Strange phenomenon of midweek league games

[HibeeJibee]

Below is a typical Scottish club's fixture list from the mid-20th century - in this case Morton's ultimately record-breaking 1966-67 season.

As traditional the season opened with League Cup sections run Sat-Wed-Sat > Sat-Wed-Sat. You met every opponent once, then again in exactly the same order (and same opponent on both midweeks). In the league you also met every opponent once, then again in exactly the same order. All very simple...

... except for some reason they played Stenhousemuir and Brechin twice in the opening 6 games! All in midweek - 1 during LC sections, then 3 midweeks after:

This phenomenon of playing the same opponents twice very early in the season lasted decades. Here are Hearts and Hibs fixtures for 1939-40...

... whoever you met on opening Saturday, you met again in midweek just 10 days later; whoever on the Saturday between, in midweek 3 weeks later:

Here is 1972-73, this time 4 consecutive midweeks in Division Two entails playing both matches against 2 other opponents:





Why...?!

Edited August 21, 2022 by HibeeJibee

[BFTD]

Did it finish with the sectional League Cup?

Was there some attempt made to make the midweek opponents as close geographically as possible?

[parsforlife]

Pure speculation here and you may have more info to tell me I'm talking shite,

We're covering a period where floodlights were either non-existent or rare. Therefore mid-week games had to either be early or late in the season,  presumably early being preferred for scheduling as late season would more likely needed for catching up postponed games.   

With those games being scheduled-  in an era with gate sharing being used teams were paired together to try and balance out the benefit of bigger crowds on opening day vs the drop in midweek attendances. 

[Jacksgranda]

5 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Did it finish with the sectional League Cup?

Was there some attempt made to make the midweek opponents as close geographically as possible?

Morton v Brechin scuppers that argument.

[HibeeJibee]

31 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Did it finish with the sectional League Cup?

If you mean did the phenomenon end when the sections ended... no.

It appears to have ended when Premier Division began in 1975-76. Of course it saw 10 teams playing each other 4 times, while lower levels initially only played 26 games and a Spring Cup.

 

31 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Was there some attempt made to make the midweek opponents as close geographically as possible?

There doesn't seem to have been e.g. Brechin + Morton and plenty of other examples.

 

25 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Pure speculation here and you may have more info to tell me I'm talking shite,

We're covering a period where floodlights were either non-existent or rare. Therefore mid-week games had to either be early or late in the season,  presumably early being preferred for scheduling as late season would more likely needed for catching up postponed games.   

With those games being scheduled-  in an era with gate sharing being used teams were paired together to try and balance out the benefit of bigger crowds on opening day vs the drop in midweek attendances. 

I had a similar theory, namely that with gate-sharing in operation, it was somehow considered "fairest" to play both games versus somebody in midweek.

However that doesn't fit 1939-40 where you play somebody on Saturday and the return in midweek.

I also wondered if being pre-supercomputers it was an easy way to ensure everybody had equal numbers of H and A midweek games.

Neither convinces, though.

Edited August 21, 2022 by HibeeJibee

[parsforlife]

2 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

However that doesn't fit 1939-40 examples where you play somebody on a Saturday and the return on a midweek.

With gate-sharing does it matter?  Both sides would benefit from one of the games being on a Saturday.

[HibeeJibee]

17 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

With gate-sharing does it matter?  Both sides would benefit from one of the games being on a Saturday.

True, but then in 1960s and 1970s they're not doing that - instead you're playing both games against a pair of opponents in midweek.

Interestingly when LC sections moved from Sat-Wed-Sat > Sat-Wed-Sat to Sat-Wed-Sat-Wed-Sat-Wed around 1970... which was motivated by a desire to start the league season on a Saturday, not in midweek midway through LC sections... they nevertheless kept the opening 2 midweek LC sectional games as home-&-away encounters against the same opponent then 3rd against somebody else. (When playing all 3 opponents once each in midweek might've seemed more logical).


It just seems very strange particularly when you're only playing everybody twice. There must have been a good reason behind it - whether logistical, financial or another factor - because otherwise it was rigorously 'play everybody once, then again in exact same order'...

... only other time they seem to have broken that pattern was for certain New Year games (e.g. in 1939-40 you can see Hearts v Arbroath and Cowdenbeath v Hibs arrive a few rounds 'early').

Edited August 21, 2022 by HibeeJibee

[BFTD]

16 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Morton v Brechin scuppers that argument.

I suppose somebody would always end up worst off, no matter how they shoogled the clubs around. Somebody has to take a trip to Dumfries or Stranraer.

TBF, if I had to choose somebody to piss off, I'd probably make it Morton.

[parsforlife]

9 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

True, but then in 1960s and 1970s they're not doing that - instead you're playing both games against a pair of opponents in midweek.

There must have been a good reason behind it - whether logistical, financial or another factor - because otherwise it was rigorously 'play everybody once, then again in exact same order'...

... only other time they seem to have broken that pattern was for certain New Year games (e.g. in 1939-40 you can see Hearts v Arbroath and Cowdenbeath v Hibs arrive a few rounds 'early').

I think its possible It's been slightly evolved from the 30s to the 60s, with perhaps the financial benefit of one Saturday early on being moved towards some clubs arguing its not fair to play one game on a saturday and the other midweek, therefore moving to a 2 midweek model. 

The other question I have is if any of these midweeks align to any of the traditional but since forgotten holidays, even local ones?  I remember the juniors still allowing clubs to take some september weekend off if they fancied even recently.  I think in those days the whims of the fixture secretary probably held alot of sway.  

[HibeeJibee]

23 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

The other question I have is if any of these midweeks align to any of the traditional but since forgotten holidays, even local ones? 

Nope always full midweek cards for the whole division. Generally it just seems to be the earliest X midweeks of the season. Perhaps due to daylight/warmth or just getting them done.

Earlier in history clubs did seem to arrange games on local Monday holidays.

EDIT: Earliest fixture booklet I've got is 1933-34 and literally only variation seems to be smaller Edinburgh or Glasgow clubs are sometimes listed Tuesday not Wednesday, presumably to avoid rival attractions.
 

 

36 minutes ago, BFTD said:

I suppose somebody would always end up worst off, no matter how they shoogled the clubs around. Somebody has to take a trip to Dumfries or Stranraer.

I've picked out another fixture list booklet (for 1968-69) and no sign of geography:

Ayr Utd + Alloa
Brechin + Clydebank
Dumbarton + Montrose
East Fife + Queen's Park
East Stirlingshire + Stranraer
Forfar + Hamilton
Motherwell + Albion Rovers
Queen of the South + Berwick
Stirling Albion + Cowdenbeath

Geographically you'd surely have paired-up Angus and Fife clubs... Stirlingshire and Lanarkshire clubs... Dunbartonshire/Glasgow and Ayrshire/D&G clubs... etc.

[As an aside - the New Year derbies were Albion Rovers v Hamilton and Montrose v Brechin... Motherwell v Forfar were paired-up as leftovers!].

Edited August 21, 2022 by HibeeJibee

[resk]

Interesting stuff!  I wonder if it's simply something to do with trying to establish a bit of rivalry between the (random) clubs that get paired up?  Eg. Hibs v Queens isn't an attention-grabbing matchup if they play each other in September then March or something, but if the two matches take place quite close together, the press can talk about "settling scores" in the second of the matches.  In a similar way to European ties, where maybe the tackles were flying in the first leg, or one or both teams feel aggrieved at the result, and the second leg gets portrayed as a grudge match by the media.  This might also help to keep attendances high for midweek games.  

Otherwise, I'm stumped!

[HibeeJibee]

1 hour ago, resk said:

Interesting stuff!  I wonder if it's simply something to do with trying to establish a bit of rivalry between the (random) clubs that get paired up?

Eg. Hibs v Queens isn't an attention-grabbing matchup if they play each other in September then March or something, but if the two matches take place quite close together, the press can talk about "settling scores" in the second of the matches.  In a similar way to European ties, where maybe the tackles were flying in the first leg, or one or both teams feel aggrieved at the result, and the second leg gets portrayed as a grudge match by the media.

This might also help to keep attendances high for midweek games.

Possible... but did the press, and fans mentality, work that way 50-80yrs ago? Unsure.

Similarly we could speculate about away supports... but they were much more minimal and went by rail.


Anyway the more I look into this the more utterly bizarre it gets. For example I just picked Hamilton's history book off the wall and looked at a few seasons:

- in their opening 8 league matches of 1937-38 no fewer than 6 of them were against Partick, Celtic and St Johnstone!

- in their opening 12 matches of 1956-57 no fewer than 8 of them were against Brechin and Dumbarton (H&A in League Cup then H&A in league)... all 4 v Dumbarton in midweek. Crazy!

- everybody seems to have opened 1968-69 league campaign home & away to the same opponent!

[tamthebam]

Traditionally Wednesday was a half day in Edinburgh, right up to the end of the 80s and into the 90s in some cases (banks and post offices). Other places had their half day on different days

There was actually a midweek Junior league - Dunbar United played Postal United* of the midweek Junior League in the Scottish Junior Cup in 1927.

Research showed Dunbar played away to Dalkeith in a midweek game in August 1927 and there was an advert for a train to the game. An early August midweek fixture in Dunbar that season drew a reported crowd of 2000 to Countess Park, presumably a lot of holidaymakers to the Sunny Dunny went along to the game  

Spoiler

* or were they FC Postal (in joke)

 

[HibeeJibee]

25th August 1937:

[BFTD]

2 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

25th August 1937:

And yet there's no reason given for why they started doing it to begin with!

At least you know it must have been discussed in 1935/36. Presumably there's a repository of old SFL meeting minutes somewhere?

[HibeeJibee]

11 hours ago, BFTD said:

And yet there's no reason given for why they started doing it to begin with!

Yep.

Searching in 'British Newspaper Archive' for obvious words & phrases returns nothing else of consequence.

e.g. 26th June 1937:



 

11 hours ago, BFTD said:

At least you know it must have been discussed in 1935/36. Presumably there's a repository of old SFL meeting minutes somewhere?

Hampden museum... but if mentioned at all, may just state decision - not elaborate debate/reason/etc.

[BFTD]

13 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Yep.

Searching in 'British Newspaper Archive' for obvious words & phrases returns nothing else of consequence.

e.g. 26th June 1937:



 

Hampden museum... but if mentioned at all, may just state decision - not elaborate debate/reason/etc.

Let us know how it went!

[Cosmic Joe]

On 21/08/2022 at 13:35, HibeeJibee said:

Below is a typical Scottish club's fixture list from the mid-20th century - in this case Morton's ultimately record-breaking 1966-67 season.

As traditional the season opened with League Cup sections run Sat-Wed-Sat > Sat-Wed-Sat. You met every opponent once, then again in exactly the same order (and same opponent on both midweeks). In the league you also met every opponent once, then again in exactly the same order. All very simple...

... except for some reason they played Stenhousemuir and Brechin twice in the opening 6 games! All in midweek - 1 during LC sections, then 3 midweeks after:

This phenomenon of playing the same opponents twice very early in the season lasted decades. Here are Hearts and Hibs fixtures for 1939-40...

... whoever you met on opening Saturday, you met again in midweek just 10 days later; whoever on the Saturday between, in midweek 3 weeks later:

Here is 1972-73, this time 4 consecutive midweeks in Division Two entails playing both matches against 2 other opponents:





Why...?!

Was it not 1963-64 that was Morton's record breaking season? 

[HibeeJibee]

6 minutes ago, Cosmic Joe said:

Was it not 1963-64 that was Morton's record breaking season? 

I think that was also a record-breaking season... perhaps for goals scored and a winning streak... but 1966-67 was definitely a record-breaking season because they posted the most points ever in a lower division during 2-points-for-a-win era. Helped by a 14-game winning streak they got 69pts compared to 67pts in 1963-64.

(Indeed it only got bettered at top division level by Rangers in 1919-20, 1920-21, 1991-92 and 1992-93 plus Celtic in 1987-88 during periods when the top tier played 42 or 44 league games).

[HibeeJibee]

Further enquiries and more digging in newspaper archive still haven't yet turned-up any indication of why this practice was adopted then perpetuated, even though it was clearly universal and lasted for almost half a century.

It's clear that from mid-1930s until WWII the practice was to play the midweeks as mirror images of the opening 2 weekends; then after WWII (especially after leagues expanded from 16 to 18/19 in mid-1950s) the practice was to play midweeks as mirror images of each other, with midweeks #1 & #4 and #2 & #3 being the pairs if there were 4 such dates.

However an interesting aside from 1978-79. Here are Hearts fixtures that season, by this time in 10-team Premier Division playing everybody 4 times for 36-game season. There are no league midweeks at all as League Cup is now straight knockout over 2 legs, all in midweek (except R2 2nd legs on Sat 2nd Sep).

Note that all 4 sets of fixtures are still laid-out in exactly the same order:

Aberdeen > Celtic > Hibs > Partick > Morton > Motherwell > Dundee Utd > St Mirren > Rangers