Next permanent Scotland manager

[Londonwell]

5 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Hmmm, I seem to remember when Big Ange Postecoglou was being regarded as a fifth-choice fanny, and yet here we are.  Sometimes we don't always get the candidates we would like, and sometimes the ones we don't rise above our expectations.

On that basis I could maybe hold my nose very tightly and see if Forbes can stop the good ship SNP crashing itself fully onto the rocks of electoral doom.

But meantime, share your alternative with us.

Hate to keep repeating myself, but I’m not sure how some people can’t see this. Kate would be an absolute disaster of epic proportions. Humza is the best of two bad options. 

[Trogdor]

When you realise Humza may be the best option...

[Boo Khaki]

Was trying to think last week of who it was Forbes reminded me of, and aye, right enough, it's Kezia Dugdale. She just gives off the same vibe of being liable to land herself in a shitstorm of her own doing every single time she opens her mouth, and being nowhere near astute enough to recognise when she's being dragged into pointless, petty bunfights she'd be better off avoiding altogether.

Humza still inspires no confidence really, but I agree with the earlier sentiment that spending another few years standing stock still and going nowhere is still infinitely preferable to potentially losing a huge chunk of your vote because your party leader is an easily manipulated loose cannon.

She could learn a lot from Nicola Sturgeon, specifically that rather than entertaining much of the pish thrown at her by the media and political opponents, trying to explain and justify the reasons for your disagreement often just serves to legitimise the pish itself, and it's often far more sensible and expedient to just shut it down by ridiculing the premise or replying with a unambivalent and concise one word answer.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

32 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

Was trying to think last week of who it was Forbes reminded me of, and aye, right enough, it's Kezia Dugdale. She just gives off the same vibe of being liable to land herself in a shitstorm of her own doing every single time she opens her mouth, and being nowhere near astute enough to recognise when she's being dragged into pointless, petty bunfights she'd be better off avoiding altogether.

Humza still inspires no confidence really, but I agree with the earlier sentiment that spending another few years standing stock still and going nowhere is still infinitely preferable to potentially losing a huge chunk of your vote because your party leader is an easily manipulated loose cannon.

She could learn a lot from Nicola Sturgeon, specifically that rather than entertaining much of the pish thrown at her by the media and political opponents, trying to explain and justify the reasons for your disagreement often just serves to legitimise the pish itself, and it's often far more sensible and expedient to just shut it down by ridiculing the premise or replying with a unambivalent and concise one word answer.

She'd be an absolute fucking liability. That's something like three times now she's turned in a clown/minefield performance and that's without even factoring in opposition politicians. 

I can't believe we're at the stage where Humza is considered s shout because it will be the least disastrous of the three options. Either way i think we can safely confine independence to the bin for at least 7-10 years. 

[renton]

6 hours ago, Benjamin_Nevis said:

She'd be an absolute fucking liability. That's something like three times now she's turned in a clown/minefield performance and that's without even factoring in opposition politicians. 

I can't believe we're at the stage where Humza is considered s shout because it will be the least disastrous of the three options. Either way i think we can safely confine independence to the bin for at least 7-10 years. 

I'm trying to figure out what a good option looks like? Nicola Sturgeon has an almost unique ability to speak to folk on a human level that puts her heads and shoulders above pretty much 99% of all other politicians, a leader as much as anything else.

Not sure we can really be surprised the rest aren't in the same league. Yousaf and Forbes shouldn't be condemned for merely being politicians. I don't even think Yousaf is that bad a politician. He gives a reasonably cogent, polished talking point, knows how to get through a debate and has a survival instinct. People can debate his track record at various departments but I'd ask who was the last good cabinet minister in any of the UK Parliaments?

If all political careers end in failure then cabinet ministers are the perfect example. You get 18 months to 2 years sitting in a department trying to deliver programmes that need 5 or 10 year periods to mature. If any of them deliver anything it is almost pure luck to be sitting in the seat when the civil service gets round to administering a policy.

Forbes isn't Dugdale. She's Truss. She's got it in her head that she has a unique vision that the country needs. Yet She's not given any thought as to how her vision is supposed to keep the current SNP voting bloc together while she goes out to pull in centrist/right wing votes. 

In some ways her straight talking should give her an advantage and be an electoral asset that if you squinted at it in the right light might look Sturgeonesque, but it's not combined with a good instinct. She blunders into discussions she can't subsequently control and doesn't therefore make that good a fist of making the point. She may well be better than Yousaf if it came to policy delivery in a technical sense, but not in terms of maintaining popular consent as far as I can see.

Regan is barely much more than her tartan jacket costume.

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by renton

[sophia]

8 hours ago, Londonwell said:

Hate to keep repeating myself, but I’m not sure how some people can’t see this. Kate would be an absolute disaster of epic proportions. Humza is the best of two bad options. 

You are repeating yourself but whilst you use such hyperbolic language, you should have the self awareness to understand why you might be coming from a place with just a dash of subjectivity 

[Dunning1874]

7 hours ago, Benjamin_Nevis said:

Either way i think we can safely confine independence to the bin for at least 7-10 years. 

While it's easy to point to this as a failing of the SNP, and there have been failings, they could have maintained a flawless strategy over several years that pushed support to consistently 60%+ and this would still be the case regardless. If you have a UK government absolutely set on intransigence no matter what by simply saying no to a referendum regardless of how undemocratic that stance is, it's wishful thinking to suggest the SNP can somehow strategise their way to independence from that position if they simply change their tactics.

Until such time as there's a hung parliament with the SNP having the seats to be kingmakers, this isn't changing.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

1 minute ago, Dunning1874 said:

While it's easy to point to this as a failing of the SNP, and there have been failings, they could have maintained a flawless strategy over several years that pushed support to consistently 60%+ and this would still be the case regardless. If you have a UK government absolutely set on intransigence no matter what by simply saying no to a referendum regardless of how undemocratic that stance is, it's wishful thinking to suggest the SNP can somehow strategise their way to independence from that position if they simply change their tactics.

Until such time as there's a hung parliament with the SNP having the seats to be kingmakers, this isn't changing.

I think we've effectively gone from a faint hope to absolutely none, obviously a new leader devoid of charisma is a large part of that, but longer term I think the Alba nutbags have poisoned the well somewhat also. 

[Paco]

Events can change everything. I’m not suggesting any of Scottish Labour’s leaders have been a reincarnated Donald Dewar, but who’d have thought a privately educated millionaire like Sarwar with a bit of a speech impediment would be the man to lead a Scottish Labour revival? Keir Starmer is at best a beige candidate who won’t do very much and is currently polling better numbers than Blair’s landslide in 1997. 

The next First Minister might just land with a hung parliament, or more likely they’re so inept that granting a referendum becomes a tempting option for the UK Government. Either would be closer than under Sturgeon’s leadership because despite what plenty seem to think, there is essentially nothing a Scottish First Minister can actually do to achieve independence. Sturgeon has tried all the legal routes and failed. 

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

The support for independence isn't there anyway. It might be in 10 years. Good chance of it.

[Jacksgranda]

10 hours ago, sophia said:

And Humza?

Is he being held to the same high standard or is he getting a free pass?

What is he offering?

 

 

Continuity. Have you not been paying attention?

[Londonwell]

2 hours ago, sophia said:

You are repeating yourself but whilst you use such hyperbolic language, you should have the self awareness to understand why you might be coming from a place with just a dash of subjectivity 

Not at all. I actually quite like Kate personally (which I’m sure I’ve stated before) and I don’t know Humza at all. 

[Londonwell]

3 hours ago, renton said:

Forbes isn't Dugdale. She's Truss. She's got it in her head that she has a unique vision that the country needs. Yet She's not given any thought as to how her vision is supposed to keep the current SNP voting bloc together while she goes out to pull in centrist/right wing votes. 

Give this man a prize. Nail on head.

I’m actually coming round to the idea, you may call it wishful thinking, that if Humza surrounds himself with the right people he might be ok. They can keep him out of trouble until such time that he’s capable in the job.

One of NS biggest problems was that her circle of people she trusted was so wee. She was a control freak. But for the most part her competency led to good governance. A bit of a different approach from Humza and it might not be as bad as people think. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Londonwell

[welshbairn]

I think a better strategy would have been for Sweeney to have taken over as acting FM during a lengthier nomination process, allowing no hopers to be filtered out and new challengers to emerge, maybe including from Westminster as has happened before.

[Londonwell]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I think a better strategy would have been for Sweeney to have taken over as acting FM during a lengthier nomination process, allowing no hopers to be filtered out and new challengers to emerge, maybe including from Westminster as has happened before.

Swinney? He’s facing some of his own problems which would make that impossible. 
 

I think some blame really does have to lie at NS door tbh. Complete failure to prepare people for the job of leading a government and then deciding she’s had enough at the drop of a hat and leaving the party in a bit of a shit show.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, Londonwell said:

Swinney? He’s facing some of his own problems which would make that impossible. 
 

I think some blame really does have to lie at NS door tbh. Complete failure to prepare people for the job of leading a government and then deciding she’s had enough at the drop of a hat and leaving the party in a bit of a shit show.

Not necessarily Sweeney, just somebody to hold the fort for two or three months. Ideally Sturgeon would have announced her resignation a bit later, allowing the campaign to take place over the summer when usually not much is going on. This has been far too rushed.

[Londonwell]

13 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Not necessarily Sweeney, just somebody to hold the fort for two or three months. Ideally Sturgeon would have announced her resignation a bit later, allowing the campaign to take place over the summer when usually not much is going on. This has been far too rushed.

I’d like to know the reason Robertson isn’t involved. There’s more to that one, I’m sure. 

[welshbairn]

15 minutes ago, Londonwell said:

I’d like to know the reason Robertson isn’t involved. There’s more to that one, I’m sure. 

Could fucking up the Census have anything to do with it?

[Wee-Bey]

 

[welshbairn]

Ross and Sarwar nearly exclusively quoting Kate Forbes at FMQ's, as expected.