Dumbarton v East Fife 2/9/23

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I'm not convinced that formations are as important in League Two as the quality of the players in the team.  The Forfar result was rescued because the introduction of McLean, Hilton and Malcolm proved far more effective than the players they replaced.

Similarly, last week the game was won in a 30-minute spell when our attacking quality ruthlessly exposed Stenny defensive weaknesses, and that was a result of McLean and Hilton again hitting form and meshing well, allied to getting the ball forward far more quickly than previously - take a bow Finlay and Carlo.

It would be nice to think that we'll continue to be offensive, and we have Ruth and Wallace in there too, and that playing to players' strengths will be more important than holding to rigid formations - look how that worked out last season.

You've been shouting about 2 up top for weeks/months/years (delete as appropriate) and now we've finally moved to 2 up top you're telling us it doesn't matter? Make yer mind up

 

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I'm not convinced that formations are as important in League Two as the quality of the players in the team.  The Forfar result was rescued because the introduction of McLean, Hilton and Malcolm proved far more effective than the players they replaced.

Similarly, last week the game was won in a 30-minute spell when our attacking quality ruthlessly exposed Stenny defensive weaknesses, and that was a result of McLean and Hilton again hitting form and meshing well, allied to getting the ball forward far more quickly than previously - take a bow Finlay and Carlo.

It would be nice to think that we'll continue to be offensive, and we have Ruth and Wallace in there too, and that playing to players' strengths will be more important than holding to rigid formations - look how that worked out last season.

Ach away. The correct formation and the correct players in certain positions are absolutely vital, even at this level. During the Forfar game the switch up allowed us to win the battle in the middle of the park which in turn frees up the guys further up the park. We linked the play a lot better, previously Ryan Wallace was dropping into midfield to try and get the ball! Sure the introduction of certain players made a difference but the right system is the modern game is hugely important. Playing a straight 442 would see us completely battered in the middle of the park IMO.

[cameron2000]

19 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

Ach away. The correct formation and the correct players in certain positions are absolutely vital, even at this level. During the Forfar game the switch up allowed us to win the battle in the middle of the park which in turn frees up the guys further up the park. We linked the play a lot better, previously Ryan Wallace was dropping into midfield to try and get the ball! Sure the introduction of certain players made a difference but the right system is the modern game is hugely important. Playing a straight 442 would see us completely battered in the middle of the park IMO.

Ironically, it felt like the 3-5-2 used at the weekend would sometimes morph into a narrow 4-4-2. When Pignateillo was particularly high up Lynas would step up to support just as a normal right back would.

 

I agree that formation absolutely does matter. The 4-3-3 will potentially be better against high pressing teams by giving us an extra man to bypass the press (hence why it looked pretty exciting against Inverness and Airdrie etc), whereas the 3-5-2 looks great for breaking down deeper sitting team by allowing us to overload forward areas. 
 

Theres no doubt we see a similar plan with both formations but the 4-3-3 was leaving us with a lack of forward options (and potentially even more exposed defensively when both Full backs got frustrated and pressed very high up, leaving only Durnan and Crichton back. I suspect most teams are going to be sitting deeper against us this season meaning the 3-5-2 could be important pretty often.

 

There’s no doubt we’re a centre back short but there are definitely options. Malcom was very good the past two weeks but it’s definitely pessimistic to presume everything will go to shit if he’s not in midfield. A 3 of Blair, Gray and one other should be pretty strong still. I reckon we should feel pretty lucky to have the squad we’ve got for this division. There is (relative) quality and depth everywhere other than centre back.

[BallochSonsFan]

I'd probably view tactics at this level as being partly important. I'm not advocating the kind of modern tinkering or obsessing over false 9s, registas, trequartistas and all the usual Football Manager computer game stuff.

But you can tell when a team is well organised and when players understand their roles. The difference that Hilton and MacLean playing together on Saturday made was in how their movement and their swapping roles caused confusion in the Stenny defence. Hilton and MacLean knew what they were doing and knew what the other one was doing and we were far more dangerous as a result.

I think that modern football and modern fans like to make the game more complicated than it needs to be, but there needs to be a degree of organisation. Good players who don't understand their role on the park don't become bad players but they do tend to underperform.

[squeezebox-son]

Apologies if I missed anyone else saying, but wasn't Sheils filling in at CB at points last season and pre season before he signed on with us? I wonder if he'll be the one to drop in to that area. Wouldn't be my choice but allows us to keep Malcolm in the middle of the park. 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

56 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

I'd probably view tactics at this level as being partly important. I'm not advocating the kind of modern tinkering or obsessing over false 9s, registas, trequartistas and all the usual Football Manager computer game stuff.

But you can tell when a team is well organised and when players understand their roles. The difference that Hilton and MacLean playing together on Saturday made was in how their movement and their swapping roles caused confusion in the Stenny defence. Hilton and MacLean knew what they were doing and knew what the other one was doing and we were far more dangerous as a result.

I think that modern football and modern fans like to make the game more complicated than it needs to be, but there needs to be a degree of organisation. Good players who don't understand their role on the park don't become bad players but they do tend to underperform.

And for evidence of that you only need to look at the post above yours.  As for Blair, no harm to the lad, but a season and a bit of watching the play grind to a virtual halt when he is in midfield has pretty much convinced me that we need more mobility and energy than he can offer.  To the @Bring Back Paddy Flannery point above, that is why the (solo) Ryan Wallace was in the centre-circle looking for the ball against Forfar.

@The Moonster, yes I've been banging on about two up front for long enough - the Binos romped the division last season with Carrick and Thomson up there - but it has less to do with formations than attacking intent and getting the players into that mindset for this season.  And guess what, on the basis of the last two games it might work.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

According to the OS only Carlo and Callum Wilson are unavailable for us tomorrow, so we must assume that Aron Lynas is fit and Ryan Wallace is available following his mystery disappearance at Ochilview.

[The Moonster]

11 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

According to the OS only Carlo and Callum Wilson are unavailable for us tomorrow, so we must assume that Aron Lynas is fit and Ryan Wallace is available following his mystery disappearance at Ochilview.

No info from the fish counter on Wallace?

[Jan Vojáček]

Just now, The Moonster said:

No info from the fish counter on Wallace?

He was there on Saturday. Had a knock so hadn't trained during the week and wasn't risked.

[The Moonster]

Given how Jinky and Chucky performed he might struggle to get back in. 

[George Parr]

On 30/08/2023 at 10:28, BallochSonsFan said:

I'd probably view tactics at this level as being partly important. I'm not advocating the kind of modern tinkering or obsessing over false 9s, registas, trequartistas and all the usual Football Manager computer game stuff.

But you can tell when a team is well organised and when players understand their roles. The difference that Hilton and MacLean playing together on Saturday made was in how their movement and their swapping roles caused confusion in the Stenny defence. Hilton and MacLean knew what they were doing and knew what the other one was doing and we were far more dangerous as a result.

I think that modern football and modern fans like to make the game more complicated than it needs to be, but there needs to be a degree of organisation. Good players who don't understand their role on the park don't become bad players but they do tend to underperform.

I'll just be glad when we move away from "the press" and onto the next (non-revolutionary) fad.

[Cambuslang Fifer]

Does it really matter what team Dumbarton field tomorrow despite signing a player onloan yesterday we are still going lose 5-0 away at Dumbarton regardless.

we are where we are and canny score unless trouten scores a penalty! Dumbarton one those bogey away days like what’s the point travelling there and being rubbish in past.

[Sons fan 1872]

What was the formation last week. Was it the same as the second half of the Forfar game!

[The Moonster]

35 minutes ago, Sons fan 1872 said:

What was the formation last week. Was it the same as the second half of the Forfar game!

Aye.

[Beachcomber]

Was confident of a 4-5-1 starting line up but with Kieran Mitchell signed I don't see the point of leaving him on bench, so he should partner Shep up front with Fash coming off the bench later on.

[The Moonster]

Sons fans awaiting the line up.

[Sweet Pete]

Reading through the team it looks like
Long

Lynas, creighton, durnan

Shiels, Gray, malcolm, Wilson, young

Jinky, maclean

[The Moonster]

Well of all the team selections that were running through my head for this one Farrell seems to have found one I couldn't think of. Lets hope it works.

[Jan Vojáček]

On 29/08/2023 at 09:23, Jan Vojáček said:

Our chances hinge on Aron Lynas' fitness imo. Losing one right-sided player is a blow, but losing both is a real issue when we're short on centre-halves and play 3-5-2.

If he does make it then I'd imagine we'll see him at RWB and Blair Malcolm at RCB. Which I'm not all that into on the basis I think Malcolm is absolutely vital to our midfield. But it's just about the only option I can see. Unless we move Young to LCB, shuffle everyone across and start Matty Shiels at LWB? Or play Kalvin as wing-back? Although I'm not sure he's defensively savvy enough for the role.

I'm thinking as I type here. But basically if Carlo hadn't got himself sent-off then I'd have been feeling a whole lot more confident than I am. That and the fact that Nathan Austin A) Loves a goal against us and B) Has never lost when he's played against us.

No idea if that's what we'll actually do. But I'd like to say that I called it.

[King Kebab]