambolic defending. There is no doubt that Marshall has been a massive loss but surely the obvious solution was to keep the central area as tight as possible. At RB i think Kidd is almost as certain a pick as Marshall is at LB but I have noticed that Kidd has been left out a few times this season for no good reason and while I may well be wrong I have a feeling that Kidd is not one of the "trusted few". Yes he has taken time to adjust to to the role and he can be caught out defensively from time to time but in terms of commitment and energy for me he is far and away our best option at RB. There area number of players that I am not worried if we keep or not but Kidd is a young player who will only get better and if he disappears in the close season it will represent poor management and judgement.

[Homer Thompson]

I update the season stats on Queens wikipedia season page after every game and find this more accurate than the official website that seems to update not so readily.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_Queen_of_the_South_F.C._season

All the stats on the website update immediately at full time. There is an issue, mainly with subs and cards, which needs sorted though

 

ETA - actually that might not be quite right. The player stats might not update until the match report is done. Cant remember!

In this horrendous run of results ironically we have started to score a few goals something we singularly struggled to do earlier. Without any shadow of doubt the poor results have been as a direct result of shambolic defending. There is no doubt that Marshall has been a massive loss but surely the obvious solution was to keep the central area as tight as possible. At RB i think Kidd is almost as certain a pick as Marshall is at LB but I have noticed that Kidd has been left out a few times this season for no good reason and while I may well be wrong I have a feeling that Kidd is not one of the "trusted few". Yes he has taken time to adjust to to the role and he can be caught out defensively from time to time but in terms of commitment and energy for me he is far and away our best option at RB. There area number of players that I am not worried if we keep or not but Kidd is a young player who will only get better and if he disappears in the close season it will represent poor management and judgement.

Fowler has been criticised since last summer for not bringing in a right back because Kidd, according to many, isnt good enough. Now, when he doesnt play Fowler gets criticised again.

 

Theres little doubt that, had Higgins been left in the centre and Jacobs, or someone else, been moved to left back there would have been just as much criticism of Fowler for leaving a recognised defender, Brownlie, on the bench.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Mr X

[Skyline Drifter]

I couldn't confirm my suspicions last night as the website was down, but going by the OS Lewis Kidd has 25 starts and 5 sub appearances this season putting him =5th in our appearances list for the season on 30.  Marshall has 31 starts and 0 sub appearances and sits in =4th with Dowie.

 

Tell me more about this very bad treatment?

Lewis Kidd has started 20, been a used sub another 5 and an unused sub 3 times in our 33 league games to date. He started all 5 cup ties. Of the five matches he missed completely he was suspended for one and injured for at least three of them (not sure if he was injured or just left out against Falkirk at Palmerston in November but it seems unlikely he wasn't even on the bench if he was fit). One of the unused subs was his first game back after injury too so hardly unreasonable that he wasn't risked.

 

Of the other defensive players:

Dowie has started every game he's been available for (he missed 5 games with a hamstring problem Oct / Nov, the Livi cup tie with a niggle and was ill for the 6-0 win over Dumbarton)

Higgins has started every game bar three. He injured his ankle in January but missed only one game completely due to weather and was an unused sub in the next. He then missed the last trip to Ibrox through suspension.

Marshall started every game other than the Livingston cup tie where he came on at half time, up to his injury at Paisley and hasn't played since.

Brownlie has started 23 league games, been a used sub in 4 and unused in 4. He missed two games through injury in October. He started 2 cup ties and was a used sub at Dumbarton. He missed the opening two cup ties injured.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Skyline Drifter

[Guest Flash]

Fowler has been criticised since last summer for not bringing in a right back because Kidd, according to many, isnt good enough. Now, when he doesnt play Fowler gets criticised.

This isn't really relevant to the discussion which is whether Kidd is currently the best option at RB or not. Bringing in somebody who is better makes sense. Leaving him out in favour of somebody who is worse doesn't. So, if Kidd doesn't play at RB, it is because Fowler thinks the other options are better, not because somebody who plays for somebody else is better.

Looking back at the league games in which he was left out, which happened mostly up until the home game with Raith in December

Dowie played at RB v Dumbarton and Rangers.

Brownlie played at RB v St. Mirren, Raith and Falkirk

Jacobs played at RB v Rangers, Livi and Dumbarton and RWB v Raith. And, of course, Jacobs played RB on Tuesday v Dumbarton.

In games Kidd started, but not at RB or RWB, Jacobs was RB v Hibs while Kidd played as a striker and Kidd played RM v Morton with Brownlie at RB.

I might have missed some and it doesn't take account of suspensions. I've missed out the period that he was injured recently. ETA The list is of the games where he was left out of the starting line-up which is usually an indication that another player has been preferred.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Flash

[Skyline Drifter]

Looking back at the league games in which he was left out, which happened mostly up until the home game with Raith in December

Dowie played at RB v Dumbarton and Rangers.

Brownlie played at RB v St. Mirren, Raith and Falkirk

Jacobs played at RB v Rangers, Livi and Dumbarton and RWB v Raith. And, of course, Jacobs played RB on Tuesday v Dumbarton.

In games Kidd started, but not at RB or RWB, Jacobs was RB v Hibs while Kidd played as a striker and Kidd played RM v Morton with Brownlie at RB.

I might have missed some and it doesn't take account of suspensions. I've missed out the period that he was injured recently. ETA The list is of the games where he was left out of the starting line-up which is usually an indication that another player has been preferred.

Sorry, I'm finding that a bit confusing to follow as you've included some games he was out injured and not included others. The games he hasn't started were:

 

22/8/15 Dumbarton (A) - Used Sub - Dowie played right back

30/8/15 Rangers (H) - Unused Sub - Dowie played right back

5/9/15 - St Mirren (H) - Unused Sub - Brownlie played right back

12/9/15 - Raith Rov (A) - Used Sub - Brownlie played right back

17/10/15 - Rangers (A) - Out Injured Ankle - Jacobs played right back

24/10/15 - Livingston (H) - Unused Sub (not fit enough to start) - Jacobs played right back

21/11/15 - Falkirk (H) - Not in matchday squad, not sure if injured or not - Brownlie played right back or we started in a back three, not sure which.

11/12/15 - Raith Rov (H) - Used Sub - We played a back three

27/2/16 - Falkirk (A) - Suspended - Jacobs played right back

15/3/16 - Morton (A) - Out Injured - Jacobs started at right back, Murdoch was moved there during the game.

19/3/16 - Dumbarton (H) - Out Injured - Murdoch played right back.

2/4/16 - Falkirk (H) - Used Sub - Murdoch started at right back

12/4/16 - Dumbarton (A) - Used Sub - Jacobs started at right back

 

He didn't start the season in great form, as he didn't the season before, and was left out of the starting line up for a month or so at the end of August  / start of September. From then until this month he's started every game he was available for except Raith in December when we started a back three and possibly the Falkirk game in November when I am presuming he had an injury but don't know.

 

After a couple of impressive showings at full back Murdoch was then used there against Falkirk, Lewis having had a bit of a mare at Ibrox the week before. And then he was left out on Tuesday for Jacobs for whatever reason. I presume he was fit since he was on the bench and came on.

[Homer Thompson]

This isn't really relevant to the discussion which is whether Kidd is currently the best option at RB or not. Bringing in somebody who is better makes sense. Leaving him out in favour of somebody who is worse doesn't. So, if Kidd doesn't play at RB, it is because Fowler thinks the other options are better, not because somebody who plays for somebody else is better.

 

That wasnt really the point though. Had the comments early in the season been "Kidds will do but we need a better right back" then you'd be right. Unfortunately, the comments were more like "Kidd cant play right back". Now that hes been left out, apparently, he can.

 

The whole thing is moot now anyone given the actual number of times he's been left out

[Guest Flash]

That wasnt really the point though. Had the comments early in the season been "Kidds will do but we need a better right back" then you'd be right. Unfortunately, the comments were more like "Kidd cant play right back". Now that hes been left out, apparently, he can.

 

The whole thing is moot now anyone given the actual number of times he's been left out

I can't remember the early season comments, so have to assume that you are right and that people were calling for Brownlie or Jacobs to play there instead and not that it was a case of people suggesting Kidd would be better as a wing back.

I also thought the latest discussion was over whether he should be the same as Marshall and be an almost automatic pick at right back or right wing back. Thanks to SD for correcting my post. It looks like he was available to start 27 league games at right back or right wing back and somebody else was preferred there in 9 of them. So another player was picked ahead of him at right back or right wing back in a third of the games that he was available. I think that is quite a lot compared to Marshall who, I think, has always been the left back or left wing back when available.

[RUSTY1111]

I can't remember the early season comments, so have to assume that you are right and that people were calling for Brownlie or Jacobs to play there instead and not that it was a case of people suggesting Kidd would be better as a wing back.

I also thought the latest discussion was over whether he should be the same as Marshall and be an almost automatic pick at right back or right wing back. Thanks to SD for correcting my post. It looks like he was available to start 27 league games at right back or right wing back and somebody else was preferred there in 9 of them. So another player was picked ahead of him at right back or right wing back in a third of the games that he was available. I think that is quite a lot compared to Marshall who, I think, has always been the left back or left wing back when available.

Marshall played every match in league and cup and was the only ever-present starter of every match until he picked-up his hamstring injury at Paisley. I reckon our defensive frailties have increased since Marshall's injury.