cowdenbeath Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 14 hours ago, UsedToGoToCentralPark said: According to this only Cowdenbeath and Cumbernauld Colts have Bronze level grounds in the LL or below. Cowdenbeath could get the bronze level overall with not much effort by my understanding but getting a ground up to the standard for some other teams could be almost impossible I expect as the cost or space availability might just not be there. How do UOS not have the same rating for Ground as Stirling Albion? Berwick would easily get it back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 15 hours ago, UsedToGoToCentralPark said: ...but getting a ground up to the standard for some other teams could be almost impossible I expect as the cost or space availability might just not be there... Doubt space availability is the stumbling block for most clubs. Even grounds as space constrained as the K-Park in East Kilbride or Banks O'Dee's Spain Park can tick the box on cover for 500 OK at bronze level. Cost might be a challenge for a few of the smaller LL clubs but there are plenty of WoS and EoS clubs like Pollok, Irvine Meadow, Whitburn or Glenrothes that have had large covered enclosures or seated stands for decades waiting in the wings who can potentially step in and take their place in the years ahead. Bronze level isn't mission impossible. It's important to bear in mind that the SPFL can't overdo it on requirements without causing problems for some of their own members. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lithgierose Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 18 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: Best place to check is here: https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/9978/sfa-club-licensing-manual-2023.pdf What page 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 1 minute ago, lithgierose said: What page May have swans and a palace but struggle to leaf through pages. P26 onwards is worth a look. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 54 minutes ago, Shannon said: I am surprised Bonnyrigg and a few others would be happy to accept this as you do know they will eventually make the criteria even tougher to try to stop Linlithgow, Tranent and others in West that could challenge them long term having to spend that bit more cash on facilities or stop promotion. Probably because they know its a manageable standard and only impacts the SPFL and the tier 5 champion club. People with links to Berwick, Cowdenbeath, and Brechin have already come out and said they'd have been bronze if it wasnt for cutting back on non-ground related criteria. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lithgierose Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 11 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: May have swans and a palace but struggle to leaf through pages. P26 onwards is worth a look. mostly done cheers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 (edited) I had a look through the licensing manual and noted everything different from Bronze to Entry level. Basically a better ground, more qualified first team staff, and stricter admin. These seem like sensible criteria for clubs who wish to play at a national league level - given entry level licensing covers a wide variety of clubs from Airdrie and Cove all the way down to Creetown and Golspie, I don't think it's a bad thing to hold the top 42 clubs to a higher standard. (5.7 Floodlights - Bronze lights were already an SPFL requirement) Bronze 5.4 The Field The field shall be rated in “satisfactory” condition. 5.4 The Field FIFA Quality Pro, club to demonstrate annually it meets the standard 5.4 The Field 95x60m (+5x4m) 5.4 The Field (Actual numbers rather than best practice) 5.4 The Field No other markings on the field 5.4 The Field Socketed goalposts 5.8 Dressing Rooms Match officials room with space for 5 instead of 4 5.13 Spectator Areas Cover for home and away fans 5.13 Spectator Areas Cover for 500 (up from 100) from 2025 100 of these must be seated 5.15 Provision for Disabled Spectators Appoint a disability access officer 5.15 Provision for Disabled Spectators No sightline obstructions 5.15 Provision for Disabled Spectators PA adjacent seating from 2025 a covered area with 4+ wheelchair spaces 6.1 Training and Coaching Facilities for Senior Players Suitable training facilities (written evidence) 6.3 Medical and First Aid Facilities for Senior Players Rehabilitation Medical examination facility (not third party) 6.4 Medical and First Aid Provision for Senior Players at Matches Club doctor/paramedic, physiotherapist, medical bag 6.6 Team Manager/ Head Coach B licence from 2025 and have started A licence course 6.7 First Team Coaches B licence 6.8 Club Doctor or Medical Officer Clubs shall have one 6.9 Club Therapist Clubs shall have one 6.10 Goalkeeping Coach Clubs shall have one 8.4 Finance Manager Clubs shall have a professional one 8.5 Safety Officer Clubs shall have a qualified one 8.11 Annual Financial Statements Stricter, prepared by qualified accountant 8.13 Insolvency Events Not since June 2020 8.17 Attendance at a Scottish FA Organised Event on Refereeing Matters Manager/coach and team captain (instead of just someone from the club) 8.19 Diversity and Inclusion The club shall identify the training requirements for staff and key volunteers and create a learning development plan within the equality action plan. Edited February 14 by Ginaro 2025 changes 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berwick-the-unbeatable Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 Bit of a non-story. Maybe easier to say from a Berwick supporter position but if your club has ambitions to play at national level, I don't think it's unreasonable that you should also be expected to have sufficient infrastructure for it. Standards should help drive clubs forward and I think these are relatively basic but would still prompt many in doing that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 57 minutes ago, Ginaro said: I had a look through the licensing manual and noted everything different from Bronze to Entry level. Basically a better ground, more qualified first team staff, and stricter admin. These seem like sensible criteria for clubs who wish to play at a national league level - given entry level licensing covers a wide variety of clubs from Airdrie and Cove all the way down to Creetown and Golspie, I don't think it's a bad thing to hold the top 42 clubs to a higher standard. (5.7 Floodlights - Bronze lights were already an SPFL requirement) Bronze 5.4 The Field The field shall be rated in “satisfactory” condition. 5.4 The Field FIFA Quality Pro, club to demonstrate annually it meets the standard 5.4 The Field 95x60m (+5x4m) 5.4 The Field (Actual numbers rather than best practice) 5.4 The Field No other markings on the field 5.4 The Field Socketed goalposts 5.8 Dressing Rooms Match officials room with space for 5 instead of 4 5.13 Spectator Areas Cover for home and away fans 5.13 Spectator Areas Cover for 500 (up from 100) 5.15 Provision for Disabled Spectators Appoint a disability access officer 5.15 Provision for Disabled Spectators No sightline obstructions 5.15 Provision for Disabled Spectators PA adjacent seating 6.1 Training and Coaching Facilities for Senior Players Suitable training facilities 6.3 Medical and First Aid Facilities for Senior Players Rehabilitation Medical examination facility (not third party) 6.4 Medical and First Aid Provision for Senior Players at Matches Club doctor/paramedic, physiotherapist, medical bag 6.6 Team Manager/ Head Coach B licence 6.7 First Team Coaches B licence 6.8 Club Doctor or Medical Officer Clubs shall have one 6.9 Club Therapist Clubs shall have one 6.10 Goalkeeping Coach Clubs shall have one 8.4 Finance Manager Clubs shall have a professional one 8.5 Safety Officer Clubs shall have a qualified one 8.11 Annual Financial Statements Stricter, prepared by qualified accountant 8.13 Insolvency Events Not since June 2020 8.17 Attendance at a Scottish FA Organised Event on Refereeing Matters Manager/coach and team captain (instead of just someone from the club) 8.19 Diversity and Inclusion The club shall identify the training requirements for staff and key volunteers and create a learning development plan within the equality action plan. Seems straight forward enough for most clubs to obtain but I wonder if Pollok and others may need to extend their pitch? Our covered seating although you think its large at Irvine Meadow is just 490 seats officially but we do have some extra shelters that would take it to over 500. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 Newlandsfield Park is listed online as 102 x 64 yards or 93.27 x 58.52 metres so would need to expand their pitch a bit but not drastically so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Ginaro said: I had a look through the licensing manual and noted everything different from Bronze to Entry level. Basically a better ground, more qualified first team staff, and stricter admin. These seem like sensible criteria for clubs who wish to play at a national league level - given entry level licensing covers a wide variety of clubs from Airdrie and Cove all the way down to Creetown and Golspie, I don't think it's a bad thing to hold the top 42 clubs to a higher standard. (5.7 Floodlights - Bronze lights were already an SPFL requirement) Bronze 5.4 The Field The field shall be rated in “satisfactory” condition. 5.4 The Field FIFA Quality Pro, club to demonstrate annually it meets the standard 5.4 The Field 95x60m (+5x4m) 5.4 The Field (Actual numbers rather than best practice) 5.4 The Field No other markings on the field 5.4 The Field Socketed goalposts 5.8 Dressing Rooms Match officials room with space for 5 instead of 4 5.13 Spectator Areas Cover for home and away fans 5.13 Spectator Areas Cover for 500 (up from 100) 5.15 Provision for Disabled Spectators Appoint a disability access officer 5.15 Provision for Disabled Spectators No sightline obstructions 5.15 Provision for Disabled Spectators PA adjacent seating 6.1 Training and Coaching Facilities for Senior Players Suitable training facilities 6.3 Medical and First Aid Facilities for Senior Players Rehabilitation Medical examination facility (not third party) 6.4 Medical and First Aid Provision for Senior Players at Matches Club doctor/paramedic, physiotherapist, medical bag 6.6 Team Manager/ Head Coach B licence 6.7 First Team Coaches B licence 6.8 Club Doctor or Medical Officer Clubs shall have one 6.9 Club Therapist Clubs shall have one 6.10 Goalkeeping Coach Clubs shall have one 8.4 Finance Manager Clubs shall have a professional one 8.5 Safety Officer Clubs shall have a qualified one 8.11 Annual Financial Statements Stricter, prepared by qualified accountant 8.13 Insolvency Events Not since June 2020 8.17 Attendance at a Scottish FA Organised Event on Refereeing Matters Manager/coach and team captain (instead of just someone from the club) 8.19 Diversity and Inclusion The club shall identify the training requirements for staff and key volunteers and create a learning development plan within the equality action plan. There's many an SPFL Club that would fail on the disabled spectator provision of no impediments to sightlines... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilianlex Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 5 hours ago, Ginaro said: I had a look through the licensing manual and noted everything different from Bronze to Entry level. Basically a better ground, more qualified first team staff, and stricter admin. These seem like sensible criteria for clubs who wish to play at a national league level - given entry level licensing covers a wide variety of clubs from Airdrie and Cove all the way down to Creetown and Golspie, I don't think it's a bad thing to hold the top 42 clubs to a higher standard. (5.7 Floodlights - Bronze lights were already an SPFL requirement) Bronze 5.4 The Field The field shall be rated in “satisfactory” condition. 5.4 The Field FIFA Quality Pro, club to demonstrate annually it meets the standard 5.4 The Field 95x60m (+5x4m) 5.4 The Field (Actual numbers rather than best practice) 5.4 The Field No other markings on the field 5.4 The Field Socketed goalposts 5.8 Dressing Rooms Match officials room with space for 5 instead of 4 5.13 Spectator Areas Cover for home and away fans 5.13 Spectator Areas Cover for 500 (up from 100) 5.15 Provision for Disabled Spectators Appoint a disability access officer 5.15 Provision for Disabled Spectators No sightline obstructions 5.15 Provision for Disabled Spectators PA adjacent seating 6.1 Training and Coaching Facilities for Senior Players Suitable training facilities 6.3 Medical and First Aid Facilities for Senior Players Rehabilitation Medical examination facility (not third party) 6.4 Medical and First Aid Provision for Senior Players at Matches Club doctor/paramedic, physiotherapist, medical bag 6.6 Team Manager/ Head Coach B licence 6.7 First Team Coaches B licence 6.8 Club Doctor or Medical Officer Clubs shall have one 6.9 Club Therapist Clubs shall have one 6.10 Goalkeeping Coach Clubs shall have one 8.4 Finance Manager Clubs shall have a professional one 8.5 Safety Officer Clubs shall have a qualified one 8.11 Annual Financial Statements Stricter, prepared by qualified accountant 8.13 Insolvency Events Not since June 2020 8.17 Attendance at a Scottish FA Organised Event on Refereeing Matters Manager/coach and team captain (instead of just someone from the club) 8.19 Diversity and Inclusion The club shall identify the training requirements for staff and key volunteers and create a learning development plan within the equality action plan. Audited Financial statements ? There would be a few Clubs shitting themselves at that one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lithgierose Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 21 minutes ago, Brazilianlex said: Audited Financial statements ? There would be a few Clubs shitting themselves at that one. How 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 44 minutes ago, Brazilianlex said: Audited Financial statements ? There would be a few Clubs shitting themselves at that one. The only differences in 8.11 for Bronze v Entry are the words "prepared by a qualified accountant" and that there's no leeway if the auditor's report "includes an adverse or disclaimer of opinion." so... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockson Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 13 hours ago, parsforlife said: CraigKillie is probably more correct than myself, I just assumed based on the press release and didn’t think you’d hang around long to make such an announcement. There’s a reaction by some that this is like the old SPL 10000 seats rule that’s going to prevent clubs going up or those that do having to spend large sums doing so. I’m almost certain that no club is going to be denied promotion into league 2 unless they make little effort to do so. The bronze requirements are not that erroneous and it’s being speculated for a while that they would come in for spfl, you would think clubs will have already been targeting the areas required. Did you mean onerous? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilianlex Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 1 hour ago, lithgierose said: How There may be questions about the large purchase of brown envelopes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossilYM Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 12 hours ago, Brazilianlex said: There may be questions about the large purchase of brown envelopes The very reason certain Junior clubs and blazers held off the pyramid tidal wave for nearly 20 years. Even yet they're still doing the soft shoe shuffle. Last thing they want to hear about is nosey parkers looking at the books or the lack of. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 According to Iain McMenemy, the grace period being given to existing SPFL member clubs is one year. Iain McMenemy@iainmcmenemy All voted in favour to move up to bronze over the next season by the latest. I guess the more pertinent question is whether promotion candidates would be afforded the same grace period if they asked for a waiver. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_the_rover Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 On 17/07/2023 at 21:23, UsedToGoToCentralPark said: According to this only Cowdenbeath and Cumbernauld Colts have Bronze level grounds in the LL or below. Cowdenbeath could get the bronze level overall with not much effort by my understanding but getting a ground up to the standard for some other teams could be almost impossible I expect as the cost or space availability might just not be there. How do UOS not have the same rating for Ground as Stirling Albion? Cliftonhill also qualifys for bronze on the ground side of things 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamthebam Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 On 17/07/2023 at 21:23, UsedToGoToCentralPark said: According to this only Cowdenbeath and Cumbernauld Colts have Bronze level grounds in the LL or below. Cowdenbeath could get the bronze level overall with not much effort by my understanding but getting a ground up to the standard for some other teams could be almost impossible I expect as the cost or space availability might just not be there. How do UOS not have the same rating for Ground as Stirling Albion? Nae pies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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