Aberdeen's Next Permanent Manager 23/24 Edition

[Bogbrush1903]

53 minutes ago, houston_bud said:

You did get to a cup final though and churned out some decent European performances.

I just think that so many clubs have no real direction, it's almost like a lottery of whether a manager will work out or not. Aberdeen is only one example of it. Glass came in with a different style from McInnes, signed his own players then gets binned. Goodwin comes in with a different style again, signs a load of players, then gets binned. Now Robson. Whoever comes in will no doubt want to offload players and there's no guarantee the team will be in a far better position next season. 

We haven't been quick to fire managers when we appoint the right men at the right time.

McInnes was here seven years, Calderwood lasted six, however since Cormack arrived in 2019 his appointments have been plain wrong.

Robson was the popular choice with the support after the end of last season but the chairman and his board have got to look beyond short term success, or perceived success, and find someone capable and experienced of bringing long term stability.

We've seen with Glass and Robson that the Aberdeen job is not a place to cut your managerial teeth.

Goodwin was appointed with too much haste and, one can only surmise, blinded Cormack and the board with Irish blarney.

Cormack needs someone to guide him but Messers Garner, Milne,  Gunn and Burrows have proved nothing more than Yes men....

Edited February 2 by Bogbrush1903

[houston_bud]

19 minutes ago, DukDukGoose said:

I wouldn't expect you to, but if you were to have a creep on Twitter, you would see the state of our tactics and shape.

Under Goodwin, we were a bit of a soft touch. I think teams underestimated us under Robson and suddenly we're snapping in to tackles, winning second balls.

We've tried to do that again, while signing players who like to get the ball down on the deck and play. It was obvious from Livi away on the first day of the season that it wasn't going to work.

Look at the two games against you guys. I wouldn't say you outplayed us, but you done what Robson wants us to do but also had a manager with a bit of tactical nous behind it. At times against you we literally had a back 5 playing it forward to a front 5. 

If a manager wants to play long ball football, fine. At least sign the talent to play it.

Fair enough, you guys obviously have a much better idea of tactics/performances etc. 

16 minutes ago, Bogbrush1903 said:

We haven't been quick to fire managers when we appoint the right men at the right time.

McInnes was here seven years, Calderwood lasted six, however since Cormack arrived in 2019 his appointments have been plain wrong.

Robson was the popular choice with the support after the end of last season but the chairman and his board have got to look beyond short term success, or perceived success, and find someone capable and experienced of bringing long term stability.

We've seen with Glass and Robson that the Aberdeen job is not a place to cut your managerial teeth.

Goodwin was appointed with too much haste and, one can only surmise, blinded Cormack and the board with Irish blarney.

Cormack needs someone to guide him but Messers Garner, Milne,  Gunn and Burrows have proved nothing more than Yes men....

I'm certain I made a similar point on here, years back when Calderwood got moved on. There was a manager that had done well, but a lot of Aberdeen fans wanted him out. McInnes was the same by the end.

I'm not even having a particular pop at Aberdeen here, it's the whole culture that I don't think allows for much long term improvement of the game. I think more fans have to be willing to accept a bad season sometimes. But I caveat this by saying that in the fans of clubs, of course, have a better knowledge of how the team is doing than outsiders looking in.

[DukDukGoose]

2 minutes ago, houston_bud said:

Fair enough, you guys obviously have a much better idea of tactics/performances etc. 

I'm certain I made a similar point on here, years back when Calderwood got moved on. There was a manager that had done well, but a lot of Aberdeen fans wanted him out. McInnes was the same by the end.

I'm not even having a particular pop at Aberdeen here, it's the whole culture that I don't think allows for much long term improvement of the game. I think more fans have to be willing to accept a bad season sometimes. But I caveat this by saying that in the fans of clubs, of course, have a better knowledge of how the team is doing than outsiders looking in.

Jimmy and Derek never evolved the way they played and most players saw out their contract.

If you look at Derek, Ryan Jack and Kenny McLean left at end of contract, or with 6 months remaining. Both were supposed to be on around £2k with us. Jack quadrupled his wage at Rangers, McLean would have earned even more at Norwich.

You're now trying to replace an £8k a week player with £2k. If you don't adapt then you are going to struggle. That's why it's important for a club like ours to sell players at their max value and reinvest it in the playing squad.

That went against both of those managers philosophies but is pretty much what done them both out of a job.

[Ludo*1]

Gary Bowyer has moved into 2nd favourite with Coral.

[DukDukGoose]

14 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Gary Bowyer has moved into 2nd favourite with Coral.

Hmmm, what's he like?

You guys seemed a bit gutted when he left?

[Ludo*1]

4 minutes ago, DukDukGoose said:

Hmmm, what's he like?

You guys seemed a bit gutted when he left?

Connected with the fans, did a good job winning the league with McPake's team and unable to really do much himself but we did kind of stumble across the line nonetheless. I'd have loved to have given him this season but Docherty has surpassed any reasonable expectations to the point that Bowyer has been forgotten. It was more the fact that Nelms had appointed McCann, McIntyre, McPake & McGhee then disposed of the first competent manager we had in years and were linked with Calum Davidson that caused the outrage.

Certainly not a yes man and clashed with the board regularly demanding higher standards and wasn't really willing to commit long term. He also has an eye for becoming a DoF in the future having did a degree in it. 

Not sure he's deserving of a jump up the totem pole to a club like Aberdeen but he's definitely a safe pair of hands that can get the fans onside.

[VincentGuerin]

2 hours ago, houston_bud said:

You did get to a cup final though and churned out some decent European performances.

I just think that so many clubs have no real direction, it's almost like a lottery of whether a manager will work out or not. Aberdeen is only one example of it. Glass came in with a different style from McInnes, signed his own players then gets binned. Goodwin comes in with a different style again, signs a load of players, then gets binned. Now Robson. Whoever comes in will no doubt want to offload players and there's no guarantee the team will be in a far better position next season. 

Things like cup performance can, and to an extent should, be ignored, or at least only considered alongside the league form.

Aberdeen got to the League Cup final by squeaking past Stirling Albion, squeaking past relegation candidates Ross County, and then being quite jammy to beat Hibs in the semi-final. Fair play, they still got there, but had they drawn Rangers in the quarters or semi, then that run probably doesn't happen. That's fine if you're doing well generally, but against really poor league form it is a weak defence. Goodwin got an easy draw to the League Cup semi last season before running into Rangers. It happens. Robson got a good League Cup draw and essentially a bye to the Scottish Cup quarters. That's no reason to keep him in a job.

I knew Hearts fans who used our run to the cup final in 2019 to defend Levein. We beat Livi, Auchinleck Talbot, Partick Thistle, and ICT to get there. Sometimes these things are best overlooked.

Aberdeen have won ten games domestically this season. Half of them have been against Ross County, Clyde, or Stirling Albion.

I think the only mitigation for Robson is that he's been let down by recruitment. Aberdeen's midfield is unbalanced and their defence is poor. But you can't defend his record. They've spent quite a lot of money and they're eighth in the league.

Edited February 2 by VincentGuerin

[johnnydun]

32 minutes ago, DukDukGoose said:

Hmmm, what's he like?

You guys seemed a bit gutted when he left?

I liked GazBo.

Non offensive, played safe football and got a tune out of a pretty poor squad.

Has a decent eye for a player in the lower leagues down south.

[DukDukGoose]

22 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Things like cup performance can, and to an extent should, be ignored, or at least only considered alongside the league form.

Aberdeen got to the League Cup final by squeaking past Stirling Albion, squeaking past relegation candidates Ross County, and then being quite jammy to beat Hibs in the semi-final. Fair play, they still got there, but had they drawn Rangers in the quarters or semi, then that run probably doesn't happen. That's fine if you're doing well generally, but against really poor league form it is a weak defence. Goodwin got an easy draw to the League Cup semi last season before running into Rangers. It happens. Robson got a good League Cup draw and essentially a bye to the Scottish Cup quarters. That's no reason to keep him in a job.

I knew Hearts fans who used our run to the cup final in 2019 to defend Levein. We beat Livi, Auchinleck Talbot, Partick Thistle, and ICT to get there. Sometimes these things are best overlooked.

Aberdeen have won ten games domestically this season. Half of them have been against Ross County, Clyde, or Stirling Albion.

I think the only mitigation for Robson is that he's been let down by recruitment. Aberdeen's midfield is unbalanced and their defence is poor. But you can't defend his record. They've spent quite a lot of money and they're eighth in the league.

Regarding the unbalanced midfield, that's due to the system Barry wanted to play. No wingers signed and signed another LWB to give us 3, while only having Devlin as a natural right sided full back/wing back and show horning two boys out of position as back up.

[houston_bud]

20 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Things like cup performance can, and to an extent should, be ignored, or at least only considered alongside the league form.

Aberdeen got to the League Cup final by squeaking past Stirling Albion, squeaking past relegation candidates Ross County, and then being quite jammy to beat Hibs in the semi-final. Fair play, they still got there, but had they drawn Rangers in the quarters or semi, then that run probably doesn't happen. That's fine if you're doing well generally, but against really poor league form it is a weak defence. Goodwin got an easy draw to the League Cup semi last season before running into Rangers. It happens. Robson got a good League Cup draw and essentially a bye to the Scottish Cup quarters. That's no reason to keep him in a job.

I knew Hearts fans who used our run to the cup final in 2019 to defend Levein. We beat Livi, Auchinleck Talbot, Partick Thistle, and ICT to get there. Sometimes these things are best overlooked.

Aberdeen have won ten games domestically this season. Half of them have been against Ross County, Clyde, or Stirling Albion.

I think the only mitigation for Robson is that he's been let down by recruitment. Aberdeen's midfield is unbalanced and their defence is poor. But you can't defend his record. They've spent quite a lot of money and they're eighth in the league.

Fair point.

I'm not trying to defend Robson's record for what it's worth, more that three managers in 3 years suggests that the problem is bigger than the manager.

[VincentGuerin]

Just now, houston_bud said:

Fair point.

I'm not trying to defend Robson's record for what it's worth, more that three managers in 3 years suggests that the problem is bigger than the manager.

Oh, absolutely.

Cormack hasn't picked a good one yet. That's his failing.

But punting Robson was the right move.

[Bogbrush1903]

17 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

I think the only mitigation for Robson is that he's been let down by recruitment. Aberdeen's midfield is unbalanced and their defence is poor. But you can't defend his record. They've spent quite a lot of money and they're eighth in the league.

Is that mitigation though or does a strong-minded, confident, experienced manager work with his recruitment team to pinpoint exactly what he needs?

I never got the impression Robson had any grand plan of what he wanted to do tactically, or to be flexible enough to adapt to the opposition. 

Facing teams like St Johnstone, St Mirren and Kilmarnock at home is not like going to venues where we've struggled like Parkhead, Tynecastle or, to a lesser extent, Snake Mountain.

I agree that one shouldn't look too hard at our run to the League Cup Final. Indeed, we never had a home tie, but we were absolutely horrible to watch on both Hampden visits, and the Hibs victory was a stroke of good fortune and a moment of magic from our best player.

[VincentGuerin]

6 minutes ago, Bogbrush1903 said:

Is that mitigation though or does a strong-minded, confident, experienced manager work with his recruitment team to pinpoint exactly what he needs?

I never got the impression Robson had any grand plan of what he wanted to do tactically, or to be flexible enough to adapt to the opposition. 

Facing teams like St Johnstone, St Mirren and Kilmarnock at home is not like going to venues where we've struggled like Parkhead, Tynecastle or, to a lesser extent, Snake Mountain.

I agree that one shouldn't look too hard at our run to the League Cup Final. Indeed, we never had a home tie, but we were absolutely horrible to watch on both Hampden visits, and the Hibs victory was a stroke of good fortune and a moment of magic from our best player.

I think it's mitigation to an extent. Aberdeen have spent a decent amount on the squad, but they're still poor at the back. I think they dallied too long in the summer, seemingly waiting to see if they could get last season's gang back together when they should have been proactive and got centre halves (and a left-back?) in.

Their defence has been shite this season. What's the point in having a good striker if you concede more than a goal and a half a game? And perhaps that weakness at the back had an influence on Robson liking the five at the back? Didn't trust them, basically.

I don't pay a huge amount of attention to their shape, but am I not right in saying that the long-awaited change to 4 at the back hasn't seen an upturn in results?

Edited February 2 by VincentGuerin

[coprolite]

3 minutes ago, Bogbrush1903 said:

Is that mitigation though or does a strong-minded, confident, experienced manager work with his recruitment team to pinpoint exactly what he needs?

I never got the impression Robson had any grand plan of what he wanted to do tactically, or to be flexible enough to adapt to the opposition. 

Facing teams like St Johnstone, St Mirren and Kilmarnock at home is not like going to venues where we've struggled like Parkhead, Tynecastle or, to a lesser extent, Snake Mountain.

I agree that one shouldn't look too hard at our run to the League Cup Final. Indeed, we never had a home tie, but we were absolutely horrible to watch on both Hampden visits, and the Hibs victory was a stroke of good fortune and a moment of magic from our best player.

That’s a good point about the boundaries of the job. Goodwin and Glass both gave the impression that they had a say in recruitment, albeit not the control that McInnes had. Maybe Barry made a noise behind the scenes but gave the public impression of being just 1st team coach 

[DukDukGoose]

2 minutes ago, coprolite said:

That’s a good point about the boundaries of the job. Goodwin and Glass both gave the impression that they had a say in recruitment, albeit not the control that McInnes had. Maybe Barry made a noise behind the scenes but gave the public impression of being just 1st team coach 

Barry had more input than folk think.

Analysts were booted because he was ignoring their work.

Don't be surprised to see more come in now he's away.

[Fifespud]

1 hour ago, DukDukGoose said:

Hmmm, what's he like?

You guys seemed a bit gutted when he left?

Great guy, great manager, better get him snapped up. 

[Stylish Kid]

6 hours ago, houston_bud said:

Can't help but feel sorry for Robson. Gave up a good job to take the position (anyone would've), did well initially, but gets bagged after a year.

I think he'll probably be able to get another job in the Championship where there will be less pressure, but who knows.

I think too many clubs are chasing perfection. It's almost impossible now for a club to have a poor season (not even a terrible one) without bagging a manager or two. Hibs and Aberdeen have been the main culprits of late but I think all teams can be guilty of it. Maybe it's bigger than the manager? If clubs were prepared to give managers 2/3 years to try and build something then they'd maybe see some improvements. 

As for the next manager - Warnock would be a good laugh but he's not exactly a long term fix. 

Yeah I agree with this. I have no doubt that Neilson would have Hearts in 3rd again this season 

18 hours ago, Girth said:

I don't even know who is available atm, aside from...

(1) Yogi

(2) Robbie Neilson

(3) Billy Davies

(4) Neil McCann

(5) Billy Dodds

Any up and comers available that aren't Lord Tony of Docherty!? 

And on the subject of Neilson, he's not long in the door at Tampa Bay Rowdies (The Fannies), and he's presumably done with the "one bad run of games and you're sacked" mentality, so I imagine he's out there for a while yet

[VincentGuerin]

8 minutes ago, Stylish Kid said:

Yeah I agree with this. I have no doubt that Neilson would have Hearts in 3rd again this season 

And on the subject of Neilson, he's not long in the door at Tampa Bay Rowdies (The Fannies), and he's presumably done with the "one bad run of games and you're sacked" mentality, so I imagine he's out there for a while yet

I think without the level of injuries we had last season, Neilson would likely have had three successive third-place finishes. We've had the third-best squad in each of those seasons.

While he was unlucky in that regard, I think a coach can also get to the point where other factors and the response to them have made their position untenable. For Neilson the injuries, the weird situation with Snodgrass, and a loss of form all meant binning him became inevitable. Not all in his control, but the snowball gets you the bullet.

For Robson, I think you can trace a similar line of things that may or may not be his fault. Arguably over-achieving initially, losing important players in the summer, poor recruitment this summer. But, ultimately, he got to a point where there was no way forward.

That's a coach's lot.

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

I personally think Dave's recruitment process is robust and he should keep doing what he's been doing

[kingjoey]

26 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

I personally think Dave's recruitment process is robust and he should keep doing what he's been doing

I personally think I'll ignore that shite.