Trapdoor to Hell

[platform 19]

5 hours ago, Clyde01 said:

On their day they were a match for anyone in the lowland league this season. Think they beat EK once but also managed to lose to Edinburgh uni so wildly inconsistent.

It definitely didn’t help that the lowland league starts very early while Albion rovers were still playing in the league cup so they ended up 4 or 5 games behind everyone else for most of the season, playing catch up.

Actually I’d say that most of the EoS & WoS Premier teams are more than a match for most LL teams. Over the past couple of seasons there’s only been Cumbernauld Colts who’ve beaten us. Separatelly we beat East Fife in the SC and  certainly gave Alloa a very testing 90 minutes.

I’m saying that in my experience, there’s not so much between tier 4/5/6 in ability. 
 

Theres also a few right good supported tier six sides that put many in the LL to shame.

The whole thing needs sorted. 
 

[HibeeJibee]

Tranent chastened Darvel on their own park only time this has been tested for real tbf.

Given that EOSL has now sent 4 clubs to SPFL (Edinburgh City, Kelty, Bonnyrigg, Spartans)... and another 6-7 to LL who are still there (Bo'ness, Tranent, Linlithgow, Gala, CSS, Stirling Uni, Broxburn?)... remarkable the issue is even up for debate? Approaches a whole division's worth of strength compared to undiminished WOSL.
 

27 minutes ago, GordonS said:

but for the SFA being assholes they could have been in a play-off against Broxburn this season.

Beith still haven't lights?

Edited May 5 by HibeeJibee

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Beith still haven't lights?

They've been able to get planning permission. Which should mean the ownership issue has been resolved.

If new SFA licensing applications are closed until the AGM. Why go to the expense of throwing them up just now? All that would change for them next season is more midweek home games.

[Nowhereman]

4 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

They've been able to get planning permission. Which should mean the ownership issue has been resolved.

If new SFA licensing applications are closed until the AGM. Why go to the expense of throwing them up just now? All that would change for them next season is more midweek home games.

They could have got planning permission at any time. They wouldn’t need to own the ground to get that. You can obtain planning permission over any land whether you own it or not

[Vanderbilt]

12 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Tranent chastened Darvel on their own park only time this has been tested for real tbf.

Given that EOSL has now sent 4 clubs to SPFL (Edinburgh City, Kelty, Bonnyrigg, Spartans)... and another 6-7 to LL who are still there (Bo'ness, Tranent, Linlithgow, Gala, CSS, Stirling Uni, Broxburn?)... remarkable the issue is even up for debate? Approaches a whole division's worth of strength compared to undiminished WOSL.
 

Beith still haven't lights?

Half of Darvels squad were away on a stag do

[platform 19]

3 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Tranent chastened Darvel on their own park only time this has been tested for real tbf.

Given that EOSL has now sent 4 clubs to SPFL (Edinburgh City, Kelty, Bonnyrigg, Spartans)... and another 6-7 to LL who are still there (Bo'ness, Tranent, Linlithgow, Gala, CSS, Stirling Uni, Broxburn)... remarkable the issue is even up for debate? Approaches a whole division's worth of strength compared to undiminished WOSL.
 

Beith still haven't lights?

Fair point HJ. There is a division full of teams that have went up. Not aware of any making a return journey down the way. 

[Spyro]

4 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

They could have got planning permission at any time. They wouldn’t need to own the ground to get that. You can obtain planning permission over any land whether you own it or not

It was more to do with the terms of the lease rather than planning permission that screwed them

[Scary Bear]

8 hours ago, AUcal said:

I'm all for the pyramid opening up and look forward to seeing the clubs that I like reach the dizzy heights of L2 and beyond. There are some excellent clubs, with decent supports and grounds that make for brilliant away days that I would very much like to see climb the leagues. Opening up the pyramid (and hopefully getting automatic relegation from L2) is undoubtedly a big positive for Scottish football.

That being said, I really hope Stranraer completely sword the chicken man and his soldiers of love and send them back into the abyss.

If I could pick and choose, I’d like to see the likes of Linlithgow Rose and Auchinleck Talbot make it up. The return of Cowden would be nice too. I slagged their ground rotten each and every time I went there but I have come to realise that in comparison to some grounds Central Park is decent enough; toilets are overrated. At least it feels like a proper football ground even with the cage and massive tyres everywhere for the stock cars.

[To B or not B]

18 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

They've been able to get planning permission. Which should mean the ownership issue has been resolved.

If new SFA licensing applications are closed until the AGM. Why go to the expense of throwing them up just now? All that would change for them next season is more midweek home games.

I am led to believe that the license application window will only open for a 6 week period, starting the day after the AGM.

[Burnieman]

5 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Cove literally averaged 583 this season in SPFL1 and haven't been sub-400.

If you took hardheaded economic and social viewpoint 5 clubs who averaged 1,900 in their last SPFL seasons made way for 5 who average 2,900 this season (with 3 having further ascended to SPFL1).

Completely understand some posters wish there was no trapdoor... and that in this year's scenario many have a 'soft spot' for Stranraer or else disinclination to EK (or at least the manager); but some are just mythologizing hardly anybody outside 'the 42' had or has much support (or potential) and/or want up.

HJ, do you have access to the LL average headcounts from when they began? be interesing to see what they for a "plastic club with no fans"

[FairWeatherFan]

14 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

HJ, do you have access to the LL average headcounts from when they began? be interesing to see what they for a "plastic club with no fans"

2018-19*: 215

2019-20*: 164

2021-22: 172

2022-23: 233

2023-24: 273

First couple of seasons had incomplete stats being a new attempt and the shutdown season.

There's been the odd game over the years that may have went higher if it wasn't for the tiny ground. Someone earlier mentioned Linlithgow Rose doing better on average and about a third of their games would exceed K Park's entire capacity.

 

[sydney]

27 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

HJ, do you have access to the LL average headcounts from when they began? be interesing to see what they for a "plastic club with no fans"

From another thread, apparently EK’s average attendance this year was 247. Pretty poor for a winning side in a town of around 80000 people. 
 

I stand corrected by a better informed poster. Seems that 273 is the figure. Still poor. Less than Kelty got. Their crowds went up when they got into the SPFL but down now in League 1, presumably as they’re not winning every week and the novelty has worn off. 

Edited May 5 by sydney
Correction

[Burnieman]

42 minutes ago, sydney said:

From another thread, apparently EK’s average attendance this year was 247. Pretty poor for a winning side in a town of around 80000 people. 
 

I stand corrected by a better informed poster. Seems that 273 is the figure. Still poor. Less than Kelty got. Their crowds went up when they got into the SPFL but down now in League 1, presumably as they’re not winning every week and the novelty has worn off. 

But as has been shown, it's increasing every season and EK are a club that's 10 years old. I'd say it's fairly respectable given they're tier 5, and this season it's comparable to "traditional" clubs Albion Rovers and Cowdenbeath.

If they get into L2, I'd expect it to double at least, and if they get their new ground on the go and provide a better experience than K-Park, it will increase again.

 

[HibeeJibee]

EK on 274 is similar to Spartans last season (313) tbh and they leapt to 536 in SPFL2. Edinburgh City went from <150 (they were printed in their programme) to 400, 326, 403, 324 then 340 in SPFL2.

EDIT: ironically enough 2 seasons ago Albion Rovers averaged 279 and Stranraer averaged 286 in SPFL2 i.e. almost exactly what EK averaged in LL this season... they 'rallied' to 313 and 358 respectively last season, then Stranraer to 389 this season (helped by 535 v Bonnyrigg last month and bumper 738 v Stenhousemuir yesterday).

Edited May 5 by HibeeJibee

[GordonS]

7 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Tranent chastened Darvel on their own park only time this has been tested for real tbf.

Given that EOSL has now sent 4 clubs to SPFL (Edinburgh City, Kelty, Bonnyrigg, Spartans)... and another 6-7 to LL who are still there (Bo'ness, Tranent, Linlithgow, Gala, CSS, Stirling Uni, Broxburn?)... remarkable the issue is even up for debate? Approaches a whole division's worth of strength compared to undiminished WOSL.
 

That's not because the East has been inherently superior, obviously. It's mostly because they got ahead of the West on joining the pyramid. 

Five of the eleven East clubs you mention have been in the pyramid for 10 years, Kelty were in the SPFL before the WoSL had even completed a season, and Bonnyrigg and Spartans followed soon after.

Meanwhile, the WoSFL has only just completed its third season - Darvel were beaten in an upset by Tranent in the first, and Beith c*ck-blocked the next two. We can't draw general conclusions based on the one play-off final we've had so far.

[Sergeant Wilson]

8 hours ago, Burnieman said:

But as has been shown, it's increasing every season and EK are a club that's 10 years old. I'd say it's fairly respectable given they're tier 5, and this season it's comparable to "traditional" clubs Albion Rovers and Cowdenbeath.

If they get into L2, I'd expect it to double at least, and if they get their new ground on the go and provide a better experience than K-Park, it will increase again.

 

...Leaving K Park vacant for sleeping behemoth, Clyde! Scottish football needs a strong East Kilbride rivalry.

[Broonaldo]

9 hours ago, Burnieman said:

But as has been shown, it's increasing every season and EK are a club that's 10 years old. I'd say it's fairly respectable given they're tier 5, and this season it's comparable to "traditional" clubs Albion Rovers and Cowdenbeath.

If they get into L2, I'd expect it to double at least, and if they get their new ground on the go and provide a better experience than K-Park, it will increase again.

 

Teams like EK need to find a niche and this will take years to make it sustainable. It’s definitely not a quick fix solved by promotion to L2 / chucking money at it short term - you need to find a way to get kids to support your team to build that supporter base long term, and you need to do that early ….. we all know once you’ve chosen your team, that’s it you don’t switch. And for the smaller teams that’s difficult because kids will follow the “big” / successful teams (basically the OF) and let’s be honest, most will follow the team their Dad supports (again the big teams).

The way to do it is build good kids teams and encourage the kids to support their local team. At Bonnyrigg we have excellent kids coaching for toddlers and all through the age groups. The other thing we’ve encouraged are the “Ultras”, kids aged 8-12 standing behind the goals with their flags, drums, megaphones and songs …. firstly, the wee guys make a great noise which makes a bit of atmosphere and secondly you hope some of these kids will become regular paying fans. Now most of these wee guys will grow up to be Hearts / Hibs paying fans but if you can keep some as Bonnyrigg regulars and others supporting the Rose as their “other” team, then that’s definitely sustainable growth. 

[platform 19]

5 hours ago, GordonS said:

That's not because the East has been inherently superior, obviously. It's mostly because they got ahead of the West on joining the pyramid. 

Five of the eleven East clubs you mention have been in the pyramid for 10 years, Kelty were in the SPFL before the WoSL had even completed a season, and Bonnyrigg and Spartans followed soon after.

Meanwhile, the WoSFL has only just completed its third season - Darvel were beaten in an upset by Tranent in the first, and Beith c*ck-blocked the next two. We can't draw general conclusions based on the one play-off final we've had so far.

They certainly got in the door first and adopted the pyramid structure.

However when you analyse some of the historical facts on the WoS premier teams being relegated there’s Cambuslang, Petershill and Kilwinning with around TWELVE Scottish cup wins and a further eleven runners up.  I’ve no idea what this would do to any weightings or rankings but there’s a winners history/tradition in the mix. Was recently at Somerville Park which can only be described as fallen grandeur at best. Dont suppose business plans and strategic vision were deemed necessary in those halcyon days. 
wonder where they’d now be if they had actually the foresight to plan and develop.

Theres a lesson in there somewhere.

[Richey Edwards]

Good luck. 

[SLClyde]

The problem EK have is much the same as what we had at Broadwood, the stadium is on the edge of town nowhere near the transport links in the town.