Stenhousemuir -vs- Dumbarton (Saturday 26 August 2023)

[Old Fashioned Stramash]

41 minutes ago, FifeSons said:

Some nice bonus seethe from the Stenny fans towards Long at the end!

To be fair, what was Long doing running so far out of his box for, what happened right in front of me, wasn't a foul. Brown's foot wasn't high, Gray bows down as Brown is making contact with the ball and Grays head is coming in at the other side of the ball. It didn't deserve the overreaction from Long but that's fitbaw.

Bilham got a roasting from McLean, who I thought was brilliant today. O'Reilly looked very frustrated and didn't give Bilham much of a hand. Thought two maybe three of the Sons goals were avoidable from our point of view. 

Defence starts from the front and although he's scored 2 goals, Aitken doesn't press hard enough or close down the space. 

Matty Yates barely had a kick and looks frustrated. He wasn't happy at Berry not feeding him through balls. Berry was poor too. 

But Ross Taylor, fantastic performance. Confident play, a few tricks and basically done everything for us. 

Thought the Sons looked strong, positioned well and across the middle of the park, that's the best I've seen this season. Great first half from them. Carlo Pignatiello was superb down the right hand side. He should never have been sent off, the first yellow was never a booking. The referee and the assistant were utterly abysmal. Taylor definitely was fouled inside the box, when it was 1-0. Ref didn't want to know. 

Yet, we had our chances. I thought O'Reilly was onside for the disallowed goal, we hit the post and missed a couple of chances that should've went in, Kirkpatrick's attempt being one. 

Got to keep the heads up and look forward to the Spartans game. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Old Fashioned Stramash

[Jan Vojáček]

1 minute ago, lorenzo71 said:

Great result no doubt.Any news on Lynas ' injury?If hes missing along with carlo how might we line up next week?

Faz is hopeful that Aron will be fine, so fingers crossed it's nothing too bad.

1 minute ago, Old Fashioned Stramash said:

To be fair, what was Long doing running so far out of his box for, what happened right in front of me, wasn't a foul. Brown's foot wasn't high, Gray bows down as Brown is making contact with the ball and Grays head is coming in at the other side of the ball. It didn't deserve the overreaction from Long but that's fitbaw.

I think Brett joined in to drag Tony Wallace away. He was ready to land one on Nicky Jamieson (I think), who booted the ball at Finlay on the ground. Certainly a Warriors player kicked the ball at the Sons player - which is what sparked the shenanigans. 

[Francesc Fabregas]

A weird, weird game of football today. I thought we were very good in the 10 minutes or so and created a series of presentable openings but after Sean Crighton opened the scoring, we completely capitulated. Everything Dumbarton hit went in. They were clinical. Ruthless. I haven't seen us turn in a half-hour of football like it. I think all four goals could have been prevented. I'll need to watch them back but I think all four of our defenders played a part in every one of Dumbarton's goals. That's not to denigrate their performance - a lot of their players did well throughout, especially Mark Durnan, Finlay Gray, Jinky Hilton and Ross Maclean, and the whole team performed to a high standard and managed the game well - but they were abetted by some horrendous mistakes.

Stenhousemuir were certainly better in the second half but it doesn't really count when they're four goals behind and the opposition are content to see out the match. Our best player was Ross Taylor, who really gave Greig Young a hard time down the right flank. He set up our disallowed goal, won the penalty, set up Matty Aitken's second at the death and teed up a chance Jordan Kirkpatrick by dribbling past four opponents inside the box. He looks such an exciting prospect and it was a performance that deserved better.

Other than that? Adam Brown and Mikey Anderson did well when they came on and are probably in line for a start next week, so too is Marley Sweenie-Rowe at left-back. Aitken got off the mark with two decent goals, so that's something. I don't want to be too hard on our hitherto impregnable defence but all four of them are capable of far better than that slop.

I hope to see a far better showing next time out against The Spartans. That first-half display was appalling!

[Boghead ranter]

1 hour ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

given that pernickity fud of a ref dished out 9 yellows and a red in a game that barely had a bad tackle in it.

The only thing that would have been an understandable yellow today was the tackle on Lynas, but that wasn't even deemed a foul.

It was one of the cleanest football games I've ever seen, yet there were more cards on show than in Clinton's.

[Old Fashioned Stramash]

5 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said:

Faz is hopeful that Aron will be fine, so fingers crossed it's nothing too bad.

I think Brett joined in to drag Tony Wallace away. He was ready to land one on Nicky Jamieson (I think), who booted the ball at Finlay on the ground. Certainly a Warriors player kicked the ball at the Sons player - which is what sparked the shenanigans. 

From where I was sitting, in line with the fracas, there were verbals and pushing ongoing before Jamieson kicks the ball into Gray. Long was on his bike heading towards the centre before Wallace decided he wanted to play boxers with Jamieson ( that would be a good fight ). Long was on a booking and took a risk as some refs, may have seen that as unsportsmanship and sent him off. Especially that nugget we had today. We've seen it happening before.

[BallochSonsFan]

Referee will be a major talking point. He made some bonkers decisions. I don't think Buchanan's first half yellow was a booking. I think McLean got away with one that was about 5 or 6 minutes later going by the Buchanan yellow. I thought that the only time the game threatened to boil over, the referee had lost any sense of control of the situation. A booking for the Stenny player who went in high and recklessly would have avoided the petty afters. He let Stenny players shout and scream at him over decisions that went against them and yet books a Stenny player for punching the ball in frustration for a free kick that the ref gave him. With that particular booking in mind, I'm annoyed by the cards given to Long and Carlo. Neither should have been yellow and yet both knew that the ref was being particularly harsh on any perceived attempts at preventing a set piece from being taken. Neither should have given the ref the opportunity to book them. Doesnt matter that a different ref wouldn't have booked them, this utter fud this afternoon did.

 

The actual football? Game of 2 halves. I thought we were very good in the first 45. The movement of Hilton and McLean gave Stenny real problems and their switching of positions on the fly meant that the home defence often failed to pick up the danger. I thought we were good down both flanks and we attacked the Stenny fullbacks well. I thought Blair Malcolm gave us far more urgency in midfield than Ryan Blair does and that he had a good game. 2nd half we decided to try and see out the game with our lead, even before Carlo's 2nd booking. That said, it was only a very sharp save from the home keeper that denied us a 5th.

 

Would have been a great game for neutrals and a fantastic advert for lower league football. As a Sons fan there was an awful lot to be very happy with.

[Nigel Blackwell]

It was a bonkers game. For me the key difference was that Dumbarton looked a real threat whenever they got near our goal (albeit, abetted by some awful defending) whereas we, despite all our good football (and it was good, we had Dumbarton pressed back for large parts of that first half) never really looked like scoring. Of course 4-0 at half time flattered Dumbarton, and there were some critical decisions that went against us - the “penalty” and Dumbo’s 2nd (I think) may have been offside, and our “goal” might not. Either way, fine margins. But if you defend like that…

Last season Dumbarton infuriatingly were allowed to get away with endemic timewasting that referees failed to control. The keeper being the main protagonist. Today he was booked as he fannied about with the ball at our corner. There were then two (maybe three) bookings for kicking the ball away before the player/idiot picked up another yellow for, you guessed it, kicking the ball away. For me Dumbarton only had themselves to blame, and don’t forget they were comfortably winning 4-0 (and then 4-1). The game was never in doubt. 

Dumbo looked good, and based on that overall performance, are the team to beat. We could do well, and while the defence had a nightmare today, I actually think our problem is up front. We need to be able to capitalise on all the good build up play (Ross Taylor in particular was outstanding today) and have more of a threat in the opposition box.

Interesting game coming up next week away at Spartans.

[Sweet Pete]

Stenhousemuir soundly beaten by Dumbarton. Business as usual.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

I’d be interested to see Carlos red back. From the stream it looked like he poked the ball about 3 yards infront of him after the whistle. He certainly didn’t blooter it miles. It was probably a case of him being daft simply because that ref was booking players for anything but I’d be surprised if another ref sends a player off for that. 

It doesn’t bother me if we time waste when we’re seeing a game out tbh, I’d just rather we were a bit smarter about it instead of picking up needless cards in the process. Game management, dark arts etc etc.

[Jan Vojáček]

That was a game that had a bit of everything. And, given the result, I should probably be feeling a bit better than I do. But the Carlo red card and how sloppy we got towards the end took the shine off an absolutely superb display of attacking football in the first-half.

First of all, I have to say fair play to Faz. He got his team selection spot on. To start, effectively, without a striker was always going to be bold. And could've backfired. But it was absolutely the correct thing to do.

Nicky Jamieson and Gregor Buchanan are two solid big boys who will deal with everything in the air. So getting the ball down and trying to stretch them was exactly the right way to get a result.

MacLean and Hilton were always on the move, always drifting into pockets of space and always looking to make something happen. And the Warriors' back four had no idea what to do with them.

MacLean frustrates me. And I do probably criticise him a wee bit more than he deserves at times, but that's because of days like today. When he plays like that he's almost unstoppable at this level. He's good in the air, he's got quick feet, he's sharp, a good sprinter, will work tirelessly and can finish. I suppose if he did that more often then he wouldn't be playing for us though, but it was good to see him really putting on a show.

Likewise Jinky Hilton, who is such a cute, clever wee player. He doesn't have the pace or physicality of MacLean, but he's got a terrific footballing brain and a lovely touch. The two of them looked a real handful all game.

If I'm over-critical of MacLean, then everyone knows how much I love Carlo Pignatiello. And for 82 minutes he showed exactly why. He was superb. His strength and aggression down the right couldn't be dealt with and, whilst his decision making in the final third could maybe be better/quicker, he was finding himself in great positions time after time. The way he bullied his way to the byline for the fourth goal was outstanding. 

His second booking was incredibly harsh. But also daft. He gave the referee a decision to make, and he didn't have to. For that he only has himself to blame, and deep down he'll know that. He'll be a massive loss next week.

That being said, I thought that Duncan Williams did his utmost to ruin an entertaining game of football. From the moment he decided to book Matty Yates for punching the ball when Williams failed to play an advantage with Stenny on the attack, he made a rod for his own back.

11 yellow cards in a game that was, largely, played in a good manner and with very few incidents of note kind of tells a story.

You can't fault his consistency. He booked near enough every player who touched a ball after the whistle, regardless of where they were, where the ball went and whether or not they had already made a motion to touch it before the whistle. So you can't say the players weren't warned. Brett Long's booking, for trying a wee nutmeg on a player by the post as soon as the ball had gone out of play, especially was nonsense. As was the fact he seemed to turn a blind eye to actual fouls (or having players screaming in his face) - but there you go.

Our first-half performance after taking the lead was very, very good. That goes without saying. We could've (and maybe should've) scored a few more too. Ross MacLean hit the side netting when he should've squared for Hilton to tap in, the same man also bent an effort inches wide from the edge of the area. Div Wilson couldn't quite touch a Carlo Pignatiello cross in from a yard out, and Jinky Hilton panicked a bit and fluffed his lines after a long ball split the Stenny defence.

In the second-half we maybe could've had another couple too. Div Wilson flashed just wide, Tony Wallace was denied by an absolutely top class Darren Jamieson save, and Declan Byrne missed a good chance after Jamieson had made an arse of a clearance and whacked it straight off him.

But those chances aside, I thought we were ropey in the second-half. Far too slack at times and we were cutting about like the game was won. Which it was...but that doesn't mean you can get as slack as we did!

Weirdly, given the result, I wouldn't be too downhearted if I was a Warriors fan. That was just one of those days defensively where nobody played well. And they looked a threat all game - especially wee Ross Taylor.

I remember seeing him for Talbot against Clydebank last year - and two things hit me. Firstly that he makes me feel incredibly old because he looks like a child. And secondly, that he looked a damn good player. The last player at WOS level who caught my eye like that was, erm, Will Sewell...

He won the penalty and set-up Matty Aitken's 90+ages consolation. But the way he carried the ball was class. He was like prime Raheem Sterling with the way he breezed beyond challenges with the ball completely under control and defenders terrified to go near him.

As a team though they'll play worse this season and take something. Gregor Buchanan will be back to himself next week, but today was a wee example of what we mentioned he can do. 90 percent of the time he's the best defender in the league. The other 10 percent? Well that was what you saw today.

[Jan Vojáček]

4 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

I’d be interested to see Carlos red back. From the stream it looked like he poked the ball about 3 yards infront of him after the whistle. He certainly didn’t blooter it miles. It was probably a case of him being daft simply because that ref was booking players for anything but I’d be surprised if another ref sends a player off for that. 

It doesn’t bother me if we time waste when we’re seeing a game out tbh, I’d just rather we were a bit smarter about it instead of picking up needless cards in the process. Game management, dark arts etc etc.

That is exactly what happened.

[George Parr]

Decent game of ‘baw. Both clubs should do alright this season. The ref was a c**t. 

Hot take. 

[TullyBascombe]

Incredible first half, Stenny started well but the two centre halves were all over the shop and it was great to see Sons looking confident going forward and actually having shots. Shots! 

Second half was a bit more like last season, as well as daft bookings and a dafter red card even allowing for the throbber of a ref.

Ross Taylor was absolutely sensational for the home side. But to come away from Ochilview with four goals and only conceding a penalty and an unlucky 98th minute own goal is really something.

Still expect Stenny to be up there, they played some great stuff. Defence won’t play that badly again I’m sure.

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by TullyBascombe

[O'Kelly Isley III]

16 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said:

That was a game that had a bit of everything. And, given the result, I should probably be feeling a bit better than I do. But the Carlo red card and how sloppy we got towards the end took the shine off an absolutely superb display of attacking football in the first-half.

First of all, I have to say fair play to Faz. He got his team selection spot on. To start, effectively, without a striker was always going to be bold. And could've backfired. But it was absolutely the correct thing to do.

Nicky Jamieson and Gregor Buchanan are two solid big boys who will deal with everything in the air. So getting the ball down and trying to stretch them was exactly the right way to get a result.

MacLean and Hilton were always on the move, always drifting into pockets of space and always looking to make something happen. And the Warriors' back four had no idea what to do with them.

MacLean frustrates me. And I do probably criticise him a wee bit more than he deserves at times, but that's because of days like today. When he plays like that he's almost unstoppable at this level. He's good in the air, he's got quick feet, he's sharp, a good sprinter, will work tirelessly and can finish. I suppose if he did that more often then he wouldn't be playing for us though, but it was good to see him really putting on a show.

Likewise Jinky Hilton, who is such a cute, clever wee player. He doesn't have the pace or physicality of MacLean, but he's got a terrific footballing brain and a lovely touch. The two of them looked a real handful all game.

If I'm over-critical of MacLean, then everyone knows how much I love Carlo Pignatiello. And for 82 minutes he showed exactly why. He was superb. His strength and aggression down the right couldn't be dealt with and, whilst his decision making in the final third could maybe be better/quicker, he was finding himself in great positions time after time. The way he bullied his way to the byline for the fourth goal was outstanding. 

His second booking was incredibly harsh. But also daft. He gave the referee a decision to make, and he didn't have to. For that he only has himself to blame, and deep down he'll know that. He'll be a massive loss next week.

That being said, I thought that Duncan Williams did his utmost to ruin an entertaining game of football. From the moment he decided to book Matty Yates for punching the ball when Williams failed to play an advantage with Stenny on the attack, he made a rod for his own back.

11 yellow cards in a game that was, largely, played in a good manner and with very few incidents of note kind of tells a story.

You can't fault his consistency. He booked near enough every player who touched a ball after the whistle, regardless of where they were, where the ball went and whether or not they had already made a motion to touch it before the whistle. So you can't say the players weren't warned. Brett Long's booking, for trying a wee nutmeg on a player by the post as soon as the ball had gone out of play, especially was nonsense. As was the fact he seemed to turn a blind eye to actual fouls (or having players screaming in his face) - but there you go.

Our first-half performance after taking the lead was very, very good. That goes without saying. We could've (and maybe should've) scored a few more too. Ross MacLean hit the side netting when he should've squared for Hilton to tap in, the same man also bent an effort inches wide from the edge of the area. Div Wilson couldn't quite touch a Carlo Pignatiello cross in from a yard out, and Jinky Hilton panicked a bit and fluffed his lines after a long ball split the Stenny defence.

In the second-half we maybe could've had another couple too. Div Wilson flashed just wide, Tony Wallace was denied by an absolutely top class Darren Jamieson save, and Declan Byrne missed a good chance after Jamieson had made an arse of a clearance and whacked it straight off him.

But those chances aside, I thought we were ropey in the second-half. Far too slack at times and we were cutting about like the game was won. Which it was...but that doesn't mean you can get as slack as we did!

Weirdly, given the result, I wouldn't be too downhearted if I was a Warriors fan. That was just one of those days defensively where nobody played well. And they looked a threat all game - especially wee Ross Taylor.

I remember seeing him for Talbot against Clydebank last year - and two things hit me. Firstly that he makes me feel incredibly old because he looks like a child. And secondly, that he looked a damn good player. The last player at WOS level who caught my eye like that was, erm, Will Sewell...

He won the penalty and set-up Matty Aitken's 90+ages consolation. But the way he carried the ball was class. He was like prime Raheem Sterling with the way he breezed beyond challenges with the ball completely under control and defenders terrified to go near him.

As a team though they'll play worse this season and take something. Gregor Buchanan will be back to himself next week, but today was a wee example of what we mentioned he can do. 90 percent of the time he's the best defender in the league. The other 10 percent? Well that was what you saw today.

A good summation Jan, and I think neither side should read too much into this result.  Put it this way, had you told me at 3-o'clock that we would win then I'd have been delighted.  Had you told me that we'd be four up at halftime I'd have laughed.  But here we are.

Stenny will play much, much worse and win, and they had some fine individual performances, young Taylor being the standout.  They also had some very ordinary performances and I think that Nicky Jamieson and Bucky in particular will have more comfortable afternoons.

Aye, Mr Williams.  A howler of a performance and riven with inconsistencies.  There was one bad challenge in the entire match when Gavin O'Reilly caught Aron Lynas late, resulting in him leaving the pitch.  Punishment there came none, yet we were treated to a blizzard of yellow plastic, much of it ill-advised.  I hope a Supervisor was in attendance, if only to remind him that the referee should never become a major figure in the proceedings.

[Nigel Blackwell]

27 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

I’d be interested to see Carlos red back. From the stream it looked like he poked the ball about 3 yards infront of him after the whistle. He certainly didn’t blooter it miles. It was probably a case of him being daft simply because that ref was booking players for anything but I’d be surprised if another ref sends a player off for that. 

It doesn’t bother me if we time waste when we’re seeing a game out tbh, I’d just rather we were a bit smarter about it instead of picking up needless cards in the process. Game management, dark arts etc etc.

He did poke the ball away - suspect it travelled more than 3 yards though. But the point is that (i) he had been booked (ii) the referee had issued three yellow cards earlier for kicking the ball away at Stenhousemuir free kicks and (iii) Dumbo were comfortably winning. It was idiotic.

As for the referee, every fan has been on the receiving end of the “dark arts” and it is maddening. How often do you hear complaints that the referee didn’t get control of it? Well today, this referee made it pretty clear that if Dumbo were going to time waste/prevent us taking free kicks he was going to book them. He couldn’t have been any clearer. It started with the keeper messing about at our corner kick and then trying to piss about by trying to nut meg our player who went to get the ball. The referee had warned him.

[Jan Vojáček]

If we're counting every time a player touches the ball after the whistle as timewasting then there's going to be a hell of a lot of bookings this season.

Fwiw I would 100 percent support a rule where, when the whistle is sounded, any opposition player who touches the ball is booked. I like the idea of it, and if that rules was brought in and made black and white then nobody could complain.

But next week I've no doubt that we'll see at least one player do more than Carlo did to get his two bookings today and walk off without having his name taken. And that's where the frustration is. As much as I blame him for the fact he was sent off.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

38 minutes ago, Nigel Blackwell said:

He did poke the ball away - suspect it travelled more than 3 yards though. But the point is that (i) he had been booked (ii) the referee had issued three yellow cards earlier for kicking the ball away at Stenhousemuir free kicks and (iii) Dumbo were comfortably winning. It was idiotic.

As for the referee, every fan has been on the receiving end of the “dark arts” and it is maddening. How often do you hear complaints that the referee didn’t get control of it? Well today, this referee made it pretty clear that if Dumbo were going to time waste/prevent us taking free kicks he was going to book them. He couldn’t have been any clearer. It started with the keeper messing about at our corner kick and then trying to piss about by trying to nut meg our player who went to get the ball. The referee had warned him.

There’s a big difference between “kicking the ball away” and poking it a matter of yards infront of you a millisecond after the whistle goes. It was a harsh yellow, as were others, whether the referee warned them previously or not.

[Old Fashioned Stramash]

I thought Pignatiello's first yellow was harsh, never mind the booking for kicking the ball away. Again, happened right in front of me and there was a little bit of contact, with a free-kick probably rightly awarded but it certainly didn't merit a yellow and as far as I'm aware, he hadn't committed any other fouls at that stage. Weird decision. 

[lorenzo71]

2 hours ago, Jan Vojáček said:

That is exactly what happened.

Why was Ryan Wallace missing?injury? We really seem to have an curse on our strikers.

[PWL]

Enjoyed that yesterday. Ochilview remains one of my favourite away grounds. Not sure what astro surface they have but if we are to go down that route Stenny's seems far superior to likes of Kilmarnock.

Unsung hero for me was Blair Malcolm. Did lots of the midfield graft and donkey work well and it was noticeable how much more time on the ball they had when he was moved to right back.