How do you solve a problem like the Scottish Premiership?

[Otis Blue]

15 hours ago, 'WellDel said:

... It's very much the case in many instances that bigotry is ingrained and passed on down through the generations. It's a scourge and embarrassment in this day and age, and until more folk are prepared to break this disgusting cycle things will never change ...

^^^ unfortunately, this.

I know these posts have been about Celtic but they're both tarred with the same grim brush.  When Rangers were in the Championship (I think it was their first season there) I took my 14 year old son to both games at Palmerston.  In one of the games there was a group of wee fannies collected at the end of the away stand facing the home support - they were singing songs about Bobby Sands (amongst other tasteless things).  I remember my 14 year old asking me who Bobby Sands was and why they were singing about him.  So I found myself having to explain a bit of that dark history to him whilst trying to watch a Championship league game.  The wee fannies in the Rangers support were about 17 to 25 years old, and I thought to myself ... these dafties weren't even alive when Sands was in the news so how the hell do they know who he was? - so clearly this sort of stuff gets passed down through the generations from the parents, relatives etc.  Although we won the game and I should have been happy, I left that game feeling very depressed.

[AJF]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

Can use any time period you want tbh, id be stunned if youve lost more than 50 league games in the past decade.

You can claim Rangers fans are being "loyal" by sticking a club thats only winning 80+% of games and challenging for 3 trophies, but was the point not that your fans would disappear if you dropped to the level of every other club (only hope is a miracle cup run, winning 50% of league games a great season, guaranteed a couple of thumpings a season, never in europe)?

Which was my point. Using a specific time period (as we both have), paints different pictures.

I already said I wasn't really arguing against the over-riding point initially made in relation to fan loyalty being influenced by success or winning matches, I was specifically questioning whether we were viewed as being in a period of mediocrity.

You seem to be suggesting that I feel we have been in a period of mediocrity to make an argument of fan loyalty. I could say the opposite is also happening where Rangers have been pretty widely and consistently ridiculed on here for years regarding our record since gaining promotion but it is now being painted as "above average", which I think is disingenuous.

[Desp]

Rangers' fans couldn't give a shit if they're battering Motherwell or Montrose every week.  The entitlement they have just needs wins by Rangers.

It's funny how the only season on their journey where the crowds at Ibrox went down dramatically was 2014/15, when they ended up finishing 3rd and ragdolled from the Edinburgh sides.  I'm sure they'll carp on about boardroom protests and the likes, but they weren't dominating like they were used to, and a big f**k off amount of fans couldn't handle it.

[AJF]

9 minutes ago, Desp said:

Rangers' fans couldn't give a shit if they're battering Motherwell or Montrose every week.  The entitlement they have just needs wins by Rangers.

It's funny how the only season on their journey where the crowds at Ibrox went down dramatically was 2014/15, when they ended up finishing 3rd and ragdolled from the Edinburgh sides.  I'm sure they'll carp on about boardroom protests and the likes, but they weren't dominating like they were used to, and a big f**k off amount of fans couldn't handle it.

Why didn't our attendances go down dramatically when we finished 3rd twice in a row in the Premiership then?

To outright disregard the protests and feelings towards the board at that time as a contributing factor is futile. I'm not saying it was the only factor, but it evidently had a major part compared to the argument of finishing 3rd considering the above example I gave where we finished 3rd twice in a row in 16/17 and 17/18 yet attendances remained high.

Edited March 16, 2023 by AJF

[Dons_1988]

Rangers fans claiming they’ve experienced any sort of true mediocrity is fucking laughable. Ridiculous. 

[Ranaldo Bairn]

2 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Rangers fans claiming they’ve experienced any sort of true mediocrity is fucking laughable. Ridiculous. 

It's quite breathtaking in its infantility.

They either win everything or it's a catastrophe. They have the minds of toddlers.

[AJF]

5 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Rangers fans claiming they’ve experienced any sort of true mediocrity is fucking laughable. Ridiculous. 

As I said, it’s relative to who you support. What is mediocre for one team may not be considered mediocre for another. Surely you can appreciate that?

[Dons_1988]

5 minutes ago, AJF said:

As I said, it’s relative to who you support. What is mediocre for one team may not be considered mediocre for another. Surely you can appreciate that?

You can call it relativity but in reality it’s just a very blinkered view of mediocrity. To extreme degrees. 

[LIVIFOREVER]

1 hour ago, bennett said:

 

That's goal post shifting, this is what I replied to "I would love to see the OF move to the second/third tier of a pan-European set up and not be guaranteed their regular feed of trophies"

2 major trophies in 10 years hasn't seen attendances plummet. 

 

Still not the same though, losing a lot of games week after week would test your fanbase far more than it did winning most of your games in the lower leagues, and still skooshing the league. You also knew it would only be a matter of time before you got into the top tier, in comparison you wont win anywhere near the amount of games in a European league, as well as not winning the league or any other comparable cup comp at that level. That's a huge difference from walking lower level leagues and still having the enjoyment of winning week after week.

1 hour ago, AJF said:

Without arguing too vociferously against the over-riding point, do you not feel that Rangers are in a significant spell of mediocrity?

Again, your standards of mediocrity are hugely different from the 10 other top flight teams, playing in a European league would bring The Rangers down to our level of experiencing mediocrity, or a good bit closer to it. Presently if you lost 2 games in a row your fans would be getting twitchy, esp if Celtic won theirs and opened a gap on you, say you lost 5 or 6 in a row in a European league, and that became a regular thing, hitting bad spells for 5, 6, 7 or even 8 games without a win, what do you think would happen to your average bear then?

[LIVIFOREVER]

16 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

It's quite breathtaking in its infantility.

They either win everything or it's a catastrophe. They have the minds of toddlers.

I'd love to see how they'd react to hitting a losing streak of 5 games, and even going 8 games without a win, and that happened to them once or twce a season, then they'd know what mediocrity meant.

 

Oh and finishing mid table downwards a few seasons. Presently them finishing 2nd is crap for their fans, and if it happens 2 seasons running they're wanting the manager sacked.

Edited March 16, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[Jacksgranda]

18 hours ago, Jinky67 said:

Unique is probably a better description actually however he knows exactly what I was referring to.

To say it’s the greatest footballing achievement is a wild take considering Real Madrids 14 European Cups, Denmark and Greece winning the Euros, Leicester City winning the Premier League, Nottingham Forests achievement and I suppose what Aberdeen done in the the 80’s should be part of the conversation too.

 

My head's sore from getting patted...

[AJF]

5 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

You can call it relativity but in reality it’s just a very blinkered view of mediocrity. To extreme degrees. 

I don’t think it’s blinkered, I just feel mediocrity is not a set baseline that applies to all equally.

Your comment that we haven’t experienced “true” mediocrity is interesting. What is “true” mediocrity and how do you measure it?

Would finishing 8th or 9th in the Premiership be considered “true” mediocrity? If so, should the situation ever arise where Rangers finished 8th and Stirling Albion finished 9th, as an example, would each team be considered to have been mediocre?

I don’t think what I am saying is at all controversial or even illogical. Winning 2 domestic trophies since our promotion in 2016 I view as mediocre i.e. average or not very good. This is not entitlement or being blinkered, it’s simply measuring performance criteria relatively against the team I support.

[AJF]

12 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Again, your standards of mediocrity are hugely different from the 10 other top flight teams,

That has been the point I’ve been making all along.

Different teams view mediocrity differently than others. That is not questionable or controversial, IMO.

[Dons_1988]

2 minutes ago, AJF said:

I don’t think it’s blinkered, I just feel mediocrity is not a set baseline that applies to all equally.

Your comment that we haven’t experienced “true” mediocrity is interesting. What is “true” mediocrity and how do you measure it?

Would finishing 8th or 9th in the Premiership be considered “true” mediocrity? If so, should the situation ever arise where Rangers finished 8th and Stirling Albion finished 9th, as an example, would each team be considered to have been mediocre?

I don’t think what I am saying is at all controversial or even illogical. Winning 2 domestic trophies since our promotion in 2016 I view as mediocre i.e. average or not very good. This is not entitlement or being blinkered, it’s simply measuring performance criteria relatively against the team I support.

I mean, all you’re really telling me is that old firm fans live in their own version of reality, which is not news to this thread. 

[AJF]

Just now, Dons_1988 said:

I mean, all you’re really telling me is that old firm fans live in their own version of reality, which is not news to this thread. 

With respect, that’s not what I am saying. So I’ll take a step back.

[gannonball]

1 minute ago, AJF said:

I don’t think it’s blinkered, I just feel mediocrity is not a set baseline that applies to all equally.

Your comment that we haven’t experienced “true” mediocrity is interesting. What is “true” mediocrity and how do you measure it?

Would finishing 8th or 9th in the Premiership be considered “true” mediocrity? If so, should the situation ever arise where Rangers finished 8th and Stirling Albion finished 9th, as an example, would each team be considered to have been mediocre?

I don’t think what I am saying is at all controversial or even illogical. Winning 2 domestic trophies since our promotion in 2016 I view as mediocre i.e. average or not very good. This is not entitlement or being blinkered, it’s simply measuring performance criteria relatively against the team I support.

There is no consistency on here, Rangers have generally been laughed at on here for underperforming so badly  (in general) past decade yet say you have been mediocre is somehow entitlement? I general go off a teams budget as to how they should perform and you are right in saying Rangers return from that has been mediocre. 

[Dons_1988]

1 minute ago, AJF said:

With respect, that’s not what I am saying. So I’ll take a step back.

You’re saying every fan base measures mediocrity differently. And that a league title, a Scottish cup, a europa league final, a season in the champions league groups and going into 95% of domestic games expecting to win is mediocrity. 

So, it kind of is what you’re saying. 

[bennett]

54 minutes ago, Desp said:

Rangers' fans couldn't give a shit if they're battering Motherwell or Montrose every week.  The entitlement they have just needs wins by Rangers.

It's funny how the only season on their journey where the crowds at Ibrox went down dramatically was 2014/15, when they ended up finishing 3rd and ragdolled from the Edinburgh sides.  I'm sure they'll carp on about boardroom protests and the likes, but they weren't dominating like they were used to, and a big f**k off amount of fans couldn't handle it.

Getting rid of an unpopular board which had been made up of quite a few unsavoury characters, as well seeing Mike Ashley trying to take control of the club by installing his puppets.

 

 

 

 

 

[LIVIFOREVER]

16 minutes ago, AJF said:

That has been the point I’ve been making all along.

Different teams view mediocrity differently than others. That is not questionable or controversial, IMO.

Agree with you yep, but playing in a far tougher league would drop your fans down to our level of mediocrity, the question is, how would they handle it when they've never had to experience not winning games most of the time. Could they accept finishing mid table 2 or 3 seasons running, or even lower, and hitting spells where you didn't win a game for 8 weeks, that could very well be the level of mediocrity they had to get used to.

[TheScarf]

There's no way in fuck Celtic and Rangers fans would stick with them if they started losing a lot more games and not winning leagues and cups.  IE in some form of European league. All of them under the age of 50 have seen constant success and their brains would explode if they didn't win anything for 5,10,15 years.  Their level of maturity towards their club is infantile.