2426255 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 26 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: This just isn't true. You're not making sense. The basic idea I'm trying to convey is that VAR can't achieve what fans want. We know this because fans weren't happy before VAR or after it. To address the subjectivity and accuracy we see granularity and reduced speed of decision making. The alternative isn't possible because in order to have faster decision making you'd have to sacrifice accuracy and fans won't accept that. We end up with claims of statistical accuracy etc, so it's obvious that's a focus for VAR/referees. Better to get the decision right even if it takes a bit longer - that's their thinking. If we could sacrifice some of the accuracy on subjective and minor decisions then we could improve speed and therefore fan experience. If fans and by extension the other stakeholders can compromise then we could begin to move forward. Until that happens we won't be able to. That's my point. Edited February 28 by 2426255 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Paddy Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 23 minutes ago, The Master said: Being too close to call doesn't mean the player isn't still offside under the laws. If it needs micro-measured, any advantage is negligible, so go with on field decision. Is that unreasonable? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Paddy Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, kingjoey said: The problem that you have is that you have to have set laws. So if a player is 1cm offside and you set that as the law, then you have the same problem as now, but these mental lines have to be drawn 1cm from the last part of the scoring part of the second last defender. You have the same problem in a different place. I don't agree... if you need pixel-fine margins, it's not worth measuring. Go with the human decision, whether right or wrong. Retrospectively use them in ref and AR assessments if you must... promote those that are calling them mostly correct. Re train those that are getting it wrong. Football used to be, for me anyway, about the explosive celebration of a goal. That's been robbed from all of us. Every. Single. Goal. now is sullied with a "ah, wait for the restart" or "is this going to count" It's shite, and I'm sick of it. Edited February 28 by Saint Paddy Typo 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 10 minutes ago, Saint Paddy said: I don't agree... if you need pixel-fine margins, it's not worth measuring. Go with the human decision, whether right or wrong. Retrospectively use them in ref and AR assessments if you must... promote those that are calling them mostly correct. Re train those that are getting it wrong. Football used to be, for me anyway, about the explosive celebration of a goal. That's been robbed from all of us. Every. Single. Goal. now is sullied with a "ah, wait for the restart" or "is this going to count" It's shite, and I'm sick of it. Write to your club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Paddy Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 6 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: Write to your club. No one at my club give much of a toss about supporters, unfortunately 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 12 minutes ago, Saint Paddy said: No one at my club give much of a toss about supporters, unfortunately Ok. Just give up then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Paddy Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 3 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: Ok. Just give up then. Am.... am I being chastised for offering an opinion on football in a football forum? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Just now, Saint Paddy said: Am.... am I being chastised for offering an opinion on football in a football forum? Have you emailed your club about VAR before? Be honest now, Jesus is listening. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Paddy Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 No. I haven't. Until a few weeks ago literally no one in a position of authority gave any thought to fans feelings etc. Stan is steadying the ship, but with new owners on the immediate horizon, I'm extremely doubtful an email from me would make a difference at this time. But according to you, its binary. So I should just give. Or discuss here if there is enough sentiment and application to do.... something? Or not... I'm also quite lazy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 4 minutes ago, Saint Paddy said: No. I haven't. Until a few weeks ago literally no one in a position of authority gave any thought to fans feelings etc. Stan is steadying the ship, but with new owners on the immediate horizon, I'm extremely doubtful an email from me would make a difference at this time. But according to you, its binary. So I should just give. Or discuss here if there is enough sentiment and application to do.... something? Or not... I'm also quite lazy. Fair play. You and your ilk are the enemy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, SJFCtheTeamForMe said: Don't know how many times that needs explained to people. No wonder Wenger suggested it. Football fans are daft enough it seems to think it'll make a difference. All it does is change where the line is drawn. Doesn't solve anything. Next people will be believing the head of refereeing when he claimed the VAR doesn't get much wrong. Just get VAR to f**k. I think you may find that is exactly what I posted, with slightly different words. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJFCtheTeamForMe Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 2 minutes ago, kingjoey said: I think you may find that is exactly what I posted, with slightly different words. Yes. I spent the time agreeing with you. Did it take you a while to work that out? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrational Behaviour Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Definitely a tool used to remove Aberdeen from the top flight. Shafted again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 51 minutes ago, Irrational Behaviour said: Definitely a tool used to remove Aberdeen from the top flight. Shafted again. Don’t be that guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Another prime example yesterday as to how VAR is ruining our sport. A ridiculously long delay to award a penalty at Ibrox at a time when the atmosphere was building, the game was competitive and tempers were boiling over - everything that we love to see. The stoppage killed that for a prolonged period of time and I felt it sapped a lot of the energy that was going around the place. As an aside, it also highlights again how referees are potentially shirking out of decisions. I know we won’t be alone in this, but I believe that’s our last 4 penalties we’ve been given that haven’t been awarded by the on-field referee at the time. I still don’t believe that the St Johnstone handball decision should’ve been retrospectively penalised, but there’s a pattern developing where referees just aren’t making calls it seems. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamba_trio Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 With regard to offside, the law was written with common sense in mind: A player is not offside if he is level with the last defender. The problem is that - mathematically - it’s impossible for two people to be exactly in line. Regardless of how level they may look, there is always a more detailed measurement you can take and, eventually, one will be slightly in front of the other (even if it’s by a billionth of an atom). Drawing lines along the pitch completely ruins the rule because you lose the spirit of it. Player’s can’t be in line any more. You get goals like Shankland’s today being disallowed because he’s a pixel ahead when it isn’t an error that could be spotted without the aid of a computer. That Hearts - Celtic game is a good example for why VAR is a disaster. If we’re going to be getting completely horrendous decisions, just make them in real time so at least it’s quick. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Don't often listen these days but had Sportsound on while driving this afternoon. All the presenters and pundits agreed the problem isn't VAR: it's the refs (on the park and at HQ)... they do not "know the game", they are not "being consistent", and they need some kind of outside intervention or extra help with it. Complete through the looking glass moment (not that they realised) - especially considering media's role in the original clamour for this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 2 hours ago, tamba_trio said: Drawing lines along the pitch completely ruins the rule because you lose the spirit of it. Player’s can’t be in line any more. You get goals like Shankland’s today being disallowed because he’s a pixel ahead when it isn’t an error that could be spotted without the aid of a computer. He wasn't "a pixel ahead". There was clear daylight between the lines. The camera angle made it look closer than it was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, HibeeJibee said: Don't often listen these days but had Sportsound on while driving this afternoon. All the presenters and pundits agreed the problem isn't VAR: it's the refs (on the park and at HQ)... they do not "know the game", they are not "being consistent", and they need some kind of outside intervention or extra help with it. Complete through the looking glass moment (not that they realised) - especially considering media's role in the original clamour for this. And I’m sure they supported it with loads of examples of countries where VAR works flawlessly. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingswellsRed Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 Have never understood the argument that it is not VAR but the people operating it. Have also never understood the idea that VAR makes watching games on tv more entertaining. Shows how out of touch with the fans the pundits are. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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