JRS LEFT PEG Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Jeezo, still those saying he was right enough . Hope his (looming ) next move is a better one for him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Jeezo, still those saying he was right enough . Hope his (looming ) next move is a better one for him. Whos to say if he had stayed we wouldnt be having a similar, poor, season? Then staying would have looked stupid A chance to manage a decent sized club at the top level, in the country, is an absolute no brainer of a decision for any manager 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRS LEFT PEG Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Whos to say if he had stayed we wouldnt be having a similar, poor, season? Then staying would have looked stupid A chance to manage a decent sized club at the top level, in the country, is an absolute no brainer of a decision for any manager Come on now . We would be better off and his reputation enhanced . A young guy with plenty time on his side , who was in too much of a hurry and going to the wrong club as well 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Come on now . We would be better off and his reputation enhanced . A young guy with plenty time on his side , who was in too much of a hurry and going to the wrong club as well Unless we were top of the league, his reputation would be basically the same. If we were sitting mid-table theres no guarantee bigger clubs would have been looking at him. He cashed in and took a bigger job when his stock was high. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkyblue2 Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Unless we were top of the league, his reputation would be basically the same. If we were sitting mid-table theres no guarantee bigger clubs would have been looking at him. He cashed in and took a bigger job when his stock was high. He had a great chance to take us to at least the play offs but decided to jump ship at the first opportunity. Killie are a bigger club but not worth risking your career over IMO Long term pain for short term gain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 He had a great chance to take us to at least the play offs but decided to jump ship at the first opportunity. Killie are a bigger club but not worth risking your career over IMO Long term pain for short term gain. He did and I wish he had stayed to try. Getting Queens into the top four really wouldnt have enhanced his reputation particularly. Far too many 'ifs and buts' to make him staying a realistic decision 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRS LEFT PEG Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Unless we were top of the league, his reputation would be basically the same. If we were sitting mid-table theres no guarantee bigger clubs would have been looking at him. He cashed in and took a bigger job when his stock was high. No way ! I would expect us - and thats being conservative- to be doing at least as well as Alloa whose boss seems to be regarded as one of the countries hottest prospects. AJ would have known what Qos team to send out from the onset with no fucking around whatsoever. We would be better off defo and so would his CV. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 No way ! I would expect us - and thats being conservative- to be doing at least as well as Alloa whose boss seems to be regarded as one of the countries hottest prospects. AJ would have known what Qos team to send out from the onset with no fucking around whatsoever. We would be better off defo and so would his CV. You mean Hartley who didnt get the Hibs job and doesnt look like getting the ICT job either? As I said, far too many 'what ifs' to say with any certainty that you would be right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkyblue2 Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 How many managers have left us for greener pastures and done well? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 How many managers have left us for greener pastures and done well? Not many! Not sure I can think of any actually! Lets look at the Johnston question another way. Say he had stayed and done well. What clubs would he, realistically, be likely to move to. And who else would be going for those jobs? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkyblue2 Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 If he had stayed and done well I'm sure he could have done better than Killie, even moving south but I've no idea what clubs are looking for when they appoint managers as we know it's a gamble whoever gets the job. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 If he had stayed and done well I'm sure he could have done better than Killie, even moving south but I've no idea what clubs are looking for when they appoint managers as we know it's a gamble whoever gets the job. Really? You think a club down south would take a chance on a manager just because they finished top 4 in the second tier of Scottish football? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkyblue2 Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 If he took us to the SPL they might. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloop John B Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Really? You think a club down south would take a chance on a manager just because they finished top 4 in the second tier of Scottish football? Steven Pressley? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 If he took us to the SPL they might. And what if he didnt. As I said, the "should have stayed" argument is based on lots of 'what ifs' Steven Pressley? Fair point. Although, after three years managing at this level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 How many managers have left us for greener pastures and done well? How many managers have actually left us by choice to take another job? Not many. Allan Johnston, Gordon Chisholm, John Connolly, Billy McLaren. I think if we go far enough back Willie McLean maybe did but it's before my time. There might have been the odd other one in older times but basically it's a short list. Connolly and Chisholm crashed elsewhere certainly. I think from memory McLaren did well initially at Hamilton. Was it him who took them into the Premier Division? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkyblue2 Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 And what if he didnt. As I said, the "should have stayed" argument is based on lots of 'what ifs' Fair point. Although, after three years managing at this level. So you think he made the right decision to leave? No one knows what would have happened but I'm certain we wouldnt be where we are now had he stayed and if we finished mid table I dont think he would be sacked but unless he turns things around at Killie he may end up on the scrapheap. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 So you think he made the right decision to leave? No one knows what would have happened but I'm certain we wouldnt be where we are now had he stayed and if we finished mid table I dont think he would be sacked but unless he turns things around at Killie he may end up on the scrapheap. Obviously, right now it looks like a bad decision. I dont think any of us expected him to do so badly though. I would have loved him to stay and I agree we would be better off than we are. I just dont agree that staying would have been a better career move for Johnston. Had Killie had a decent run in either cup or been a few places higher in the league no-one would be questioning it He was offered a job at a bigger club, one which he has a connection too, at a higher level. I dont get how anyone would expect him to turn that down 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRS LEFT PEG Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 (edited) Obviously, right now it looks like a bad decision. I dont think any of us expected him to do so badly though. I would have loved him to stay and I agree we would be better off than we are. I just dont agree that staying would have been a better career move for Johnston. Had Killie had a decent run in either cup or been a few places higher in the league no-one would be questioning it He was offered a job at a bigger club, one which he has a connection too, at a higher level. I dont get how anyone would expect him to turn that down A lot ( all?) of those 'initiatives' Flash has listed that JM has brought in have failed . This leads me to believe that points have therefore been lost that would not have been under the previous regime and we would be sitting more comfortably under Johnston. This is actually not a JM bashing piece as such, just pointing out that AJ would have a safe job here instead of probably one game away from the sack. Equate that up and it was a bad career move. Edited December 1, 2013 by JRS LEFT PEG 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fae_the_'briggs Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 (edited) So we're back to this "what if Magic had stayed" argument. Anyone who categorically states that they know we would be in a better position if he had stayed should not be heeded no matter how high their opinion is normally held. As Mr X points out, and it has been pointed out before, there are too many ifs and buts to make any positive conclusions on this matter, just read through the previous few posts and their littered with "ifs" and "buts". Here's a few more that have also been voiced before: IF Magic had stayed and fielded as far as possible what remained of last season's squad you cannot say for certain that we would have started the league any better, it's pure speculation. IF Magic had stayed and we actually had less points than we do at present how can you tell that he wouldn't have been sacked by now anyway. You can't tell without the aid of a crystal ball. IF McIntyre had fielded as far as possible what remained of last season's squad when he first took over you cannot say for sure that we would have been any better or worse off than we are, again pure speculation. IF Magic had stayed you can't say for certain that he would have brought in any better replacements for the players who left than McIntyre has. It would actually have been impossible for either of them to play certain players at the start of the season even if they wanted to owing to injuries. (Carmichael and Mitchell) The benefit of hindsight is a great thing. Would Magic still have left if he knew the position that Killie would be in just now? No way of telling. Would McIntyre have changed his early season tactics and line-ups? No way of telling. This whole debate is based on hypothetical situations, wishful thinking and ifs and buts. I would have been delighted if Johnston had stayed to see where he could have taken us but it can't be claimed for sure that he would have built on last season's success. . Edited December 1, 2013 by Fae_the_'briggs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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