Steve Clarke - in/out/general discussion

[RedLichtie86]

19 minutes ago, Willie adie said:

Clarke may well fall into  the same trap that Strachan and Brown and Roxburgh fell into.

Showing  too much loyalty 

He fell into that trap a long time ago.

[2426255]

2 hours ago, Bing.McCrosby said:

Jesus, big picture

What we have been building for is this, right now. Clarkes been in charge a long time, this is the European championship. This is what we've been working towards for a long time. There isn't a tournament right after this one.

He's got 2 games to turn it around, I still think he can. But if he doesn't I think he will walk himself, as he strikes me of a guy with integrity.

Let's be honest this squad had maybe 1 more tournament, at most 2. At the end of this tournament we need to decide what's best for us, not what's best for the manager.

Changing the manager won't change the talent pool available. That's the point. Why do some like setting maximum performance as the minimum expectation? We have good players, but we also have some average ones too that will make errors at this level. The manager has done well by and large with this group of players and even if if it ultimately proves to be a step beyond the teams capabilities to become a pot-one team, a change of manager is not going to make a significant difference. That's the reality.

Wouldn't be surprised if he walked given the intense nature of the job, but he won't be sacked by the SFA imo. The mood of the nation will change if we get a better result in our next match. That's all they can focus on. Something you've fallen foul of enough times tbf.

[RedLichtie86]

Until Scotland, the SFA, SPFL, individual clubs and government all collectively agree on a plan to invest in youth player development then players good enough and available to any Scotland manager is going to be very limited.

When Germany had a horror show in Euro 2000 they all got together and decided that they needed to make major changes to how they operate. And it worked.

Obviously we cant produce the amount of players that Germany can but surely we are able to produce better than what we do currently. And have more options.

[SpoonTon]

I sent a message off the back of seeing the lineup last night and, relating to some of the bigger calls, wrote, 'not sure about that.' So, of course, I'm going to be unhappy with Clarke when I went as I feared it would. That doesn't mean it would've been any better with the choices I would've wanted him to make, but it does leave me frustrated. My main gripe with Clarke's system over the years it that it can leave us exposed between midfield and defence.

The players give us a massive issue. We lack quality. But we lacked organisation, concentration and discipline - and some of that has to be on the manager. 

[Fratelli]

There’s been far too much dismissing of our results and performances post qualification imo. We’ve been terrible, and you can’t just turn it off and on. One or two dodgy performances in amongst a sea of positive ones? Maybe - but there’s been a trend here.  The constant ‘ach qualified for two tournaments and folk are moaning???’ After those results reeked of just being happy to be there.

[Need2Speak2Caesar]

Don't know what happened last night, I am still shell-shocked.

Can you really blame Clarke because the whole team just lay down and died, though he did get our tactics wrong to be honest.

The jury is still out for me.

[Binos]

8 minutes ago, RedLichtie86 said:

Until Scotland, the SFA, SPFL, individual clubs and government all collectively agree on a plan to invest in youth player development then players good enough and available to any Scotland manager is going to be very limited.

When Germany had a horror show in Euro 2000 they all got together and decided that they needed to make major changes to how they operate. And it worked.

Obviously we cant produce the amount of players that Germany can but surely we are able to produce better than what we do currently. And have more options.

Stopped reading at ......the SFA, SPFL, individual clubs and government all collectively agree

[RedLichtie86]

3 minutes ago, Binos said:

Stopped reading at ......the SFA, SPFL, individual clubs and government all collectively agree

So did the SFA, SPFL, individual clubs and government.

[Deanburn Dave]

The manager can only do so much with the calibre of players that are currently available.  He sets up the formation and gives basic instructions but tactically there's a limit on what he can do.

The back 5 were 10 yards too deep.  Our middle 4 were in a line too far from our defence trying to block passes down the middle of the pitch.  Was it Clarke's intention to encourage the Germans to play down the sides  of our midfield ?.....if it was then that is bonkers.

 

 

[2426255]

The way we set up last night tactically was essentially identical to how we played Spain home and away and how we played Norway. I didn't see many complaints in approaching those games in that manner. Germany were excellent in the start of the game and our team never reached the level they needed too, but the tactical approach wasn't surprising nor was it necessarily the wrong approach. 

I've seen this said every time we get an adverse result. The manager got it wrong etc. The bottom line in this game is that we required Germany to be off it (which they weren't) and we needed to be on it (which we also weren't) and that's it for me. Even if you try to control the game with the ball it depends upon the players executing to a high standard and there's never a guarantee of that.

[Chripper]

It's time to introduce the three foreigner rule in Scottish football.

[Chripper]

23 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

The way we set up last night tactically was essentially identical to how we played Spain home and away and how we played Norway. I didn't see many complaints in approaching those games in that manner. Germany were excellent in the start of the game and our team never reached the level they needed too, but the tactical approach wasn't surprising nor was it necessarily the wrong approach. 

I've seen this said every time we get an adverse result. The manager got it wrong etc. The bottom line in this game is that we required Germany to be off it (which they weren't) and we needed to be on it (which we also weren't) and that's it for me. Even if you try to control the game with the ball it depends upon the players executing to a high standard and there's never a guarantee of that.

You're right. I just looked at the system vs France and Spain (both away) and it was identical to last night's system.

5-4-1

The thing is, against the Dutch we played 3-4-2-1 and we played better in that match than the aforementioned two.

Clarke got it drastically wrong.

Edited June 15 by SlayerX

[SpoonTon]

5 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

The way we set up last night tactically was essentially identical to how we played Spain home and away and how we played Norway. I didn't see many complaints in approaching those games in that manner. Germany were excellent in the start of the game and our team never reached the level they needed too, but the tactical approach wasn't surprising nor was it necessarily the wrong approach. 

I've seen this said every time we get an adverse result. The manager got it wrong etc. The bottom line in this game is that we required Germany to be off it (which they weren't) and we needed to be on it (which we also weren't) and that's it for me. Even if you try to control the game with the ball it depends upon the players executing to a high standard and there's never a guarantee of that.

We weren't very good in either game against Norway. The starting set up didn't serve us very well in either match. My main issue has actually always been the lack of alternative approach or plan B. We have a small pool of players - I find it strange that we always try to play the same type of team, no matter the form of players, injuries, or opponents. 

I don't particularly disagree with much of your underlying point though. I think it's fair to say that when the team isn't on it, their weaknesses in the system are exposed - and that might be true for any system. And I'm not saying that Clarke is doing a bad job. 

[paranoid android]

In Clarke's defence, his options at centre-back and right-back aren't great.

Goalies anaw. 

[Pilgrim Ranger]

Don't know if he'd take the job but David Moyes would do a decent job as Scotland manager. He'd make you resilient and hard to beat. I don't think Steve Clarke's really up to this level although he did do well to get you there.

[SpoonTon]

Gunn's been good since he came in, but his right hand let him down badly twice in the first half. Two shots he should've pushed out wide. Nothing Clarke can do about that. 

[2426255]

16 minutes ago, SpoonTon said:

We weren't very good in either game against Norway. The starting set up didn't serve us very well in either match. My main issue has actually always been the lack of alternative approach or plan B. We have a small pool of players - I find it strange that we always try to play the same type of team, no matter the form of players, injuries, or opponents. 

The manager is working within limits. We know the approach used against Germany can be very effective if the team play it well. How many times has it been seen it against the Old Firm: Kilmarnock, St Mirren used it well this year. Northern Ireland used it effectively against us and we have used it effectively previously as mentioned. It's just outcome bias to say it was the wrong approach - we all know that.

The issues facing the Scotland team won't change because we get Moyes in. He's not got a magic wand and so the solutions he finds will be similar to what's gone before. Sacking the manager isn't solving the problem, just treating a symptom.

Edited June 15 by 2426255

[Pocketman]

As well as a few other factors that contributed to our defeat, the Germans sensed we were for the taking very early on. They subsequently played with a high press and we have shown previously that we struggle to play against teams who can effectively employ a high press. No time to settle or pick out passes and get into a routine, the ball just comes back at us. Hope neither Switzerland or Hungary go with this approach - or if they do, hope Clarke can finally come up with something to cope with it. 

[DA Baracus]

2 hours ago, Willie adie said:

Clarke may well fall into  the same trap that Strachan and Brown and Roxburgh fell into.

Showing  too much loyalty 

Agree with this. Some omissions from the squad are baffling to me and that some players haven't had more game time likewise.

 

But I'm not in the punt him camp at the moment. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

Changing the manager won't change the talent pool available. That's the point. Why do some like setting maximum performance as the minimum expectation? We have good players, but we also have some average ones too that will make errors at this level. The manager has done well by and large with this group of players and even if if it ultimately proves to be a step beyond the teams capabilities to become a pot-one team, a change of manager is not going to make a significant difference. That's the reality.

Wouldn't be surprised if he walked given the intense nature of the job, but he won't be sacked by the SFA imo. The mood of the nation will change if we get a better result in our next match. That's all they can focus on. Something you've fallen foul of enough times tbf.

That's ridiculous, changing manager can make a massive difference. If he can get thru the group he's done well. If not then I'd say he's done a reasonable job overall.

Well yeah we're all hoping he turns it around in the remaining games. If he doesn't then his results in tournament football will be pretty daming.