Anderson declares for Scotland

[Skyline Drifter]

19 minutes ago, adamntg said:

Would he have been capped for England?  I know his story about the under 21s, I’m not sure how honest it is. 
 

I’ll let it go as a maybe. 

The u21s story is true. He was on the bench for England's 21s and didn't get on and then declared for Scotland. I suppose only McCall and the coaching staff that day know if it's true that he was told to warm up as going on and instead chose to stay as far away from the bench as possible until the final whistle. It's been part of a very public record for long enough that if it wasn't true I'd imagine whoever the coach in question was would have denied it by now.

McCall played a long time at the top level in England and Scotland at a time when half the Rangers team was playing for England. I think he'd have played for England ok, not as regularly as he did for us undoubtedly but he'd have been a regular for a while.

[craigkillie]

59 minutes ago, adamntg said:

None of those guys were in with a sniff of playing for England. 
 

What I’m saying is that when I see we’ve a young guy from Man Utd who was born in England in the under 17s, that if he turns out to be the new Paul Scholes or Phil Foden, more than likely he’ll end up playing for England.

If he ends up being Liam Palmer or Jordan Rhodes he’ll stick with Scotland .

If’s not a criticism of them or us, it’s just hard to get excited about someone who can quite easily just walk away if they become the kind of player to really move the team forward. 

Lots of these guys were in the academies of Premier League clubs at the time they started playing for Scotland, and many of them were still young when they received their first senior call-up. Oli McBurnie, for example, was a 21 year-old Premier League striker when he made his Scotland debut, and he would move for nearly £20m a year later. Anyone doing that at that age is going to be seen as a future England player.

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

Tierney is another who could have played for England, but opted for us after not being able to find sufficient Irish heritage.

[adamntg]

I think you’re all missing the point really. 
 

McTominay is the only example I can think of someone who had a genuine chance of playing for England - indeed, he was already on their radar - and turned them down to play for Scotland instead.  I won’t get excited about Jack Kingdon or the other Man Utd youngsters who were born in Manchester until they’re on the park wearing dark blue.  And even then, as Declan Rice has shown, that might not be enough. 
 

Karamoko Dembele switched to England first chance he got and he had no connection to them other than accident of birth almost as tenuous as Phil Bardsley. 

Edited Wednesday at 13:37 by adamntg

[craigkillie]

Your "point" questions the motivations of dozens of players who have proudly played for Scotland at whatever level over the last two decades or more. There are loads of players who were born in England but who would basically never give another country apart from Scotland a second thought.

[adamntg]

Louis Jackson at Man U, that’s the other one I couldn’t remember. 

[adamntg]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

Your "point" questions the motivations of dozens of players who have proudly played for Scotland at whatever level over the last two decades or more. There are loads of players who were born in England but who would basically never give another country apart from Scotland a second thought.

I know, but most of them aren’t only eligible through their granny, who may have been dead before they were even born.

[adamntg]

We can’t even convince English born kids of Scotland legends to play for us if they’re really, really good. 

Edited Wednesday at 13:37 by adamntg

[BFTD]

Also not getting what the point's supposed to be here. If it's that we should only cap people who have no connections outside of Scotland, we'd be at a huge disadvantage to everyone else.

This might come as a surprise, but not only will there have been many Scotland players who were privately uninterested in the whole concept of nationality or patriotism, but might also have viewed football as a job in the same way that everyone else thinks of their work at the office/factory/brothel/shop. The distance might even have made some better at it.

[oneteaminglasgow]

26 minutes ago, adamntg said:

We can’t even convince English born kids of Scotland legends to play for us if they’re really, really good. 

Assuming you’re on about Darren Fletchers sons, both of them have represented Scotland at one youth level or another. So there’s obviously some ‘Scottishness’ or whatever you want to call it in there, but if they ultimately choose to play for England instead then fair play to them. 

[adamntg]

1 hour ago, BFTD said:

Also not getting what the point's supposed to be here. If it's that we should only cap people who have no connections outside of Scotland, we'd be at a huge disadvantage to everyone else.

This might come as a surprise, but not only will there have been many Scotland players who were privately uninterested in the whole concept of nationality or patriotism, but might also have viewed football as a job in the same way that everyone else thinks of their work at the office/factory/brothel/shop. The distance might even have made some better at it.

No, that wasn’t the point at all. 
 

Point was simply that I personally don’t get too excited by players in Scotland youth teams coming through at big English clubs if they’ve been born in England, cos, to my mind, if they’re really, really good, there’s every chance they’ll end up playing for Them.

It’s no big deal, it wasn’t some blood and soil point or anything, just a slightly depressing view borne of always feeding off their scraps, and then their scraps telling us to ram it as well. 

[adamntg]

1 hour ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Assuming you’re on about Darren Fletchers sons, both of them have represented Scotland at one youth level or another. So there’s obviously some ‘Scottishness’ or whatever you want to call it in there, but if they ultimately choose to play for England instead then fair play to them. 

I know. 
 

My only observation was that if they’re really good they’ll maybe come to Scotland.  If they’re really, really good they’ll likely go to England. 

Edited Wednesday at 15:12 by adamntg

[oneteaminglasgow]

11 minutes ago, adamntg said:

I know. 
 

My only observation was that if they’re really good they’ll maybe come to Scotland.  If they’re really, really good they’ll likely go to England. 

I mean, it’s no surprise whatsoever that most people born and raised in England with some heritage elsewhere will feel predominantly English and maybe with a bit of connection to elsewhere. However, that’s not always going to be the case, and it’s always worth asking the question. Every country loses out on guys they’d have liked to play for them with dual nationalities, including England (Jamal Musiala the main example I can think of recently).

[adamntg]

5 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

I mean, it’s no surprise whatsoever that most people born and raised in England with some heritage elsewhere will feel predominantly English and maybe with a bit of connection to elsewhere. However, that’s not always going to be the case, and it’s always worth asking the question. Every country loses out on guys they’d have liked to play for them with dual nationalities, including England (Jamal Musiala the main example I can think of recently).

Of course.  I think people are reading much more into what I said that was actually there. 
 

I suppose if I were reword it I might say that we’re unlikely to get any genuine world class players to play for us as full internationals if they’re also eligible for England.

[Skyline Drifter]

41 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

I mean, it’s no surprise whatsoever that most people born and raised in England with some heritage elsewhere will feel predominantly English and maybe with a bit of connection to elsewhere. However, that’s not always going to be the case, and it’s always worth asking the question. Every country loses out on guys they’d have liked to play for them with dual nationalities, including England (Jamal Musiala the main example I can think of recently).

Michael Olise too.

[Salvo Montalbano]

2 hours ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Assuming you’re on about Darren Fletchers sons, both of them have represented Scotland at one youth level or another. So there’s obviously some ‘Scottishness’ or whatever you want to call it in there, but if they ultimately choose to play for England instead then fair play to them. 

I thought he was meaning Archie Gray tbh. Or isn't he Eddie's son?

[oneteaminglasgow]

41 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

I thought he was meaning Archie Gray tbh. Or isn't he Eddie's son?

He’s the son of Andy Gray (not that one). Eddie Gray is Archie’s great uncle.

Or so Wikipedia tells me.

[DiegoDiego]

45 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

I thought he was meaning Archie Gray tbh. Or isn't he Eddie's son?

I thought he was meaning Angus Gunn.

[BazMac]

For what it’s worth (nothing), I completely agree with @adamntg’s point and have thought the same in the past. When I see a youngster is actually born in England I know that if they are to become the legendary player we all dream of, they will play for England, so there’s no point getting excited about them.
 

That said… if we were to become a country that caps players young to guarantee them then that might not necessarily be the case, but it’s never been our style.

[Savage Henry]

I see Danny Cadamartari’s son has elected to represent Scotland.  He’s only 15, but I think we should cap him anyway just to be on the safe side.  
 

edit: I can’t be the only one who, when he sees this thread leap to the top, logs on expecting to read that Anderson has changed his mind again?

Edited Wednesday at 19:34 by Savage Henry