US Presidential Election 2024

[SandyCromarty]

On 08/03/2024 at 11:11, Florentine_Pogen said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/07/donald-trump-voter-liberals

The answer is that the Americans who support Trump are not those whom most Britons know. They are elderly and rural: they are often, but by no means solely, working class and/or non-graduates. But, above all, they love Trump because they, too, are hostile to the Americans that he purports to hate."

Not so sure about that, yes the Floridian retired snowbirds will vote Republican en mass even though it was Mickey Mouse running but there are many Americans who will vote Trump becauseof his right wing policies, America for Americans for instance.

I worked with a qualified intelligent Chief Engineer who voted Trump the first time and he will vote for him again so they are out there in all walks of life.

What we fail to understand here is that it's not Trump the idiot they vote for butt the policies he plays on

 

[TxRover]

7 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

Not so sure about that, yes the Floridian retired snowbirds will vote Republican en mass even though it was Mickey Mouse running but there are many Americans who will vote Trump becauseof his right wing policies, America for Americans for instance.

I worked with a qualified intelligent Chief Engineer who voted Trump the first time and he will vote for him again so they are out there in all walks of life.

What we fail to understand here is that it's not Trump the idiot they vote for butt the policies he plays on

 

You're missing mentioning an easy demo there, the fanatical gun owners...as paranoid a group as you'll find. The meme's a college friend shares are cringeworthy to the extreme, and hardcore pro-Trump. You have the 3% of the population that owns 50% of the guns, and the 29% overall that oppose any restrictions. Yes, that's most of the Republican base, they're about 70-75% of the Republican party.

They're also, to a great extent, exactly the ones most paranoid about the "illegal immigrants". If you want to blow their minds, bring up Reagan's amnesty, the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. Somewhere between 2.7 and 3 million "illegals" became "legal" with a wave of his hand and providing evidence they had been in the U.S. on or before January 1, 1982. But he's Saint Ronnie to them, the "shining city on the hill", the making America proud to be America again...if they can rationalize that, they can swallow anything. If you try to explain Reagan's policies to current Republican's, they'll freak out.

Oppose the Soviet Union, abolish nuclear weapons, supply weapons to Iraq, deficit spending, raised taxes 11 times, free trade and no tariffs, supported the New Deal programs, incest-rape-threats to mother life abortions were OK, signed laws prohibiting hospitals from denying healthcare to people based upon immigration status, supported gun control, appointed record numbers of women to leadership roles, mildly supportive of civil rights, opposed discrimination against homosexuals and signed a law prohibiting blocking gay teachers while stating it was NOT a choice. Yea, Ronnie was a RINO, eh?

[Cheese]

Yeah, The Democrats are the Reganites now.

[SandyCromarty]

16 hours ago, TxRover said:

You're missing mentioning an easy demo there, the fanatical gun owners...as paranoid a group as you'll find. The meme's a college friend shares are cringeworthy to the extreme, and hardcore pro-Trump. You have the 3% of the population that owns 50% of the guns, and the 29% overall that oppose any restrictions. Yes, that's most of the Republican base, they're about 70-75% of the Republican party.

They're also, to a great extent, exactly the ones most paranoid about the "illegal immigrants". If you want to blow their minds, bring up Reagan's amnesty, the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. Somewhere between 2.7 and 3 million "illegals" became "legal" with a wave of his hand and providing evidence they had been in the U.S. on or before January 1, 1982. But he's Saint Ronnie to them, the "shining city on the hill", the making America proud to be America again...if they can rationalize that, they can swallow anything. If you try to explain Reagan's policies to current Republican's, they'll freak out.

Oppose the Soviet Union, abolish nuclear weapons, supply weapons to Iraq, deficit spending, raised taxes 11 times, free trade and no tariffs, supported the New Deal programs, incest-rape-threats to mother life abortions were OK, signed laws prohibiting hospitals from denying healthcare to people based upon immigration status, supported gun control, appointed record numbers of women to leadership roles, mildly supportive of civil rights, opposed discrimination against homosexuals and signed a law prohibiting blocking gay teachers while stating it was NOT a choice. Yea, Ronnie was a RINO, eh?

Which part of the US are you living in?

 

[TxRover]

15 hours ago, D Angelo Barksdale said:

Yeah, The Democrats are the Reganites now.

Yep, the parties have shifted so far Right since I first voted in 1983 it’s startling.

2 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

Which part of the US are you living in?

I could say the crazy portion, but that doesn’t help. Texas.

[TxRover]

Trump just stepped on his crank, and openly suggested cuts in Social Security. That isn’t going to play well with his base. Republican damage control efforts are not gaining traction because of the sound bite that actively disproves them. This should be fun to watch.

[SandyCromarty]

21 hours ago, TxRover said:

Yep, the parties have shifted so far Right since I first voted in 1983 it’s startling.

I could say the crazy portion, but that doesn’t help. Texas.

I fully understand where you're coming from re guns and illegals given you're domiciled in the Lone State where in some counties there's more weapons than people. Over the years I've been in and out of the State, Dallas, Houston, Port Arthur and Corpus etc, and for some months I lived down in Brownsville, working at the yard there, and one of my favourite cities worldwide for a great weekend is San Antonio, so I am totally aware of the Texas mindset and how Trump appeals to a large section of the community.

Then there's the other side of the coin where when we lived in free wheeling SF home of the lefties where NOCAL is Democratic to the core and Trump is the anti Christ.

However, as you know many Americans still hark back to the Pioneering days and live by the Constitution so when a dummy stands up and says that America needs to stop paying for and defending the world then that's their rallying cry, America for the Americans etc etc.

[TxRover]

4 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

I fully understand where you're coming from re guns and illegals given you're domiciled in the Lone State where in some counties there's more weapons than people. Over the years I've been in and out of the State, Dallas, Houston, Port Arthur and Corpus etc, and for some months I lived down in Brownsville, working at the yard there, and one of my favourite cities worldwide for a great weekend is San Antonio, so I am totally aware of the Texas mindset and how Trump appeals to a large section of the community.

Then there's the other side of the coin where when we lived in free wheeling SF home of the lefties where NOCAL is Democratic to the core and Trump is the anti Christ.

However, as you know many Americans still hark back to the Pioneering days and live by the Constitution so when a dummy stands up and says that America needs to stop paying for and defending the world then that's their rallying cry, America for the Americans etc etc.

Yea, the ‘Murica First crowd paying Jesus and Manuel under the table to cut their grass while Rosita cleans the house pretty much sums it up. The movie “A Day Without Mexicans” is a pretty amusing social commentary. It’s often a “we got in, now raise the drawbridge” mindset.

[TxRover]

Biden and Trump clinched their nominations last night.

[doulikefish]

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

Biden and Trump clinched their nominations last night.

That's a pity ...Rfk wants Aaron Rodgers or Jessie Ventura to be his VP ...if your going batshit you may aswell go the whole way

[Salt n Vinegar]

1 hour ago, doulikefish said:

That's a pity ...Rfk wants Aaron Rodgers or Jessie Ventura to be his VP ...if your going batshit you may aswell go the whole way

Can someone confirm that there's no sign of a comeback by Sarah Palin?  I can only stand so much incoherence; some of her contributions were truly awful.

[carpetmonster]

4 hours ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Can someone confirm that there's no sign of a comeback by Sarah Palin?  I can only stand so much incoherence; some of her contributions were truly awful.

She ran for Senate not so long ago but didn't make it out of the GOP primaries. 

ETA - almost all of that was wrong, sorry! It was the House she ran for, and Alaska runs ranked choice voting - Mary Peltola (D) beat Palin (who was the top of the GOP candiates) by 49% to 26% for first choice votes and then by 55 to 45 once second and third preferences had been tabulated. 

https://alaskapublic.org/2022/11/23/peltola-wins-alaskas-u-s-house-race-by-10-point-margin/

Edited March 13 by carpetmonster

[Cheese]

It's the porn star who resembles Palin I feel sorry for, work will be drying up now.

[BFTD]

If you liked VP Palin, you'll LOVE Boebert or Taylor Greene! Sadly unlikely that Trump will pick either despite their desperate pick-me behaviour.

Seems like the women of the new GOP have to try really hard to stand out as particularly dense or reprehensible when compared to the men. Weirdos like Gaetz and DeSantis are lazy by comparison.

[itzdrk]

9 hours ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Can someone confirm that there's no sign of a comeback by Sarah Palin?  I can only stand so much incoherence; some of her contributions were truly awful.

Have you not seen the documentary from the future? 

 

 

[carpetmonster]

5 minutes ago, itzdrk said:

Have you not seen the documentary from the future? 

 

 

 

Sunday Sport thread for this pish. And Sarah Palin, quite possibly. 

[BFTD]

I know someone is bound to be racking their brains right now, so here it is: Lisa Ann.

You're welcome.

[scottsdad]

3 hours ago, D Angelo Barksdale said:

It's the porn star who resembles Palin I feel sorry for, work will be drying up now.

Naw, Lisa Ann is still spending her days smoking the blue-veined Havana

[TxRover]

5 hours ago, D Angelo Barksdale said:

It's the porn star who resembles Palin I feel sorry for, work will be drying up now.

Time for an encore release of “Who’s Nailin’ Palin”, and maybe “Who’s Nailin’ Palin 2”?

5 hours ago, BFTD said:

If you liked VP Palin, you'll LOVE Boebert or Taylor Greene! Sadly unlikely that Trump will pick either despite their desperate pick-me behaviour.

Boebert has her own issues. The Representative in the seat she’s running (poorly) for has resigned effective Friday. As that’s more than 90 days before the election, under Colorado law, they have to hold an election for the remainder of his term. She can’t run for that spot without resigning her current seat, so she’s between a rock and a hard place. It’s entirely possible she’ll be running against an incumbent, which makes it even more difficult to win. The resignation now is a clear “f**k you” to the Republican Party, as it leaves them with 218 versus the 213 D seats, and four open seats. It’s entirely possible the D’s could gain a majority in the House before January and the end of this session. As it stands, they can survive just two defections on any vote, something that they haven’t managed all session.

Edit: Got some clarity, so: Colorado Republican Party will nominate a candidate to run for the remaining term…which will be on the ballot in May when Boebert is on the ballot again for the November election. Boebert would have to resign to be put on the ballot in that spot. Boebert isn’t going to resign and has asked they name a person not running in November, and she’s complaining that have two vote for the same seat on the same ballot will confuse people.

Edited March 13 by TxRover

[Freedom Farter]

On 08/03/2024 at 11:11, Florentine_Pogen said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/07/donald-trump-voter-liberals

"Donald Trump is certain to be the Republican candidate in this year’s election for US president. He is also currently favourite to win.......

..............Britons who know the US are amazed that, however reluctantly, enough of its voters might again choose Trump to rule over them after the experience of 2017 to 2021. Who are these Americans? How can they be so blind to his faults, with the law hounding him, gossip ridiculing him and commentators pouring scorn and derision on his every word?

The answer is that the Americans who support Trump are not those whom most Britons know. They are elderly and rural: they are often, but by no means solely, working class and/or non-graduates. But, above all, they love Trump because they, too, are hostile to the Americans that he purports to hate."

It's also that the Democrats don't offer an alternative to identity. They just offer a different identity, one which these folk perceive as hostile to their own. You'll never get these "basket of deplorables" folk, as Clinton dismissed them as, back onside without appealing to their material conditions. You need to change the battleground from identity to economics.

There was for a long time the Solid South (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_South) voting pattern where these deplorables always voted in line with their class interests. That all went to shit from the '60s onwards when Black people and women joined the working class (from their previous position of underclass). Rabid anti-Black racism (and to a lesser degree sexism) ripped apart working class solidarity and the Republican party ate that up.

When you hear "USA was built on white supremacy" that obviously means the extermination of the indigenous people whose land it was built on. It also means how that building was done and who was doing it. There were Black African slaves cultivating tobacco in Jamestown before the Mayflower docked at Plymouth with its Pilgrims. To put that in terms of the mythology, the origin story for "white America" is predated by African slaves. 

Even prior to the '60s, the anti-Black racism of the US labour movement had always undermined its own progress. Black men were forbidden from joining unions so anytime there was a strike, industry owners would simply sack the (white) strikers and hire a load of Black workers to fill the roles. 

So its going to be a long and hard job to change the minds of these white working class voters in the South and Mid-West. They can be dismissed as Clinton did but then all she cared about was maintaining the status quo. She loved USA just the way it was in 2016, with folk unable to access cancer treatment, an affordable home or secure employment. She was happy to coast into the White House with a message of "well the Republicans will be even worse".

To get actual change in USA, you can't just dismiss these Trump voters (not the natural Republican voters, I mean the working class ones). They need won over to give you the overwhelming public consent needed for something like universal healthcare. Your Bidens and your Clintons will fight against that tooth and nail so the pressure for it needs to come from a public majority which can't be ignored. Undoing the racism of southern and mid-western working class whites is a monumental task that'll take a long time. However, making the politcal battleground identity, as the Democrats do, and therefore playing right into that racism is the worst way to go about it.

Trade unionism is making a comeback in USA after it initially fractured in the '60s then got destroyed by Reagan in the '80s. Similar to how Mick Lynch makes more sense than any politician in UK, trade union leaders in USA present a better pitch than any of the politicians there. Trade unions are what worked before for educating working class folk on politics and I still see them as the best hope again.