PossilYM Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Cambuslang Hibs played in the present ground of Cambuslang Rangers. Shettleston Celtic played in Greenfield Park better known as the home of Shettleston Juniors. Maryhill Hibs/Harp played in a ground facing the Maryhill bus garage. The address of the bus garage was Celtic St, which is now a housing estate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossilYM Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 (edited) You practically have to follow the modern Irish settlement from the early 1800s, Airdrie has the second RC Church built in Scotland post Reformation by the Battle of Waterloo in 1815. Then a slow build up to the events of the late 1840s. Records show a figure of 2000 Irish a week arriving in 1847. Should say at this point a 100,000 in 1847 aren't all of the one Christian community. A group of people almost written out the story are the non RC Irish. Only public display we'd know of them would be the present day Orange Order type parades. The first Orange Hall in Scotland I've seen recorded was Irvine in 1872. The same year as the Party Procession Act is lifted. The Act covered everything from Orange and Green to Trade Unions. That's where the term "party tunes" comes from. The first "Orange Walk" in Glasgow is 1821 which ends in a riot. Football as we know it takes off big time from almost as soon as Queen Park is founded. Easiest game in the world to start. A ball of some type and spare ground. Kick and run. Rules come later. So basically we know the Little Ireland's had football teams, but how do we find the Little Ulster teams. Anywhere there was a sizable Irish community there would have been an Orange community. For every Benburb, Harp and Shamrock there seems to have been a Victoria, Rangers and Thistle. Not forgetting a Highland community, see Glasgow Perthshire. Edited July 28, 2023 by PossilYM 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted July 28, 2023 Author Share Posted July 28, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Autistisches Nilpferd said: Found a Maryhill Harp that's a new team on me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryhill_Harp_F.C.?wprov=sfla1 You've got Duntocher Harp. Is that the same team as Duntocher Hibs who played at Glenhead Park before Drumchapel Ams? Don't know. I got them from this excellent page on historical kits http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Eminent Victorians/Scotland.html That page makes me want to do another deep dive on army teams Edited July 28, 2023 by invergowrie arab 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moses1924 Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 20 minutes ago, PossilYM said: Airdrie has the second RC Church built in Scotland post Reformation Interesting fact, didn't know that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 (edited) 58 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: Don't know. I got them from this excellent page on historical kits http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Eminent Victorians/Scotland.html That page makes me want to do another deep dive on army teams Splendid website the now 17 year old Historical Football Kits. Seems the owner hasn't been too well recently. Hopefully he's alright. Fantastic resource Edited July 28, 2023 by Autistisches Nilpferd 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossilYM Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 24 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: Don't know. I got them from this excellent page on historical kits http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Eminent Victorians/Scotland.html That page makes me want to do another deep dive on army teams Third Lanark? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted July 28, 2023 Author Share Posted July 28, 2023 18 minutes ago, moses1924 said: Interesting fact, didn't know that. I think inverness had the first post reformation cathedral 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranaldo Bairn Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 The document attached below is the (basically) definitive list of all clubs to have played Association Football in Scotland. Just look for Shamrocks, Erins, Harps, Hibernians and Emmets for what you need. It is very much copyright of the SFHA, and all caps should be doffed in their direction. clublist1.xls 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted July 28, 2023 Author Share Posted July 28, 2023 (edited) 49 minutes ago, PossilYM said: You practically have to follow the modern Irish settlement from the early 1800s, Airdrie has the second RC Church built in Scotland post Reformation by the Battle of Waterloo in 1815. Then a slow build up to the events of the late 1840s. Records show a figure of 2000 Irish a week arriving in 1847. Should say at this point a 100,000 in 1847 aren't all of the one Christian community. A group of people almost written out the story are the non RC Irish. Only public display we'd know of them would be the present day Orange Order type parades. The first Orange Hall in Scotland I've seen recorded was Irvine in 1872. The same year as the Party Procession Act is lifted. The Act covered everything from Orange and Green to Trade Unions. That's where the term "party tunes" comes from. The first "Orange Walk" in Glasgow is 1821 which ends in a riot. Football as we know it takes off big time from almost as soon as Queen Park is founded. Easiest game in the world to start. A ball of some type and spare ground. Kick and run. Rules come later. So basically we know the Little Ireland's had football teams, but how do we find the Little Ulster teams. Anywhere there was a sizable Irish community there would have been an Orange community. For every Benburb, Harp and Shamrock there seems to have been a Victoria, Rangers and Thistle. Not forgetting a Highland community, see Glasgow Perthshire. Dundees Irish immigration was very much Ulster heavy. Lots of Donegal lace weavers came to the Dundee jute Mills and Irish didn't necessarily mean catholic. Even places which are catholic in donegal now were very protestant before the mid 20th century Edited July 28, 2023 by invergowrie arab 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Stanton Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Glad that 90-odd % of them no loger exist. No, if we could only go that extra 10%. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamthebam Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Edinburgh Emmett played at Bathgate Park off New Street. This was built on top of an old gas works and had a cinder pitch. An SMT bus garage was later built on the site. When the land was behind developed for some banal architecturally awful buildings a few years ago the foundations of the old gas works could be seen The Cowgate was known as "Little Ireland" where many of Edinburgh's Irish lived- Hibs were formed in the church halls in nearby St Mary's Street so Bathgate Park would have been handy for Cowgate residents. I think Emmett played at one of the Meadowbank grounds later on 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eednud Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Forfar Celtic merged with Forfar East End in the 70’s or early 80’s to become Forfar Albion. Albion then merged with Lowson United to become Forfar United in 2020. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 Before the Great War there were some dedicated Irish and/or Roman Catholic football tournaments in Scotland - focused around Lanarkshire and Glasgow but also I think Leith. Indeed there was a shortlived Scottish Catholic FA. Cups included Irish Friendship Cup, Glasgow Catholic Observer Charity Cup and St Vincent de Paul Cup. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eednud Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 St Joseph’s aka Dundee St Joseph’s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, PossilYM said: ...For every Benburb, Harp and Shamrock there seems to have been a Victoria, Rangers and Thistle... Think Thistle was more about asserting a specifically Scottish identity in a nativist sort of way than the other two that are more about being British. Overall given Presbyterians from Ulster were going to go to CoS services and the local non-denom school some level of assimilation was going to be the order of the day to a greater extent. It was only certain mining villages that wound up with populations that were very heavily of Ulster Protestant extraction so Harthill Royal step on down maybe but I suspect the people who run that club wouldn't view their club that way. You wind up with something like Rangers with Ulster themed songs featuring heavily on the terracing playlist but an overall Scottish-British and Unionist sort of orientation rather than an explicitly Ulster immigrant one. With Rangers the Ulster influence has profoundly modified the original Scottish working class host culture rather than being fully assimilated by it. That makes a fixture against a club like Aberdeen where migration from Ulster was close to zero a major culture clash. A game against Hearts not so much. Edited July 29, 2023 by LongTimeLurker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossilYM Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 10 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: Think Thistle was more about asserting a specifically Scottish identity in a nativist sort of way than the other two that are more about being British. Overall given Presbyterians from Ulster were going to go to CoS services and the local non-denom school some level of assimilation was going to be the order of the day to a greater extent. It was only certain mining villages that wound up with populations that were very heavily of Ulster Protestant extraction so Harthill Royal step on down maybe but I suspect the people who run that club wouldn't view their club that way. You wind up with something like Rangers with Ulster themed songs featuring heavily on the terracing playlist but an overall Scottish-British and Unionist sort of orientation rather than an explicitly Ulster immigrant one. With Rangers the Ulster influence has profoundly modified the original Scottish working class host culture rather than being fully assimilated by it. That makes a fixture against a club like Aberdeen where migration from Ulster was close to zero a major culture clash. A game against Hearts not so much. One grouping that has almost disappeared off the radar was the Anglican Church in working class areas. Even allowing for a Highland connection and limited numbers of English, it's obvious it was poor Prods from rural Ireland that was the backbone of that church. I remember a few old schools in Glasgow with saints names that weren't under the auspices of the RC Church. St James in the Calton and St Rollox in the Garngad being two of them. Sounded pretty"piskie" to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Joe Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 On 28/07/2023 at 22:58, invergowrie arab said: Dundees Irish immigration was very much Ulster heavy. Lots of Donegal lace weavers came to the Dundee jute Mills and Irish didn't necessarily mean catholic. Even places which are catholic in donegal now were very protestant before the mid 20th century A surprisingly large percentage (my ancestors included) came from Cavan. More Irish settled in the Blackness Road area than Lochee. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfha Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 On 28/07/2023 at 21:05, PossilYM said: Maryhill Hibs became Maryhill Harp in a Glasgow Junior League dispute in the 1940s. They were SJL members but wanted into the Central League. The club was closed down in May 1939, immediately reformed as Harp and applied for a place in the CL. At the AGM, however, they were surprisingly denied entry so had to go grovelling back to the SJL. They eventually got in when the SJL closed down in 1941 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEd Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 Whitletts Celtic existed briefly in the early 20th century, back in the days when Whitletts was a mining village. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossilYM Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 On 28/07/2023 at 17:17, invergowrie arab said: Talking about Edinburgh Emmet in another thread got me to thinking how many Irish diaspora clubs there have been in Scotland? Here's what I have in order of importnace. Any more? Dundee Hibernian Harp FC (Dundee) Lochee Harp Hibernian Celtic Glasgow Hibernian Dumbarton Harp Johnstone Harp Polokshaws Harp Whifflet Shamrock Edinburgh Emmet Leith Emmet Leith Harp Erin Rovers/Bathgate Erin Rovers Erin Rovers (Perth) Broxburn Shamrock Cambuslang Hibernian Vale of Leven Hibernian Carfin Shamrock Kilsyth Emmet 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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