Bing.McCrosby Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 I hope he gets called up now just for the seeth 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virtual Insanity Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 Another car crash thread. At the risk of becoming involved, is the benefit of staying at Liverpool over the break not fairly limited if most of their players are on international duty? I'd imagine any first team players not on international duty would be doing relatively light training too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Algebraist Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Virtual Insanity said: Another car crash thread. At the risk of becoming involved, is the benefit of staying at Liverpool over the break not fairly limited if most of their players are on international duty? I'd imagine any first team players not on international duty would be doing relatively light training too. Virtual insanity. Edited August 16, 2023 by The Algebraist 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Virtual Insanity said: is the benefit of staying at Liverpool over the break not fairly limited if most of their players are on international duty? I'd imagine any first team players not on international duty would be doing relatively light training too. From a fan perspective it's difficult to estimate the opportunity cost, it's the realm of speculation and opinion which isn't helpful. It's clear from previous examples (Lewis Ferguson) that an opportunity cost can exist and sometimes it's preferable for a player to be left out to focus on their club career. Isn't optimization for their club career a justification previously given and accepted to miss U-21 games by Doak and Hickey previously? It would seem reasonable for it to go the other way in my view. Edited August 16, 2023 by 2426255 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSJ.84 Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 (edited) If he’s called up - great. It’ll be good for him to get the experience of being away in a full international camp and work with the manager who’ll (hopefully) be in charge when he’s ready to become an important part of that team. If he’s not - no harm done. His time will come eventually. Some right sanctimonious pish being spouted on here just because people have a different opinion from their own. Edited August 16, 2023 by PSJ.84 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Blood Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 15 minutes ago, PSJ.84 said: If he’s called up - great. It’ll be good for him to get the experience of being away in a full international camp and work with the manager who’ll (hopefully) be in charge when he’s ready to become an important part of that team. If he’s not - no harm done. His time will come eventually. Some right sanctimonious pish being spouted on here just because people have a different opinion from their own. This exactly. Other than in the unlikely event that he gets injured whilst away with us, there is no downside. This isn't the Euros squad, so he doesn't have to replace someone. Especially since we have friendlies coming up. He can just come along as an extra and get to know the core of the squad that he'll (probably) be spending a lot of time with in the future. His teammate and Scotland captain will keep him grounded (if that were a concern) I'll fully understand why Clarke won't call him up in the next squad, or even the one after that. But I'm pretty certain he will be in the Euros squad. Gilmour and Patterson didn't have much more experience than Doak has now when they were called up. They weren't much older either. (Doak will be 18 by then) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 18 minutes ago, PSJ.84 said: If he’s called up - great. It’ll be good for him to get the experience of being away in a full international camp and work with the manager who’ll (hopefully) be in charge when he’s ready to become an important part of that team. If he’s not - no harm done. His time will come eventually. Some right sanctimonious pish being spouted on here just because people have a different opinion from their own. Thats the thing that always gets me, can we not talk about football and disagree without labeling each other mental and insane. It must be a bizarre and unproductive way to live your life. As it happens I disagree with you, I think the time is already here for him to be making an impact for us. Like most folk tho ill not be jumping up and down if he is or isn't called up. But the way he's going I think its imminent either way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Tartan Blood said: This exactly. Other than in the unlikely event that he gets injured whilst away with us, there is no downside. The trade off of going away with Scotland is what he misses at Liverpool. So that's a potential downside which is the reason Doak chose not to play for the under-21s and Lewis Ferguson was not selected in September 2022. Edited August 16, 2023 by 2426255 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jives Miguel Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 Tips on how to live a productive life from the gentleman who averages 6000 posts a day arguing with people. The Andrew Tate of the TA Forum -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Sensible Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 6 hours ago, Jives Miguel said: I bet you've never even seen the boy play. Yeh, I’ve found it difficult to see Liverpool in action Could you advise how I could watch them? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Tartan Blood said: He can just come along as an extra and get to know the core of the squad that he'll (probably) be spending a lot of time with in the future. Steve Clarke historically doesn't just bring players along for the sake of it as extras. He is well known for keeping the squad small and not needlessly disrupting the players in their club careers often to the frustration of fans if they aren't going to play a part. Edited August 16, 2023 by 2426255 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Sensible Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 6 hours ago, Jives Miguel said: The main reason he's seeing minutes is because he's a very promising young player who needs gametime to develop 13 minutes to go against Chelsea, 1-1 away from home and Klopp decided to take off Salah and Diaz just because Doak needs some game time to develop 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jives Miguel Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 Just now, Captain_Sensible said: 13 minutes to go against Chelsea, 1-1 away from home and Klopp decided to take off Salah and Diaz just because Doak needs some game time to develop 5 minutes ago, Captain_Sensible said: Yeh, I’ve found it difficult to see Liverpool in action Could you advise how I could watch them? These are the only bits of the post you are able to reply to? Ooft. I accept your concession. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Sensible Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 6 hours ago, Jives Miguel said: You really think sitting on the bench against Cyprus is going to be the difference between him making it and not making it I think that having Doak as an option off the bench might be the difference between Scotland getting out of the game or not. Its more Scotland’s development I’m thinking about. And of Klopp thinks he’s “gOod EnoUgH foR liVErpoOL’ then I reckon he might be good enough for Scotland 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Sensible Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, Jives Miguel said: These are the only bits of the post you are able to reply to? Ooft. I accept your concession. The rest of it was utter shite. I’m laughing at it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 30 minutes ago, Jives Miguel said: Tips on how to live a productive life from the gentleman who averages 6000 posts a day arguing with people. The Andrew Tate of the TA Forum You keep posting as if you know me and I know you, I dont know you. Your quite a new poster so im assuming your a previously banned one. Your angry style could be one of any number 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedingums Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 There’s this thing that happens on this board, and in particular when it comes to this subject of upcoming players, where people will mistake ‘realism’ or ‘pragmatism’ for pessimism and then paint themselves and their realism as making them cleverer than the other posters. Doak has clearly done enough for at least a call up to the squad. He featured in every pre-season match for Liverpool, scored and has now been kept with the first team squad and put in as a sub for one of the best players in the world when his team needed a goal. His manager obviously rates him. Added to that, after every game he plays the Liverpool fans are raving about him, so it’s not just tartan army desperation. All that being said, I won’t be majorly disappointed if he’s not called up in the upcoming window. Scotland have been playing really well. I’d be very surprised if he doesn’t make a squad this season, though. In fact, best possible scenario could be that we beat Cyprus, get the qualification in the bag and then that gives Clarke an opportunity to look at a couple of players. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jives Miguel Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Captain_Sensible said: I think that having Doak as an option off the bench might be the difference between Scotland getting out of the game or not. Its more Scotland’s development I’m thinking about. And of Klopp thinks he’s “gOod EnoUgH foR liVErpoOL’ then I reckon he might be good enough for Scotland refer to: 14 minutes ago, Jives Miguel said: I accept your concession. You can stop now. Edited August 16, 2023 by Jives Miguel 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 (edited) 55 minutes ago, bleedingums said: There’s this thing that happens on this board, and in particular when it comes to this subject of upcoming players, where people will mistake ‘realism’ or ‘pragmatism’ for pessimism and then paint themselves and their realism as making them cleverer than the other posters. I think it's more the hype that drives this kind of conversation. I can't remember seeing the same with other promising younger Scottish players such as Hickey, Patterson, Doig, Ramsay, Ferguson or Turnbull. I could be wrong about that as I'm not across all of it especially as the years go back, but this thread and the Gilmour thread seem more comparable than with other young players who are less hyped but equally talented. I don't think posters are trying to make themselves look clever just trying to argue things how they see it. Edited August 16, 2023 by 2426255 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Blood Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 1 hour ago, 2426255 said: I think it's more the hype that drives this kind of conversation. I can't remember seeing the same with other promising younger Scottish players such as Hickey, Patterson, Doig, Ramsay, Ferguson or Turnbull. I could be wrong about that as I'm not across all of it especially as the years go back, but this thread and the Gilmour thread seem more comparable than with other young players who are less hyped but equally talented. I don't think posters are trying to make themselves look clever just trying to argue things how they see it. Context is very important in the hype levels though. The big difference is Gilmour was getting a game in his teens at Champions League winners, Chelsea. Turnbull was getting a game for Motherwell, Ferguson - Aberdeen, Hickey - Hearts, Ramsay - Aberdeen, Doig - Hibs. No disrespect to those teams, but the players you have to supplant are of a vastly different calibre. Patterson was for Rangers, which isn't quite Chelsea, but there was definitely plenty of hype around him. The 2 others I can think of that are comparable were Gauld and Burke. But even they weren't being picked at world class teams. You can bet if Hepburn or Morrison had been subbed on for Bayern, they'd be getting the same treatment as Doak and Gilmour. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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