Docs Dark Blue Derry Destroyers v Glesga Smeltic

[bennett]

56 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

Not quite sure what’s triggered you there pal but Merry Xmas  

I think that he's expecting you to jump out of your seat and sort out the bigots, though I maybe wrong.

[BukyOHare]

4 minutes ago, bennett said:

I think that he's expecting you to jump out of your seat and sort out the bigots, though I maybe wrong.

But if enough fans, from both sides of the OF, made a point of calling it out and sorting it out from within the stands often enough, then it would be a dwindling minority who continue with this repulsive behaviour.

It may be unfair, but if you fly with the crows, you'll get shot with the crows. 

[Jinky67]

37 minutes ago, BukyOHare said:

But if enough fans, from both sides of the OF, made a point of calling it out and sorting it out from within the stands often enough, then it would be a dwindling minority who continue with this repulsive behaviour.

It may be unfair, but if you fly with the crows, you'll get shot with the crows. 

Fans do call it out and it falls on deaf ears as they just don’t give a f**k.. Fans however aren’t going to sort it out on the stands because the last thing anyone is going to do is start piling into a mob of 100 or so, if you think that’s the solution then you have been watching too much of the Football factory, Green St etc so let’s really think about what you are advocating here? Fan violence? Really…..? The majority of people just want to escape the drama of their lives by going to the football not start it with a bunch of entitled, backward thinking fuckwits.

As for anyone calling someone a shitebag for not sorting it out themselves clearly has never been in a situation where they have had to defend themselves from multiple people, no one should ever be expected to put themselves at risk. 

45 minutes ago, bennett said:

I think that he's expecting you to jump out of your seat and sort out the bigots, though I maybe wrong.

Tend not to bring my cape to games mate and the Batmobile draws a bit of attention parked up the Forge

Edited December 27, 2023 by Jinky67

[BukyOHare]

1 minute ago, Jinky67 said:

Fans do call it out and it falls on deaf ears as they just don’t give a f**k.. Fans however aren’t going to sort it out on the stands because the last thing anyone is going to do is start piling into a mob of 100 or so,

Fair enough but if it was my team then I'd be contacting the club with my concerns and telling them in no uncertain terms that I wouldn't be back until it was sorted out. Providing them with recordings taken from within the stands as proof of what's going on.

Perhaps this is being done by fans who finally want things to change, if it is then it's fully on the club and these supporters should be calling both the club and the fans who keep up this behaviour out publicly. 

Clearly not enough are, hence the reason why non OF fans tar everybody with the same brush.

If the club don't properly act then it's upto fans with a bit of morals, decency and backbone to decide whether to keep supporting the club at all. To those looking from the outside in, yes it is very much that serious.

 

 

[Jinky67]

Just now, BukyOHare said:

Fair enough but if it was my team then I'd be contacting the club with my concerns and telling them in no uncertain terms that I wouldn't be back until it was sorted out. Providing them with recordings taken from within the stands as proof of what's going on.

Perhaps this is being done by fans who finally want things to change, if it is then it's fully on the club and these supporters should be calling both the club and the fans who keep up this behaviour out publicly. 

Clearly not enough are, hence the reason why non OF fans tar everybody with the same brush.

If the club don't properly act then it's upto fans with a bit of morals, decency and backbone to decide whether to keep supporting the club at all. To those looking from the outside in, yes it is very much that serious.

 

 

Whilst I get the principle many fans aren’t going to boycott matches as it’s a pretty significant cost at £700+ a season and if they give it up then there is currently a waiting list of 20,000 waiting to prise it from your grasp meaning it’s 5-10 years before you get a season ticket back. Why should the normal fan be punished so severely? 

The solution is the clubs, the league, the police and the government developing a backbone and coming up with some sort of offensive behaviour bill that allows for banning orders, sanctions, the club being banned from competing in the domestic cups or points deductions. No one wants to see that happen and it forces those supporters to make a choice where there is a real and tangible impact. 

[Molotov]

6 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

Whilst I get the principle many fans aren’t going to boycott matches as it’s a pretty significant cost at £700+ a season and if they give it up then there is currently a waiting list of 20,000 waiting to prise it from your grasp meaning it’s 5-10 years before you get a season ticket back. Why should the normal fan be punished so severely? 

The solution is the clubs, the league, the police and the government developing a backbone and coming up with some sort of offensive behaviour bill that allows for banning orders, sanctions, the club being banned from competing in the domestic cups or points deductions. No one wants to see that happen and it forces those supporters to make a choice where there is a real and tangible impact. 

Jeezo. I remember the days when Celtic often struggled to hit 20,000 home fans. 

“Celtic 's lowest modern-day attendance came in April, 1984, when just 4926 watched them play”.

[Jinky67]

7 minutes ago, Molotov said:

Jeezo. I remember the days when Celtic often struggled to hit 20,000 home fans. 

“Celtic 's lowest modern-day attendance came in April, 1984, when just 4926 watched them play”.

It’s a speculative figure based on what I’ve seen written elsewhere I can’t confirm it’s accuracy however I do know people that have been on a waiting list for 5 years + 

[BukyOHare]

10 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

Whilst I get the principle many fans aren’t going to boycott matches as it’s a pretty significant cost at £700+ a season and if they give it up then there is currently a waiting list of 20,000 waiting to prise it from your grasp meaning it’s 5-10 years before you get a season ticket back. Why should the normal fan be punished so severely?

I don't think you are getting it though. If you choose to keep attending then you're as well putting your fingers in your ears and saying la la la la.

The defence of I don't want to give up my season ticket because of a massive waiting list to take it from me isn't really a defence at all.

Certainly to those looking in from the outside who see this behaviour as totally abnormal.

Honestly if it was my club I'd be attending no longer, regardless.

Just out of interest, where do you draw the line at chants where it would stop you attending?

[Bigmouth Strikes Again]

Dock them points, chant bile at the game? 3 points to the other side.

Problem solved.

Thank you.

[Jinky67]

28 minutes ago, BukyOHare said:

I don't think you are getting it though. If you choose to keep attending then you're as well putting your fingers in your ears and saying la la la la.

The defence of I don't want to give up my season ticket because of a massive waiting list to take it from me isn't really a defence at all.

Certainly to those looking in from the outside who see this behaviour as totally abnormal.

Honestly if it was my club I'd be attending no longer, regardless.

Just out of interest, where do you draw the line at chants where it would stop you attending?

Mate when I came out of the forces with a MD for combat related PTSD I was an absolute fucking mess mentally. One of the things that really helped me was getting to the football and watching my team and for 90 minutes it helped me escape the absolute madness that’s in my head and it still does to this day. I can’t really explain it in a way that will ever make sense to you because much of the time it doesn’t even make sense to me however that’s my illness.

Life isn’t simple nor is it binary, going to the football for some people is massively important, there are a couple of older guys on our bus who are now both widowed and going to the football is about the only social interaction they have with anyone, I couldn’t ever imagine challenging them to give it up due to a few fannies who can’t behave themself. That doesn’t seem fair does it? 

You are however very much entitled to your opinion which I will obviously respect 

 

 

 

[Crawford]

Solving sectarianism and general twattery at matches is simple. 

1 ticket per person. ID must be provided. You are responsible for yourself and if an under 18 seat is bought, the adult is responsible for them.

If you engage in being an absolute c**t at a game, you get a lifetime ban and your ID is blacklisted.

2 minutes on a toilet and it's fucking sorted.

[RawB93]

Slightly worrying the amount of people that think more invasive security measures at public events is the way forward.

The only people responsible for the bigotry are the bigots themselves.

[Shadow Play]

5 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

Mate when I came out of the forces with a MD for combat related PTSD I was an absolute fucking mess mentally. One of the things that really helped me was getting to the football and watching my team and for 90 minutes it helped me escape the absolute madness that’s in my head and it still does to this day. I can’t really explain it in a way that will ever make sense to you because much of the time it doesn’t even make sense to me however that’s my illness.

Life isn’t simple nor is it binary, going to the football for some people is massively important, there are a couple of older guys on our bus who are now both widowed and going to the football is about the only social interaction they have with anyone, I couldn’t ever imagine challenging them to give it up due to a few fannies who can’t behave themself. That doesn’t seem fair does it? 

You are however very much entitled to your opinion which I will obviously respect 

 

 

 

Fair play to you Jinky for taking the time and discussing all this at length.  Realistically, as you have suggested, I take your point it could be difficult / dangerous for the average fan to directly challenge the fans causing the issue.  

Here’s a suggestion - I’m not long back from the dentist so maybe I’m still in shock and the idea is completely flawed but what better place than P&B to discuss it though:  

Every time league officials note significant offensive chanting from away fans the next time the same club plays at the same venue their fans are barred BUT the away club still have to financially compensate the home club to the same value of tickets that were sold for the original tie.  Sounds radical but the message would soon get out and who knows, maybe it would allow more families to attend certain games in the knowledge they will not be subjected to verbal nonsense from the away stand.

[Jinky67]

10 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

Fair play to you Jinky for taking the time and discussing all this at length.  Realistically, as you have suggested, I take your point it could be difficult / dangerous for the average fan to directly challenge the fans causing the issue.  

Here’s a suggestion - I’m not long back from the dentist so maybe I’m still in shock and the idea is completely flawed but what better place than P&B to discuss it though:  

Every time league officials note significant offensive chanting from away fans the next time the same club plays at the same venue their fans are barred BUT the away club still have to financially compensate the home club to the same value of tickets that were sold for the original tie.  Sounds radical but the message would soon get out and who knows, maybe it would allow more families to attend certain games in the knowledge they will not be subjected to verbal nonsense from the away stand.

It’s clearly an issue that upsets a lot of people so I don’t see any merit in not being engaged in the conversation about how it should be tackled, fan dialogue is important however it can’t solely be down to the fans to solve and I don’t see a way that it can with fan action alone. I take the other posters point about being worried about more invasive measures being implemented however if the appetite is there to truly rid the stands of any offensive behaviour/singing etc then I think the only thing that will make clubs and fans act is something punitive. 

 

 

[Crawford]

44 minutes ago, RawB93 said:

Slightly worrying the amount of people that think more invasive security measures at public events is the way forward.

The only people responsible for the bigotry are the bigots themselves.

More invasive? How is it currently invasive?

At the moment anyone can buy a ticket, rock up, commit any number of hate crimes or isms as they like in a 90+ minute window and go home.

If they assign seats with photo IDs, the only people that are punished isn't the 99% that can behave, but rather the 1% ruining the game for everyone else.

Accountability isn't a negative, it's the solution.

[BukyOHare]

1 hour ago, Jinky67 said:

Mate when I came out of the forces with a MD for combat related PTSD I was an absolute fucking mess mentally. One of the things that really helped me was getting to the football and watching my team and for 90 minutes it helped me escape the absolute madness that’s in my head and it still does to this day. I can’t really explain it in a way that will ever make sense to you because much of the time it doesn’t even make sense to me however that’s my illness.

Life isn’t simple nor is it binary, going to the football for some people is massively important, there are a couple of older guys on our bus who are now both widowed and going to the football is about the only social interaction they have with anyone, I couldn’t ever imagine challenging them to give it up due to a few fannies who can’t behave themself. That doesn’t seem fair does it? 

You are however very much entitled to your opinion which I will obviously respect 

 

 

 

No thats absolutely fair enough mate, massive credit for what you've gone through and continue to battle with. All the very best and I sincerely mean that.

If I've overstepped a mark then I wholeheartedly apologise for it.

[Jinky67]

46 minutes ago, BukyOHare said:

No thats absolutely fair enough mate, massive credit for what you've gone through and continue to battle with. All the very best and I sincerely mean that.

If I've overstepped a mark then I wholeheartedly apologise for it.

You have nothing to apologise for mate honestly, unless you interact with me often you would have no way of knowing any of that . I’m quite open about it now which wasn’t always the case and like I said going to the football really helped me get back out, socialise and have something to look forward to and be happy about. Over time i then began to see more people where going to the football really helps them with their mental health or overcome loneliness etc however it doesn’t mean that because football helps you in some way that you then get a free pass to sing or shout what you want. 
 

 

[Meeniedee]

watching the hibs/hearts game and the commentator says "its end to end stuff" to which rent a gob sutton replied " i wish they were all like that" i get the feeling that that was a dig at our game yesterday

what he seems to forget that what he witnessed at dens yesterday is what the rest of us witness everytime his beloved celtic get ragdolled in europe by a decent team.

[stressball]

1 hour ago, Crawford said:

More invasive? How is it currently invasive?

At the moment anyone can buy a ticket, rock up, commit any number of hate crimes or isms as they like in a 90+ minute window and go home.

If they assign seats with photo IDs, the only people that are punished isn't the 99% that can behave, but rather the 1% ruining the game for everyone else.

Accountability isn't a negative, it's the solution.

Some folk think it’s an outrage that they get searched going into football games

 

@Jinky67our season ticket waiting list is now capped so if you lose your season ticket now you’re never getting it back.