DiegoDiego Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 27 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Faurly sure Italy, and England (now or soon), have automated offside calls. So its done almost instantly by a computer rather than humans placing the lines as we have. We'll never afford that though. The only technology needed in football, as technology stands, is goal line technology. Hopefully, as with most technology, the price will decrease with time. I'm sure back in the day it was thought only the richest of clubs would ever have floodlights, now you have tier seven clubs with them. I was naive enough to think that VAR would just need a season to bed in and for the officials to get used to it and the process sped up. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to have been much improvement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said: I think those saying it is Scottish refs that are the problem should watch some of the shite decisions made in the money leagues. It's the system that's poor Its not the system though, can you say one instance where the VAR tech failed and it wasn't operator fault Even if theres one or a couple, thats amongst thousands of games with VAR in use 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 7 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said: Its not the system though, can you say one instance where the VAR tech failed and it wasn't operator fault It fails regularly with offside calls, as the cameras arent quick enough to get the exact moment a ball is kicked. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) This thread is depressing. Nothing to do with actual VAR, which anyone with half a functioning brain predicted would be terrible, is terrible, and always will be terrible. More the fucking streak of pish Negative Nancies on here givng it "oooh, it's shite but there's nothing we can do". Get a fucking grip of yourselves and get your fingers out your arses, you spineless c***s. Err, with respect. If you're on here moaning about VAR, then why don't you do one of the following: 1) Write to/email your club's SLO and board of directors. If Motherwell, for example, start receiving dozens of these letters, it becomes an issue they need to address. If you moan about it on P&B, f**k all will happen. Explain your reservations about VAR clearly and respectfully, ask if the club has considered the view on the impact on paying fans in the stadium, remind your club how much of their income is from paying fans, and ask if they have any plans to consult with fans on how VAR is going, and if not, why not. At least hint that you're considering attending fewer games and your ST renewal is in doubt. That gets the c***s' attention. I have done this. Disgracefully, I received no response from either my SLO or the board of directors at my fan-owned club. They'll be getting another letter soon. Why the f**k not? Bombard the c***s. 2) Loads of c***s on here listen to Sportsound every week. We know that from all the fucking moaning about it. Some c**t fucking phone them and, again, respectfully and clearly, explain that the Sportsound panel and SFA shills they have on there are not paying supporters. Explain your experiences and objections, again, hint that you're considering going to fewer games, and raise the issue of why there has never been any meaningful consultation on the issue with the fucking mugs paying £30 a go to watch this pish. I am at a game most weeks, so this is tricky for me. But I have made a solemn vow to some mates that I'm going to do this. I'll be on kidding on to support someone else (if I get on) so none of you c***s will know it's me. It doesn't sound like much, but the VAR converation in the media has moved past "should we have it?" and we need to bring it back to that point. Phone them, you lazy c***s. Same goes for any of our brain-dead contributors, but obviously, you can call Super Scoreboard. Every little helps. Move the conversation to where we want it to be. If they're getting these calls every week, it becomes an issue. 3) Write to the paper. Papers are dying and they'll literally print any old shite. They probably make up half the letters they print (or get some unpaid intern to write them), so they'll be delighted to get a real one. Write out a letter outlining your objection, and send it to all the papers. Someone will print it. If they start getting loads of these, they'll run with them. And if they become a theme, some opportunistic hack will take up the cause as they're all dying for attention and relevance. My letter is nearly finished and will be going to all of Scotland's publications in the next two weeks, I think. Write a letter, you lazy b*****d. So, all you fucking surrender-monkeys on here giving it the "oooh, poor old us, what can we do?", put up or shut up. VAR is shite, but it's up to us to do what we can to try and get what we want. At the moment, the conversation around "should we have VAR?" is off the table, and that's on the supporters. We've let that happen. The first step in getting rid of it is getting that question asked again. I'm serious. If you're reading this and want rid of VAR, then do one, two, or all three of the things I've suggested and we might fucking get somewhere. If you don't, then you're right; f**k all will happen. Stop fucking moaning and do something, you c***s. Respectfully. Viva la revolucion. Edited February 20 by VincentGuerin 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingswellsRed Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 9 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: This thread is depressing. Nothing to do with actual VAR, which anyone with half a functioning brain predicted would be terrible, is terrible, and always will be terrible. More the fucking streak of pish Negative Nancies on here givng it "oooh, it's shite but there's nothing we can do". Get a fucking grip of yourselves and get your fingers out your arses, you spineless c***s. Err, with respect. If you're on here moaning about VAR, then why don't you do one of the following: 1) Write to/email your club's SLO and board of directors. If Motherwell, for example, start receiving dozens of these letters, it becomes an issue they need to address. If you moan about it on P&B, f**k all will happen. Explain your reservations about VAR clearly and respectfully, ask if the club has considered the view on the impact on paying fans in the stadium, remind your club how much of their income is from paying fans, and ask if they have any plans to consult with fans on how VAR is going, and if not, why not. At least hint that you're considering attending fewer games and your ST renewal is in doubt. That gets the c***s' attention. I have done this. Disgracefully, I received no response from either my SLO or the board of directors at my fan-owned club. They'll be getting another letter soon. Why the f**k not? Bombard the c***s. 2) Loads of c***s on here listen to Sportsound every week. We know that from all the fucking moaning about it. Some c**t fucking phone them and, again, respectfully and clearly, explain that the Sportsound panel and SFA shills they have on there are not paying supporters. Explain your experiences and objections, again, hint that you're considering going to fewer games, and raise the issue of why there has never been any meaningful consultation on the issue with the fucking mugs paying £30 a go to watch this pish. I am at a game most weeks, so this is tricky for me. But I have made a solemn vow to some mates that I'm going to do this. I'll be on kidding on to support someone else (if I get on) so none of you c***s will know it's me. It doesn't sound like much, but the VAR converation in the media has moved past "should we have it?" and we need to bring it back to that point. Phone them, you lazy c***s. Same goes for any of our brain-dead contributors, but obviously, you can call Super Scoreboard. Every little helps. Move the conversation to where we want it to be. If they're getting these calls every week, it becomes an issue. 3) Write to the paper. Papers are dying and they'll literally print any old shite. They probably make up half the letters they receive, so they'll be delighted to get a real one. Write out a letter outlining your objection, and send it to all the papers. Someone will print it. If they start getting loads of these, they'll run with them. And if they become a theme, some opportunistic hack will take up the cause as they're all dying for attention and relevance. My letter is nearly finished and will be going to all of Scotland's publications in the next two weeks, I think. Write a letter, you lazy b*****d. So, all you fucking surrender-monkeys on here giving it the "oooh, poor old us, what can we do?", put up or shute up. VAR is shite, but it's up to us to do what we can to try and get what we want. At the moment, the conversation around "should we have VAR?" is off the table, and that's on the supporters. We've let that happen. The first step in getting rid of it is getting that question asked again. I'm serious. If you're reading this and want rid of VAR, then do one, two, or all three of the things I've suggested and we might fucking get somewhere. If you don't, then you're right; f**k all will happen. Stop fucking moaning and do something, you c***s. Repsectfully. Viva la revolucion. I certainly have emailed my club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 39 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: This thread is depressing. Nothing to do with actual VAR, which anyone with half a functioning brain predicted would be terrible, is terrible, and always will be terrible. More the fucking streak of pish Negative Nancies on here givng it "oooh, it's shite but there's nothing we can do". Get a fucking grip of yourselves and get your fingers out your arses, you spineless c***s. Err, with respect. If you're on here moaning about VAR, then why don't you do one of the following: 1) Write to/email your club's SLO and board of directors. If Motherwell, for example, start receiving dozens of these letters, it becomes an issue they need to address. If you moan about it on P&B, f**k all will happen. Explain your reservations about VAR clearly and respectfully, ask if the club has considered the view on the impact on paying fans in the stadium, remind your club how much of their income is from paying fans, and ask if they have any plans to consult with fans on how VAR is going, and if not, why not. At least hint that you're considering attending fewer games and your ST renewal is in doubt. That gets the c***s' attention. I have done this. Disgracefully, I received no response from either my SLO or the board of directors at my fan-owned club. They'll be getting another letter soon. Why the f**k not? Bombard the c***s. 2) Loads of c***s on here listen to Sportsound every week. We know that from all the fucking moaning about it. Some c**t fucking phone them and, again, respectfully and clearly, explain that the Sportsound panel and SFA shills they have on there are not paying supporters. Explain your experiences and objections, again, hint that you're considering going to fewer games, and raise the issue of why there has never been any meaningful consultation on the issue with the fucking mugs paying £30 a go to watch this pish. I am at a game most weeks, so this is tricky for me. But I have made a solemn vow to some mates that I'm going to do this. I'll be on kidding on to support someone else (if I get on) so none of you c***s will know it's me. It doesn't sound like much, but the VAR converation in the media has moved past "should we have it?" and we need to bring it back to that point. Phone them, you lazy c***s. Same goes for any of our brain-dead contributors, but obviously, you can call Super Scoreboard. Every little helps. Move the conversation to where we want it to be. If they're getting these calls every week, it becomes an issue. 3) Write to the paper. Papers are dying and they'll literally print any old shite. They probably make up half the letters they print (or get some unpaid intern to write them), so they'll be delighted to get a real one. Write out a letter outlining your objection, and send it to all the papers. Someone will print it. If they start getting loads of these, they'll run with them. And if they become a theme, some opportunistic hack will take up the cause as they're all dying for attention and relevance. My letter is nearly finished and will be going to all of Scotland's publications in the next two weeks, I think. Write a letter, you lazy b*****d. So, all you fucking surrender-monkeys on here giving it the "oooh, poor old us, what can we do?", put up or shut up. VAR is shite, but it's up to us to do what we can to try and get what we want. At the moment, the conversation around "should we have VAR?" is off the table, and that's on the supporters. We've let that happen. The first step in getting rid of it is getting that question asked again. I'm serious. If you're reading this and want rid of VAR, then do one, two, or all three of the things I've suggested and we might fucking get somewhere. If you don't, then you're right; f**k all will happen. Stop fucking moaning and do something, you c***s. Respectfully. Viva la revolucion. Unless this is all tongue-in-cheek, deliberately offensive humour (which may be doubtful as you’ve said you are serious), then I feel that your somewhat valid points just lose their value because you’re trying too hard to shame and insult people. You don’t know what people have or haven’t done, for one. And to suggest someone shouldn’t voice an opinion of their displeasure regarding VAR unless they have taken some kind of action you’ve dictated just seems rather obnoxious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 3 minutes ago, AJF said: Unless this is all tongue-in-cheek, deliberately offensive humour (which may be doubtful as you’ve said you are serious), then I feel that your somewhat valid points just lose their value because you’re trying too hard to shame and insult people. You don’t know what people have or haven’t done, for one. And to suggest someone shouldn’t voice an opinion of their displeasure regarding VAR unless they have taken some kind of action you’ve dictated just seems rather obnoxious. Fucking hell. 0/10 for being quick on the uptake. FWIW, I'd bet most folk on this thread moaning about VAR have done precisely nothing of use. Edited February 20 by VincentGuerin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Am I right in thinking Morton were the only club to consult their fans? Can any Morton fans confirm what form that took, and if I've missed any consultation from other cubs, it would be handy to hear about it here. Don't want my letters or Sportsound truth-bombs to be full of errors. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 9 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: Fucking hell. 0/10 for being quick on the uptake. FWIW, I'd bet most folk on this thread moaning about VAR have done precisely nothing of use. Well it’s generally impossible to convey sarcasm via written text, which is why I included my opening sentence in the hope that it was 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girth Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Bin VAR and replace with #DeeAR Thank you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, VincentGuerin said: Am I right in thinking Morton were the only club to consult their fans? Can any Morton fans confirm what form that took, and if I've missed any consultation from other cubs, it would be handy to hear about it here. Don't want my letters or Sportsound truth-bombs to be full of errors. In one sense Morton actually weren't any better than any other club because despite being fan owned we didn't get a consultation either, like everyone else they just went ahead and voted. It just so happens that in another sense Morton were in fact better than every other club through being the only one to vote correctly against it, and then publicly cited concerns about the impact on the matchgoing fan experience as the reason for the vote. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 3 hours ago, 54_and_counting said: Would fans prefer 2 officials behind the goals and 4 linesmen to try catch things refs missed? You could have 100 official's behind the goal and 200 linesmen it's not going to make a difference. Subjective calls and self interested fans/players/managers are always going to end with this. "Aye, should've had a free-kick for this, stonewall that, referee's are shite, VAR's shite, No VAR's shite...". As I said before, you reap what you sow, so enjoy it. Edited February 20 by 2426255 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Kirk Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 I don’t expect this will be a popular take but I think that a big part of the problem with VAR is that the slowing down of incidents is exposing flaws in the rules of the game . Personally I think that the laws surrounding offside and hand ball in the box are far too open to interpretation and need to be re- written and tightened up . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well again Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 31 minutes ago, Stevie Kirk said: I don’t expect this will be a popular take but I think that a big part of the problem with VAR is that the slowing down of incidents is exposing flaws in the rules of the game . Personally I think that the laws surrounding offside and hand ball in the box are far too open to interpretation and need to be re- written and tightened up . Celtic are in the process of doing that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezz Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 4 hours ago, VincentGuerin said: Am I right in thinking Morton were the only club to consult their fans? Can any Morton fans confirm what form that took, and if I've missed any consultation from other cubs, it would be handy to hear about it here. Don't want my letters or Sportsound truth-bombs to be full of errors. Motherwell asked members of the ‘Well Society for their views but, if memory serves right, gave us a whopping 48 hours notice before the club vote. Essentially a pointless exercise and only for show as no doubt the club had already decided they were voting it in. FWIW I submitted a pretty lengthy email at the time outlining my reasons for being completely opposed to VAR (most of which have already been mentioned by others on this thread) but unsurprisingly didn’t get any response from the club. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_do_nicely Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) I have a feeling that early on when VAR looked like it was coming in, a few posters pointed out that the media backing for it was pretty much driven by exactly whats unfolded. They don't have to do boring things like talk about how a team pressed intelligently or actually analyse games in any sort of meaningful way (some of them are incapable, but even for the smarter ones that can pick up on little details on how a team is playing during a match, it just isn't sexy/controversial enough) - they can just describe the events as they happen on the pitch almost literally (the Alan Shearer "well he gets the ball, runs forward a bit and then scores a fantastic goal, keeper had no chance" method), knowing that there'll be at least one call that VAR either makes or doesn't make which they can fixate over post-match. This will rumble on for a few days and boom, high quality broadcasting/print journalism that deals with slow news days in their cycle. Get it to f**k. Edited February 20 by Thistle_do_nicely 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 3 hours ago, Stevie Kirk said: I don’t expect this will be a popular take but I think that a big part of the problem with VAR is that the slowing down of incidents is exposing flaws in the rules of the game . Personally I think that the laws surrounding offside and hand ball in the box are far too open to interpretation and need to be re- written and tightened up . The laws have to be open to interpretation because there is literally no other way to have a fair and functioning sport. I promise you that you could sit there and write any "tighter" definition of an offside or handball rule and immediately 5 people on here could drive a truck right through the middle of it. If anything, the problem is that since VAR, the laws for both of those things (especially handball) have become overdefined, and have moved away from basic principles. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Kirk Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 14 hours ago, craigkillie said: The laws have to be open to interpretation because there is literally no other way to have a fair and functioning sport. I promise you that you could sit there and write any "tighter" definition of an offside or handball rule and immediately 5 people on here could drive a truck right through the middle of it. If anything, the problem is that since VAR, the laws for both of those things (especially handball) have become overdefined, and have moved away from basic principles. Yes I think one of the old principles was intent in relation to hand ball . I think intent coupled with un- natural body position would be better than what we have at the moment . I’ve seen penalties this season where defenders have their back turned to play and it strikes a hand , where the ball is so close they can’t get their hands out the way and where they are sliding towards the bye line to block a cross and it strikes a hand or arm supporting their weight. This is a personal bug bear of mine but the point I’m making is that VAR is reviewing these incidents through the prism of poorly worded laws which then lead to inconsistent decisions. Edited February 21 by Stevie Kirk Spelling 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Stevie Kirk said: Yes I think one of the old principles was intent in relation to hand ball . I think intent coupled with un- natural body position would be better than what we have at the moment . I’ve seen penalties this season where defenders have their back turned to play and it strikes a hand , where the ball is so close they can’t get their hands out the way and where they are sliding towards the bye line to block a cross and it strikes a hand or arm supporting their weight. Thus is a personal bug bear of mine but the point I’m making is that VAR is reviewing these incidents through the prism of poorly worded laws which then lead to inconsistent decisions. Once you accept that we can't write laws that will satisfy fans, media and the clubs then it will always take you back to this point. 5 hours ago, 2426255 said: You could have 100 official's behind the goal and 200 linesmen it's not going to make a difference. Subjective calls and self interested fans/players/managers are always going to end with this. "Aye, should've had a free-kick for this, stonewall that, referee's are shite, VAR's shite, No VAR's shite...". The micro-analysis of decisions and the rulebook is obviously going in the wrong direction. I almost feel we have to go that way to see why it's the wrong way to go so we can then move back the other way. It's nothing to do with VAR though. VAR is fine in principle - nothing wrong with it. It's the self interested, can't see beyond their own nose brigade that are the main cause of the issues and I agree, the media probably too. Edited February 20 by 2426255 -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, Thistle_do_nicely said: I have a feeling that early on when VAR looked like it was coming in, a few posters pointed out that the media backing for it was pretty much driven by exactly whats unfolded. They don't have to do boring things like talk about how a team pressed intelligently or actually analyse games in any sort of meaningful way (some of them are incapable, but even for the smarter ones that can pick up on little details on how a team is playing during a match, it just isn't sexy/controversial enough) - they can just describe the events as they happen on the pitch almost literally (the Alan Shearer "well he gets the ball, runs forward a bit and then scores a fantastic goal, keeper had no chance" method), knowing that there'll be at least one call that VAR either makes or doesn't make which they can fixate over post-match. This will rumble on for a few days and boom, high quality broadcasting/print journalism that deals with slow news days in their cycle. Get it to f**k. Michael Stewart was talking about VAR during a game that didnt even have it on Friday. "Pundits" are absolutely obsessed with it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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