Aberdeen's Next Permanent Manager 23/24 Edition

[betting competition]

3 hours ago, houston_bud said:

Fair enough, you guys obviously have a much better idea of tactics/performances etc. 

I'm certain I made a similar point on here, years back when Calderwood got moved on. There was a manager that had done well, but a lot of Aberdeen fans wanted him out. McInnes was the same by the end.

Calderwood's tenure doesn't seem impressive, with only two European qualifications and unattractive football. In contrast, McInnes consistently secured European qualifications every season, and the quality of play was enjoyable in the initial four or five seasons.

[VincentGuerin]

2 minutes ago, betting competition said:

Calderwood's tenure doesn't seem impressive, with only two European qualifications and unattractive football. In contrast, McInnes consistently secured European qualifications every season, and the quality of play was enjoyable in the initial four or five seasons.

Calderwood was operating in a much more competitive environment.

[gannonball]

5 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Calderwood was operating in a much more competitive environment.

This. It's not Mcinnes' fault that the **** went bust but it effectively freed up a space for the rest. Add in Hearts going into adminstration and Hibs being very Hibs Calderwoods time at Aberdeen was much different competition wise.

[VincentGuerin]

Just now, gannonball said:

This. It's not Mcinnes' fault that the **** went bust but it effectively freed up a space for the rest. Add in Hearts going into adminstration and Hibs being very Hibs Calderwoods time at Aberdeen was much different competition wise.

Aye. I don't think McIness under or over-achieved particularly, he was given a very good hand.

All clubs make mistakes and Aberdeen fans will point to errors from Cormack etc, but the simple fact is that Aberdeen's fortunes have dipped as the clubs that were in meltdown a decade ago have generally recovered. That's how fitba works, you succeed when others fail.

[PauloPerth]

Of Cormack’s appointments, Glass was the only really bad one.

I think most saw that the appointment was a sentimental, trying to be too clever type move.  

Goodwin had done okay at a team in the same division, improving their cup form and moving them from perennial relegation strugglers to the fringes of top six, so with a bigger budget it wasn’t infeasible that he’d do okay at Aberdeen.

Robson took over a very mediocre team and went on an incredible run to third and European football. The turnaround was phenomenal. If the board had then given it to someone else who underachieved they would be getting pelters for not appointing Robson.

There was nothing about last season to suggest Robson would bomb so badly when given the job permanently.

Yes, neither appointment didn’t work out and ultimately deserved to be punted, but no one’s got a crystal ball, and you can only make the decisions based on the facts at your disposal at the time.

Its easy to assess the decisions based on how they turned out, but at the time of both Goodwin and Robson’s appointments, they were understandable.

[Bogbrush1903]

12 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Aye. I don't think McIness under or over-achieved particularly, he was given a very good hand.

All clubs make mistakes and Aberdeen fans will point to errors from Cormack etc, but the simple fact is that Aberdeen's fortunes have dipped as the clubs that were in meltdown a decade ago have generally recovered. That's how fitba works, you succeed when others fail.

I think McInnes achieved what he should've in the league given the circumstances. That's not to criticise, that's actually praise. Perhaps topping Sevco for a second time was overachievement in the League.

Where, in my opinion, he underachieved was the domestic cup competitions, and to an extent, Europe, although he achieved a couple of notable results against Rijeka and Groningen.

After, one semi-final, there were three teams left in the 2014 Scottish Cup, ourselves, St Johnstone and Dundee United. 

We're 1-0 up as the second half starts against St Johnstone, this should've been the time we swept into the final and finally lift the Scottish Cup after 24 years.

Now, here we are, 10 years later, and aside from misjudged pass from Jonny Hayes in the 2017 final, we've never had as good a chance.

I'm not saying we should expect to lift the Cup in those circumstances, but good managers seize the moment and make sure their players do the necessary.

[Richey Edwards]

BBC reporting that Wayne Rooney has been approached. 

[VincentGuerin]

17 minutes ago, Bogbrush1903 said:

I think McInnes achieved what he should've in the league given the circumstances. That's not to criticise, that's actually praise. Perhaps topping Sevco for a second time was overachievement in the League.

Where, in my opinion, he underachieved was the domestic cup competitions, and to an extent, Europe, although he achieved a couple of notable results against Rijeka and Groningen.

After, one semi-final, there were three teams left in the 2014 Scottish Cup, ourselves, St Johnstone and Dundee United. 

We're 1-0 up as the second half starts against St Johnstone, this should've been the time we swept into the final and finally lift the Scottish Cup after 24 years.

Now, here we are, 10 years later, and aside from misjudged pass from Jonny Hayes in the 2017 final, we've never had as good a chance.

I'm not saying we should expect to lift the Cup in those circumstances, but good managers seize the moment and make sure their players do the necessary.

I think if you go back to summer 2012 and tell Aberdeen fans that, Rangers having just gone, Hearts and Hibs about to go into meltdown, that in the next twelve years they'd win one League Cup, manage group stage football in Europe once, and by 2024 be in the bottom half of the league, that would have been seen as a real failure.

That goes beyond McInnes, and I broadly agree he did fine as Aberdeen manager. All clubs occasionally miss opportunities with cups, that's life. You could argue both Celtic and Aberdeen failed to really capitalise on that period.

I think the mistake is comparing other coaches unfavourably to McInnes. For reasons completely outwith his control he had it easier than Calderwood, Glass, Goodwin, and Robson, and that undoubtedly helped create an idea of him as a really successful coach. But, looking at the environment he was working in, I'd say he comes out at par. Even when Rangers came back, they were shite and Aberdeen had benefited from years of stability and gradual squad building. Hearts and Hibs remained in a rebuilding phase. McInnes couldn't have asked for a fairer hand.

Edited February 2 by VincentGuerin

[Dons_1988]

Mcinnes v calderwood is a fair discussion.

Dont embarrass yourselves by bringing Goodwin, glass or robson into this as anyway comparable 

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, PauloPerth said:

Of Cormack’s appointments, Glass was the only really bad one.

I think most saw that the appointment was a sentimental, trying to be too clever type move.  

Goodwin had done okay at a team in the same division, improving their cup form and moving them from perennial relegation strugglers to the fringes of top six, so with a bigger budget it wasn’t infeasible that he’d do okay at Aberdeen.

Robson took over a very mediocre team and went on an incredible run to third and European football. The turnaround was phenomenal. If the board had then given it to someone else who underachieved they would be getting pelters for not appointing Robson.

There was nothing about last season to suggest Robson would bomb so badly when given the job permanently.

Yes, neither appointment didn’t work out and ultimately deserved to be punted, but no one’s got a crystal ball, and you can only make the decisions based on the facts at your disposal at the time.

Its easy to assess the decisions based on how they turned out, but at the time of both Goodwin and Robson’s appointments, they were understandable.

It was understandable why Hitler acquired the Sudetenland, that didn't make it right...

[Raidernation]

The problem is that DC needs someone to advise him on all things squad/team/tactics wise, not just bring in Willie McManager because it looks good.

Fiscally I am led to believe that we're doing ok, but the on the other hand, football-wise we're a fucking mess and it needs sorted NOW! Not some rent-a-quote temp we need long term planning. If that means League Cup group stages for a couple of years so be it as long as there's real prawgress on the field, with youth development and squad recruitment.

Thanks Dave but piss off into the background please.

[10menwent2mow]

I think it's pretty disingenuous to say that Robson has been unfairly treated or that Dons fans are seeking perfection in any way. 

We have taken so far this season 

3/9 vs Hearts

0/6 vs Killie

1/6 vs St Mirren (via a 100th min pen)

1/3 vs Dundee

0/6 vs Hibs

3/3 vs Motherwell

2/6 vs St Johnstone

6/6 vs County

4/6 vs Livi

Ignoring the games against 'Rangers' and Celtic. To have only taken 5 points from 30 against the 5 teams above us is an absolute disgrace. 

[Dons_1988]

35 minutes ago, 10menwent2mow said:

I think it's pretty disingenuous to say that Robson has been unfairly treated or that Dons fans are seeking perfection in any way. 

We have taken so far this season 

3/9 vs Hearts

0/6 vs Killie

1/6 vs St Mirren (via a 100th min pen)

1/3 vs Dundee

0/6 vs Hibs

3/3 vs Motherwell

2/6 vs St Johnstone

6/6 vs County

4/6 vs Livi

Ignoring the games against 'Rangers' and Celtic. To have only taken 5 points from 30 against the 5 teams above us is an absolute disgrace. 

More worrying is that results have probably benchmarked better than performances imo. 

Dundee, st Johnstone and st Mirren could happily have turned a point into 3 and can’t think of any defeats where we could count ourselves unlucky. Cup games included, east Stirling was not good and hibs was pretty appalling up until the end. 

Motherwell, Ross county games and ibrox are the only games you could really count us as clear and deserving victors all season domestically. 

[VincentGuerin]

34 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

More worrying is that results have probably benchmarked better than performances imo. 

Dundee, st Johnstone and st Mirren could happily have turned a point into 3 and can’t think of any defeats where we could count ourselves unlucky. Cup games included, east Stirling was not good and hibs was pretty appalling up until the end. 

Motherwell, Ross county games and ibrox are the only games you could really count us as clear and deserving victors all season domestically. 

Sky Sports are taking the piss thread for this pish, imo.

[Dons_1988]

17 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Sky Sports are taking the piss thread for this pish, imo.

I was there too. It’s been a very long week. 

[1GregStewart]

4 hours ago, Richey Edwards said:

BBC reporting that Wayne Rooney has been approached. 

Link?

[kingjoey]

8 minutes ago, 1GregStewart said:

Link?

It's @Richey Edwards.

[Richey Edwards]

11 minutes ago, 1GregStewart said:

Link?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64283514

[1GregStewart]

48 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

It's @Richey Edwards.

 

Ah I see, thanks. Presumably 1 of these characters who seeks attention by making things up. He will get more bearable after puberty.

 

[lubo_blaha]

5 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

I think if you go back to summer 2012 and tell Aberdeen fans that, Rangers having just gone, Hearts and Hibs about to go into meltdown, that in the next twelve years they'd win one League Cup, manage group stage football in Europe once, and by 2024 be in the bottom half of the league, that would have been seen as a real failure.

That goes beyond McInnes, and I broadly agree he did fine as Aberdeen manager. All clubs occasionally miss opportunities with cups, that's life. You could argue both Celtic and Aberdeen failed to really capitalise on that period.

I think the mistake is comparing other coaches unfavourably to McInnes. For reasons completely outwith his control he had it easier than Calderwood, Glass, Goodwin, and Robson, and that undoubtedly helped create an idea of him as a really successful coach. But, looking at the environment he was working in, I'd say he comes out at par. Even when Rangers came back, they were shite and Aberdeen had benefited from years of stability and gradual squad building. Hearts and Hibs remained in a rebuilding phase. McInnes couldn't have asked for a fairer hand.

Tbf, the best Motherwell, Dundee United, St Johnstone, Inverness sides of that era would’ve finished ahead of plenty of Hibs or Hearts teams in the last 20 years or so. We definitely had an advantage in terms of recruitment back then though. 

We could have had more cup wins but there’s always a lot of luck associated with them. The real measure is the league, in which we finished 2nd four times in a row with really strong points totals. It’s unfortunate that our team hit its peak once Rodgers arrived in Scotland. We would’ve had a lot more joy with our 16/17 side against 15/16 Celtic.