Scottish Budget Day

[invergowrie arab]

15 minutes ago, Aufc said:

I agree. However, regarding the NHS, at some point they are going to need to address some of the issues facing it rather than just relying on increasing taxes. 

Sort of.

Many of the underlying issues that affect the NHS should be tackled at source instead of at the sharp end, I would agree with that.

That's where we should be investing our resources and a low tax economy shouldn't be the ultimate end game. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by invergowrie arab

[Aufc]

5 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

The majority of the issues with the NHS are related to underfunding,  how do you address that without taxes?

VT kinda explains my point above but in a much more forward way. Things like obesity costs the NHS billions directly and indirectly yet we don’t seem to actually want to try and address this for fear of offending people. I have no problems with paying higher taxes to provide decent public services, however, it frustrates me that we also don’t look at it from another angle as per above.

imagine we had higher taxes and addressed issues like obesity head on. Our health service and public services would flourish. 
 

 

[vikingTON]

1 minute ago, invergowrie arab said:

Sort of.

Many of the underlying issues that affect the NHS should be tackled at source instead of at the sharp end, I would agree with that.

That's where we should be investing our resources and a low tax economy shouldn't be the ultimate end game. 

How could Scotland invest its way out of poor health alone though? Replacing crap housing, removing urban air pollution and reducing general societal stress (possible benefit of a UBI) would help for sure, but poverty or lack of education doesn't explain obesity in our context. 

[Aufc]

I also see the Scottish government are under fire for overstaying the actual cash terms increase in the budget. It’s not just a Scottish government issue to be fair but a UK wide reporting issue. By the sounds of it, councils are going to have to make some hard decisions regarding funding for some public services. Instead of a 1.9% increase it’s a 1.6% decrease

[invergowrie arab]

3 minutes ago, virginton said:

How could Scotland invest its way out of poor health alone though? Replacing crap housing, removing urban air pollution and reducing general societal stress (possible benefit of a UBI) would help for sure, but poverty or lack of education doesn't explain obesity in our context. 

You are asking the wrong person. You will prise my MSG, salt, bread and lager out of my cold dead hands.

I dont know the answer but hopefully the requirement of the Good Food Nation.Act of every local authority to have a food plan will help.

It needs a mixture of education (re-education - eat fish FFs), equipment (slow cookers), access to good food and better mental health.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

6 minutes ago, Aufc said:

I also see the Scottish government are under fire for overstaying the actual cash terms increase in the budget. It’s not just a Scottish government issue to be fair but a UK wide reporting issue. By the sounds of it, councils are going to have to make some hard decisions regarding funding for some public services. Instead of a 1.9% increase it’s a 1.6% decrease

Quite a few local Councils will be going into special measures in 2023 imo.

Mine has to find £27million in savings in the coming financial year and £71million over three years, which is pretty much impossible. Frontline services will be cut to the bone or simply not provided any more. To be fair this isn't (in our case) solely down to government underfunding. We've been chronically mismanaged by an utterly hopeless Chief Executive(s) and Directorate since about 2008. 

There will doubtless be shouts for volunteers for ER/VR. I'll be taking VR as soon as fucking possible. I'll quite happily trouser a large redundancy payment and should pick up an equivalent post in the third sector without too much of an issue. 

[invergowrie arab]

Also i think housing policy has been massively overlooked as a public health issue.

We build huge estates where people literally need to get into cars even to get tatties.

Where people live in town and cities and need to walk for half hour a day to get essentials would massively improve public health.

I'll admit I'm massively smug at choosing a 2 bed semi within 20 mins walk of pubs, shops, doctors, chemists, cafes instead of paying 80k more to live on some edge of town hell hole. 

[vikingTON]

15 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

You are asking the wrong person. You will prise my MSG, salt, bread and lager out of my cold dead hands.

I dont know the answer but hopefully the requirement of the Good Food Nation.Act of every local authority to have a food plan will help.

It needs a mixture of education (re-education - eat fish FFs), equipment (slow cookers), access to good food and better mental health.

I'm sorry, but the idea that Scotland or the UK has lacked access to good food at affordable prices in the past twenty years is nonsense. Staple goods like pasta/rice and bog-standard vegetables have been far, far cheaper than ready meal equivalents - and far cheaper than anywhere in Europe either. 

Education is not the key causal factor - how much more education does a population need (in general) than Scotland in 2022, to take basic responsibility for what they're shovelling into their trap every night? 

While there are still some public good benefits from extra investment to be had, the problem won't actually be addressed until we start hitting people directly in the wallet for the costs that they're directly imposing on the collective health service. Subsiding access to a slow cooker is not that. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by vikingTON

[invergowrie arab]

3 minutes ago, Benjamin_Nevis said:

Quite a few local Councils will be going into special measures in 2023 imo.

Mine has to find £27million in savings in the coming financial year and £71million over three years, which is pretty much impossible. Frontline services will be cut to the bone or simply not provided any more. To be fair this isn't (in our case) solely down to government underfunding. We've been chronically mismanaged by an utterly hopeless Chief Executive(s) and Directorate since about 2008. 

There will doubtless be shouts for volunteers for ER/VR. I'll be taking VR as soon as fucking possible. I'll quite happily trouser a large redundancy payment and should pick up an equivalent post in the third sector without too much of an issue. 

Problem is VR /VER is a false economy. Saves LAs money in the short term but the posts and by extension the services are lost.

[vikingTON]

12 minutes ago, Benjamin_Nevis said:

Quite a few local Councils will be going into special measures in 2023 imo.

Mine has to find £27million in savings in the coming financial year and £71million over three years, which is pretty much impossible. Frontline services will be cut to the bone or simply not provided any more. To be fair this isn't (in our case) solely down to government underfunding. We've been chronically mismanaged by an utterly hopeless Chief Executive(s) and Directorate since about 2008. 

There will doubtless be shouts for volunteers for ER/VR. I'll be taking VR as soon as fucking possible. I'll quite happily trouser a large redundancy payment and should pick up an equivalent post in the third sector without too much of an issue. 

Inverclyde Council were explicitly warned by their financial officers back in February that their budget had a yawning black hole in it. Not one party group even raised - never mind explained - how they planned to address this crisis, prior to the council elections in May. In which several councillors were returned because nobody else stood in their multi-member wards. Now the elected council are guilt-tripping about the brutal cuts, that they knew fine well would be coming down the chute before they got their four year pay cheque. 

While there's no doubt that the local authority settlement is fucking them over, the complete absence of transparency or democratic accountability is risible.  

Edited December 16, 2022 by vikingTON

[invergowrie arab]

Just now, virginton said:

I'm sorry, but the idea that Scotland or the UK has lacked access to good food at affordable prices in the past twenty years is nonsense. Staple goods like pasta/rice and bog-standard vegetables have been far, far cheaper than ready meal equivalents - and far cheaper than anywhere in Europe either. 

Education is not the key causal factor - how much more education does a population need (in general) than Scotland in 2022, to take basic responsibility for what they're shovelling into their trap every night? 

While there are still some public good benefits from extra investment to be had, the problem won't actually be addressed until we start hitting people directly in the wallet for the costs that they're imposing on the collective health service. Subsiding a slow cooker is not that. 

Maybe but I don't think you can divorce it from people's free time, energy and education. I'm not saying people are completely without agency but there must be a reason.

I read something interesting about the obesity epidemic in America being connected to the post war cereal industry being subsidised by the US govt and marketing the "breakfast is the most importanteal of the day' to flog useless high carb high sugar breakfast cereals, replacing high fat high protein breakfasts. Might be shite but made sense on a superficial level.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

2 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

Problem is VR /VER is a false economy. Saves LAs money in the short term but the posts and by extension the services are lost.

We're non-statutory although we've been in a strong position for years because local CAB provision is shite and they don't provide appeal representation anyway. Indeed after nicking the funding from LAs for Universal Credit Help to Claim, the cheeky b*****ds are just running it as a phone line. We're fucked anyway unless there is massive change at the top and they'll be hanging on for dear life until they're pensioned off. 

They been holding info sessions for employees looking for ideas. Colour me stunned that ideas involving trimming the number of Chief Officers aren't part of that conversation. 

 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

3 minutes ago, virginton said:

Inverclyde Council were explicitly warned by their financial officers back in February that their budget had a yawning black hole in it. Not one party group even raised - never mind explained - how they planned to address this crisis, prior to the council elections in May. In which several councillors were returned because nobody else stood in their multi-member wards. Now the elected council are guilt-tripping about the brutal cuts, that they knew fine well would be coming down the chute before they got their four year pay cheque. 

While there's no doubt that the local authority settlement is fucking them over, the complete absence of transparency or democratic accountability is risible.  

Similar here. Councillors by and large are utter morons and monumentally out of their depth. I found myself watching a youTube vid of a recent full Council meeting where they were told about the financial fuckdom incoming and no one had a clue on how to address it (BTW I only watched it because one of the fucking buffoons had a complete tantrum and stormed out )

Our new intake was less awful than last time. Let's face it, NOT having the ever-useless Braden fucking Davy is always a bonus. 

[parsforlife]

Obesity and other conditions related to lifestyle conditions are an interesting discussion.  For me it’s not really up to government to legislate against it completely,  if someone wants to live a life where they die younger that’s completely up to them.  

I think we should be looking at aiming for a system where you pay reasonable amount of additional tax based on lifestyle, but remember unhealthy lifestyle choices result on early deaths, resulting in lower pension and care costs.

I think the state should provide education about lifestyle choices and resources such as mental health or drug addiction recovery,  how much further they go is questionable 

Edited December 17, 2022 by parsforlife

[vikingTON]

1 minute ago, invergowrie arab said:

Maybe but I don't think you can divorce it from people's free time, energy and education. I'm not saying people are completely without agency but there must be a reason.

I agree that something like UBI would have significant knock-on benefits in healthcare costs because of this.

But it's not enough or necessary to have UBI to bring about that change. If Scottish (or any other) people had the outcomes of too many king kebabs directly and strongly linked to their annual tax bill, then they would respond accordingly. And because income tax tapers off towards the bottom, it is far less regressive than imposing consumption taxes on everyone that don't address the actual problem. 

[vikingTON]

Just now, parsforlife said:

I think we should be looking at aiming for a system where you pay reasonable amount of additional tax based on lifestyle, but remember unhealthy lifestyle choices result on early deaths, resulting in lower pension and care costs.

That's an interesting point, but I'd be surprised if the overall cost of healthcare/economic inactivity from chronic ill health didn't work out higher than pensions 'saved' from folk in Calton or Port Glasgow croaking it at 60. 

That doesn't mean that a government should operate on a coercive, maximum value extraction principle, but I'm not convinced that the NHS is actually doing better overall by not just taxing fatties. 

[invergowrie arab]

We need to change our mentality around food. After getting fucked off with tesco continually raising food prices I started going to the nearest farm and buying a months worth of tatties and eggs for 7 quid.

Have saved loads and lost a stone in weight.

We have a reallt weird mentality where that is both a poverty diet and somehow also middle class as f**k.

We should be saying that fritatas and scrambled egg and toast are quite nice.

I still have a once a week grill box or pizza. 

 

[invergowrie arab]

17 minutes ago, Benjamin_Nevis said:

We're non-statutory although we've been in a strong position for years because local CAB provision is shite and they don't provide appeal representation anyway. Indeed after nicking the funding from LAs for Universal Credit Help to Claim, the cheeky b*****ds are just running it as a phone line. We're fucked anyway unless there is massive change at the top and they'll be hanging on for dear life until they're pensioned off. 

They been holding info sessions for employees looking for ideas. Colour me stunned that ideas involving trimming the number of Chief Officers aren't part of that conversation. 

 

Angus were quite early adopters of getting rid of senior management. In my time there they moved from 7 to 5 to 2 directorates.

I think we we will end up with another iteration of the regions.

TBF no earthly reason why Angus, Dundee, PKC and Fife need their own HR, payroll, senior managers etc That could all be consolidated 

[vikingTON]

Inverclyde and West Dunbartonshire (the Tweedledum and Tweedledee of diddy councils) are already exploring the 'rationalisation' of payroll and management. Which tbf is far preferable to closing down the central library or switching off street lights overnight* like it's the 1991 Soviet Union. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* These are legitimate, cost-cutting proposals. 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

2 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

Angus were quite early adopters of getting rid of senior management. In my time there they moved from 7 to 5 to 2 directorates.

I think we we will end up with another iteration of the regions.

TBF no earthly reason why Angus, Dundee, PKC and Fife need their own HR, payroll, senior managers etc That could all be consolidated 

I think those numbers have crept back up. Apparently we have more Chief Officers than Aberdeenshire which is fucking mental when you consider the geography involved. Housing has basically fallen apart since a disastrous restructure was implemented and HQ has an all-too-large cohort of fuckwits who seem to think they work for Google. It's a total shambles of a place.