Trapdoor to Hell

[Boghead ranter]

33 minutes ago, Broonaldo said:

Teams like EK need to find a niche and this will take years to make it sustainable. It’s definitely not a quick fix solved by promotion to L2 / chucking money at it short term - you need to find a way to get kids to support your team to build that supporter base long term, and you need to do that early ….. we all know once you’ve chosen your team, that’s it you don’t switch. And for the smaller teams that’s difficult because kids will follow the “big” / successful teams (basically the OF) and let’s be honest, most will follow the team their Dad supports (again the big teams).

The way to do it is build good kids teams and encourage the kids to support their local team. At Bonnyrigg we have excellent kids coaching for toddlers and all through the age groups. The other thing we’ve encouraged are the “Ultras”, kids aged 8-12 standing behind the goals with their flags, drums, megaphones and songs …. firstly, the wee guys make a great noise which makes a bit of atmosphere and secondly you hope some of these kids will become regular paying fans. Now most of these wee guys will grow up to be Hearts / Hibs paying fans but if you can keep some as Bonnyrigg regulars and others supporting the Rose as their “other” team, then that’s definitely sustainable growth. 

And Caledonia Gladiators are pulling in crowds well above EK levels over at Playsport. OK they also pull in out of towners, but they've grabbed a big slice of the 'attend a sporting event as a family' market already.

[Burnieman]

1 hour ago, Broonaldo said:

Teams like EK need to find a niche and this will take years to make it sustainable. It’s definitely not a quick fix solved by promotion to L2 / chucking money at it short term - you need to find a way to get kids to support your team to build that supporter base long term, and you need to do that early ….. we all know once you’ve chosen your team, that’s it you don’t switch. And for the smaller teams that’s difficult because kids will follow the “big” / successful teams (basically the OF) and let’s be honest, most will follow the team their Dad supports (again the big teams).

The way to do it is build good kids teams and encourage the kids to support their local team. At Bonnyrigg we have excellent kids coaching for toddlers and all through the age groups. The other thing we’ve encouraged are the “Ultras”, kids aged 8-12 standing behind the goals with their flags, drums, megaphones and songs …. firstly, the wee guys make a great noise which makes a bit of atmosphere and secondly you hope some of these kids will become regular paying fans. Now most of these wee guys will grow up to be Hearts / Hibs paying fans but if you can keep some as Bonnyrigg regulars and others supporting the Rose as their “other” team, then that’s definitely sustainable growth. 

A cursory glance at EK's website says;

"The club has more than 20 teams and over 500 players. These range from under 10’s through all age groups up to adult. We also have a thriving Sunday Club for children with Additional Support Needs and an ever growing Girls Section with girls from age 10 to 15 years."

Also, when I was at a game at K-Park earlier in the season, they had a noisy group of young Ultras, and the committee/helpers appear to be mostly younger than 50, which is a rarity at this level.

I'm not a cheerleader for EK, watching football at K-Park isn't a great experience IMO and hopefullly they get a new ground sorted soon, but some of the stuff on here about them is daft and ill informed nonsense.

[Jacksgranda]

3 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

A cursory glance at EK's website says;

"The club has more than 20 teams and over 500 players. These range from under 10’s through all age groups up to adult. We also have a thriving Sunday Club for children with Additional Support Needs and an ever growing Girls Section with girls from age 10 to 15 years."

Also, when I was at a game at K-Park earlier in the season, they had a noisy group of young Ultras, and the committee/helpers appear to be mostly younger than 50, which is a rarity at this level.

I'm not a cheerleader for EK, watching football at K-Park isn't a great experience IMO and hopefullly they get a new ground sorted soon, but some of the stuff on here about them is daft and ill informed nonsense.

The very life blood of P&B...

[RateofKnots]

EK themselves, barring being B team supporting apologists, I have very little against. 

The chicken man, his shtick is dull and he'd abandon EK at the first opportunity if a better offer avails. That I struggle with.

[ExiledLichtie]

38 minutes ago, RateofKnots said:

EK themselves, barring being B team supporting apologists, I have very little against. 

The chicken man, his shtick is dull and he'd abandon EK at the first opportunity if a better offer avails. That I struggle with.

I don't have any thoughts either way about EK or "the chicken man", but wouldn't 90% of managers do that?  Why do you struggle with that?

[RateofKnots]

1 minute ago, ExiledLichtie said:

I don't have any thoughts either way about EK or "the chicken man", but wouldn't 90% of managers do that?  Why do you struggle with that?

It's how he conducts himself. He brought all the money to Darvel, then it vanished with him. I suspect the same will happen at EK. And I don't think that's fair on those with the long term interests of EK at heart.

You are 100% right that the vast majority of managers would do it, but there are enough charlatans involved in SPFL football.

[Burnieman]

9 minutes ago, RateofKnots said:

It's how he conducts himself. He brought all the money to Darvel, then it vanished with him. I suspect the same will happen at EK. And I don't think that's fair on those with the long term interests of EK at heart.

You are 100% right that the vast majority of managers would do it, but there are enough charlatans involved in SPFL football.

EK arent funded by MK, EK have been very well funded long before him.   Also John Gall was the money man at Darvel.

[The Moonster]

3 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

EK arent funded by MK, EK have been very well funded long before him.   Also John Gall was the money man at Darvel.

Is that why Darvel had financial issues and made their entire squad available for transfer right after Kennedy left?

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

4 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

EK arent funded by MK, EK have been very well funded long before him.   Also John Gall was the money man at Darvel.

It must just be a complete coincidence that Darvel cut back as soon as he left and EK started splashing the cash way more extravagantly than they ever have in the past.

[Burnieman]

1 minute ago, The Moonster said:

Is that why Darvel had financial issues and made their entire squad available for transfer right after Kennedy left?

Probably more to do with this;

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/ayrshire/darvel-announce-john-gall-set-32003158

[The Moonster]

3 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Probably more to do with this;

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/ayrshire/darvel-announce-john-gall-set-32003158

Literally every side Kennedy has managed has spent well beyond the level they're at and two of those clubs met financial problems after he left. If you want to pretend this utter goon isn't ploughing his own money into these clubs that's fine, I prefer reality. 

[Burnieman]

1 minute ago, The Moonster said:

Literally every side Kennedy has managed has spent well beyond the level they're at and two of those clubs met financial problems after he left. If you want to pretend this utter goon isn't ploughing his own money into these clubs that's fine, I prefer reality. 

  you really are a zoomer.

[ExiledLichtie]

34 minutes ago, RateofKnots said:

It's how he conducts himself. He brought all the money to Darvel, then it vanished with him. I suspect the same will happen at EK. And I don't think that's fair on those with the long term interests of EK at heart.

You are 100% right that the vast majority of managers would do it, but there are enough charlatans involved in SPFL football.

Again though, isn't that not infrequent?  Maybe not always so commonly in football, but in other sports, there are often personal sponsors or funding associated with an individual rather than a club.  Was it not Wullie Gray at East Fife who took the huff from Raith and ploughed a load of short term money into East Fife.  I don't think its any particular reflection on him.  Plus EK knew what they were getting when they hired him.  I don't see him as any different from many other managers.  

There does seem to be a real loathing for him though, which is interesting, as he just isn't on my radar at all.  Maybe I'll feel differently now Arbroath have been shamed out of the championship and we're back in the cats fighting in a sack leagues.

Edited May 6 by ExiledLichtie

[RateofKnots]

20 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

EK arent funded by MK, EK have been very well funded long before him.   Also John Gall was the money man at Darvel.

I hope EK thrive, whatever the future brings. I made that clear. If you choose to believe MK is a non funding selfless individual, there's not much I can say to change that, obviously. 

[ExiledLichtie]

11 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Literally every side Kennedy has managed has spent well beyond the level they're at and two of those clubs met financial problems after he left. If you want to pretend this utter goon isn't ploughing his own money into these clubs that's fine, I prefer reality. 

Sounds like poor financial management from these clubs.  

[RateofKnots]

1 minute ago, ExiledLichtie said:

Again though, isn't that not infrequent?  Maybe not in football, but in other sports, there are often personal sponsors or funding associated with an individual rather than a club.  Was it not Wullie Gray at East Fife who took the huff from Raith and ploughed a load of short term money into East Fife.  I don't think its any particular reflection on him.  Plus EK knew what they were getting when they hired him.  I don't see him as any different from many other managers.  

There does seem to be a real loathing for him though, which is interesting, as he just isn't on my radar at all.  Maybe I'll feel differently now Arbroath have been shamed out of the championship and we're back in the cats fighting in a sack leagues.

I don't mean this offensively, I promise, but the championship does seem to be it's own bubble, almost impervious to what's going on below them at times. That's not aimed at Arbroath, but the division as a whole. MK certainly has faith in his own ability, no one can accuse him of being modest.

[RateofKnots]

2 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

Sounds like poor financial management from these clubs.  

I don't think anyone would disagree, but who doesn't like to bury their head in the sand when a charismatic individual brings an almost unheard of level of success to a club, and buries the head in the sand in the short term to ride the rainbow?

[FREDDYFRY]

From what I’m led to believe, yes East Kibride are very well funded for the level they work in, however MK has no issue topping this up considerably when required. Which would seem to be very frequently.

Also believe he and perhaps his staff don’t take a wage. 

[ExiledLichtie]

1 minute ago, RateofKnots said:

I don't mean this offensively, I promise, but the championship does seem to be it's own bubble, almost impervious to what's going on below them at times. That's not aimed at Arbroath, but the division as a whole. MK certainly has faith in his own ability, no one can accuse him of being modest.

I've only posted for a couple of seasons (I lurked for a while before that), so I've never really had to interact with the riff raff.  Its going to be a new and exciting experience!

[RateofKnots]

Just now, ExiledLichtie said:

I've only posted for a couple of seasons (I lurked for a while before that), so I've never really had to interact with the riff raff.  Its going to be a new and exciting experience!

Welcome to a very different ride haha