VAR?

[CambieBud]

The biggest winner with VAR is the bookies in my opinion. Maybe I’m just a sore loser, but goals being chopped off for minor infringements in the build up have cost me at least 6 times this season, all over Europe!

[AJF]

3 hours ago, 2426255 said:

For all fans wanting VAR to be got rid and from the poll it looks like an overwhelming majority you'll have to be prepared to accept this kind of thing again. QPR against West Brom last night. No VAR in the championship, so this wasn't picked up and the player got away with it.

One thing that I haven't seen covered is that VAR is also a deterrent. A player would be less likely to try and pull that shit if he knows there's VAR and he'll likely get caught.

That's the thing. People that do want rid of VAR (myself included) have already accepted that there is a trade-off with incidents like the one you posted. Most people realise referees are humans and humans make errors from time to time. How did we manage without it for so long that turned football into the world's most popular sport?

As an aside, I watched that game live last night and in real time thought it was a great clearance. I'd also note no QPR players appealed either so I understand why the ref never gave it, and that's exactly how it would be viewed here if there was no VAR. Obviously fans of the club suffering it will be aggrieved, but football fans accept they will be aggrieved at one point or another if they go to watch football.

Edited March 7 by AJF

[LIVIFOREVER]

20 minutes ago, AJF said:

That's the thing. People that do want rid of VAR (myself included) have already accepted that there is a trade-off with incidents like the one you posted. Most people realise referees are humans and humans make errors from time to time. How did we manage without it for so long that turned football into the world's most popular sport?

As an aside, I watched that game live last night and in real time thought it was a great clearance. I'd also note no QPR players appealed either so I understand why the ref never gave it, and that's exactly how it would be viewed here if there was no VAR. Obviously fans of the club suffering it will be aggrieved, but football fans accept they will be aggrieved at one point or another if they go to watch football.

Thank f**k there was no VAR around for this iconic goal.

 

 

[LiviLion]

That save is hilarious. Folk will be having a laugh thinking back on it for a long time, Kipre being a proper villain for one set of fans, a hero for another, and otherwise providing a funny clip for the rest.

All emotion of that moment would be completely lost with the fun-vacuum of VAR taking a lengthy check, and QPR fans would have been robbed of just how good their equaliser afterwards must have felt.

[2426255]

1 hour ago, AJF said:

Obviously fans of the club suffering it will be aggrieved, but football fans accept they will be aggrieved at one point or another if they go to watch football.

Aye, a trade-off is a trade-off - you don't get to moan about the cons.

If the fans of the club suffering it chose not to have VAR and are still aggrieved when something like that happens then there's no helping them. That's basically my point in a nutshell - fans are impossible to please - they'll take a trade-off and moan about the cons.

I can honestly see why no-one consults them.  

Edited March 7 by 2426255

[AJF]

4 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Aye, a trade-off is a trade-off - you don't get to moan about the cons.

If the fans of the club suffering it chose not to have VAR and are still aggrieved when something like that happens then there's no helping them. That's basically my point in a nutshell - fans are impossible to please. I can honestly see why no-one consults them.  

 

Of course you can still moan about it because ultimately, in the example you provided, the referee got the decision wrong. Just because some people prefer there to be no VAR doesn't mean they lose the right to feel aggrieved at bad decisions, it just means they are willing to accept that they will feel aggrieved from time to time if it means VAR isn't on the scene.

Fans are impossible to please because it is impossible to get every decision correct while maintaining an entertaining product.

[2426255]

6 minutes ago, AJF said:

Fans are impossible to please because it is impossible to get every decision correct while maintaining an entertaining product.

Not just that. Fans have shown time and again they're self-interested, so even with decisions on the margins they aren't interested in fairness. They'll always argue over it and say VAR/refs went against them. That's why I always say it's the fans/clubs and managers that are the issue.

VAR/referees are so anal and granular about decision making to protect themselves because of that shite self interested fan attitude. If fans were more relaxed then we could have a compromise between entertainment and VAR helping on key decisions.

Edited March 7 by 2426255

[AJF]

6 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Not just that. Fans have shown time and again they're self-interested, so even decisions on the margins they aren't interested in fairness. They'll always argue over it and say VAR/refs went against them. That's why I always say it's the fans/clubs and managers that are the issue.

To an extent, yes. However, I have watched plenty (and even attended a couple) of matches with VAR in operation as a neutral where my team aren't playing. I still maintain that VAR greatly diminishes the product and entertainment value.

So without any self-interest in those matches, I still believe it would be far better without VAR. To suggest that all issues stem from the fans or bias is disingenuous, in my opinion.

Edited March 7 by AJF

[2426255]

48 minutes ago, AJF said:

To an extent, yes. However, I have watched plenty (and even attended a couple) of matches with VAR in operation as a neutral where my team aren't playing. I still maintain that VAR greatly diminishes the product and entertainment value.

So without any self-interest in those matches, I still believe it would be far better without VAR. To suggest that all issues stem from the fans or bias is disingenuous, in my opinion.

I'm saying the selfish culture that permeates Scottish football leaves officials caught in the middle. The logical solution for them is a work to rule approach.

That's what we are seeing. It's the fans, media, clubs & managers that need to correct that. Then the var/refs can be less anal and the game can flow.

Is that going to happen? no chance judging by last weekend.

Edited March 7 by 2426255

[KingswellsRed]

If it means we can get back to celebrating goals and doing the things which made attending the football so popular in the first place, then yes I absolutely would accept “errors.”

[RandomGuy.]

Football fans are tribal because thats the whole fucking point.

Its all about emotion and feeling something, even if its complete rage over some bullshit decision against you.

VAR just makes you feel nothing at the game. Sitting waiting for 3 minutes after every goal knowing it might be ruled out because 2 minutes earlier someone had the ball smashed against their hand on the halfway line.

[LIVIFOREVER]

26 minutes ago, KingswellsRed said:

If it means we can get back to celebrating goals and doing the things which made attending the football so popular in the first place, then yes I absolutely would accept “errors.”

Yep, a quick check to see if the lino has his flag up and then you can go full on goal celebration. 

None of this hanging around for 3 to 5 mins after the goal to see if VAR has found a reason not to give it.

[KingswellsRed]

Would some sort of petition be worth a go given the strength of the feeling? Unlikely to work I know.

[RandomGuy.]

39 minutes ago, KingswellsRed said:

Would some sort of petition be worth a go given the strength of the feeling? Unlikely to work I know.

Probably not. Clubs knew how fans felt about it before agreeing to bring it in, and clubs know how fans feel about it now but still dont push for its removal.

Attacking clubs themselves over it will get the best response i think, as just now theyll be happy to see everyone else blamed despite it being their fault (Morton aside).

[2426255]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Football fans are tribal because thats the whole fucking point.

Its all about emotion and feeling something, even if its complete rage over some bullshit decision against you.

VAR just makes you feel nothing at the game. Sitting waiting for 3 minutes after every goal knowing it might be ruled out because 2 minutes earlier someone had the ball smashed against their hand on the halfway line.

VAR is micro analysing the rules and taking so long over decisions because the officials are trying to cover their backs by working to rule. 

If you want to make VAR less intrusive, then get off referees backs and maybe they'll have the freedom to show common sense, let games flow better and let you enjoy the emotional highs and lows.

If you were getting hassled at work, what would you do? i would work to rule.

Edited March 7 by 2426255

[Busta Nut]

Rangers about to lose out to VAR?

Edit: they did

Edited March 7 by Busta Nut

[RandomGuy.]

53 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

VAR is micro analysing the rules and taking so long over decisions because the officials are trying to cover their backs by working to rule. 

If you want to make VAR less intrusive, then get off referees backs and maybe they'll have the freedom to show common sense, let games flow better and let you enjoy the emotional highs and lows.

If you were getting hassled at work, what would you do? i would work to rule.

VAR isnt in place because fans are moaning. Its been brought in by FIFA/UEFA because the "super clubs" were mewling about decisions going against them and costing them millions. The authorities forced it into tournaments, then demanded all domestic leagues follow suit otherwise refs couldnt be involved in those tournaments.

The refs back VAR because without it theyll never ref Champions League/Euros/World Cup games, not because Wee Bob from Larkhall spends his time of Pie and Bovril moaning.

[2426255]

10 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

VAR isnt in place because fans are moaning. Its been brought in by FIFA/UEFA because the "super clubs" were mewling about decisions going against them and costing them millions. The authorities forced it into tournaments, then demanded all domestic leagues follow suit otherwise refs couldnt be involved in those tournaments.

The refs back VAR because without it theyll never ref Champions League/Euros/World Cup games, not because Wee Bob from Larkhall spends his time of Pie and Bovril moaning.

Which is why VAR won't be going anywhere. The way Scottish officials administer VAR has room for maneuver, but it's the Scottish football culture that is making them referee to rule. FIFA/UEFA aren't micro managing our refs/VAR.

So one the one hand understanding VAR is here to stay and on the other that the Scottish football culture is dictating how severely the rules are applied then the conclusion is still the same.

[RandomGuy.]

25 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Which is why VAR won't be going anywhere. The way Scottish officials administer VAR has room for maneuver, but it's the Scottish football culture that is making them referee to rule. FIFA/UEFA aren't micro managing our refs/VAR.

So one the one hand understanding VAR is here to stay and on the other that the Scottish football culture is dictating how severely the rules are applied then the conclusion is still the same.

Refs are struggling because theyre part time, having to learn how to work with VAR and also having to learn laws that are changing every season.

The laws around penalties are due to change again next season.

The fans have literally zero impact on the whole thing. If fans were quiet and never moaned it would still be forced upon us.

[Busta Nut]

f**k me that numbers guys is real tiresome