Barney Rubble Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 hours ago, Highlandmagar said: Don't think we have played them this century! Leichtenstein we played in 2010-11, famously winning 2-1 at Hampden with a goal in the 147th minute of added time by Stephen McManus, and 1-0 away through the wonderfully named Craig Mackail-Smith. It was during Craig Levein's tenure, so anyone would be forgiven for having erased those games from their cognitive hard-drive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Dave Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Just in. I think tonight showcased how important it is to get a wee bit of pace or someone who can take players on as a plan b. Armstrong injected a tiny bit of it and made a small difference. Would have been nice to have a Fraser to turn too. Even though he's hardly a world beater 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy McJagface Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 In a weird way, perhaps qualifying so early was a bit bad for our momentum. every game since Spain away has felt like we were lacking the intensity we had previously. Hopefully it’s just getting the bad results out the way in time for June… 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 A small crumb of positivity from tonight that hasn't been highlighted is that Liam Cooper looks a far steadier and assured option for the Euro 24 squad than John Souttar did last Friday. Nathan Patterson sadly will need the Webb telescope to locate Everton's first team this season never mind the Euro 24 squad on the basis of that showing tonight. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Tartan Dave said: Just in. I think tonight showcased how important it is to get a wee bit of pace or someone who can take players on as a plan b. Armstrong injected a tiny bit of it and made a small difference. Would have been nice to have a Fraser to turn too. Even though he's hardly a world beater There wasn't loads of space in the Northern Irish final third, so do you think pace have made a big difference? I'm not a tactician, but I assume there is method to how we play. Lot's of teams play like that, most teams that I've seen since Guardiola's Barcelona team. I think we just didn't do it particularly well tonight. It's not easy to pinpoint why exactly. Low blocks are notorious for creating a game like that. I've seen that game play out a million times. We've done it ourselves to other teams. Edited March 27 by 2426255 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 The other take home for me tonight is that North Ireland fans are all fat dickheads. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 5 minutes ago, TheScarf said: The other take home for me tonight is that North Ireland fans are all fat dickheads. Don't forget bald 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 minute ago, 2426255 said: There wasn't loads of space in the Northern Irish final third, so do you think pace have made a big difference? I'm not a tactician, but I assume there is method to how we play. Lot's of teams play like that, most teams that I've seen since the Guardiola's Barcelona team. I think we just didn't do it particularly well tonight. It's not easy to pinpoint why exactly. They were so compact that they were leaving a fair bit of space down both flanks, and we got in behind them quite a few times in wide areas. Unfortunately, when it was down our right the ball went to Patterson who immediately made a mess of it, and down the left it was usually Tierney, who did get the ball into the box a couple of times, but due to that compact NI shape it was next to impossible to pick out a Scottish player. If we had a player with a bit of pace who could take one or two on, then there was the opportunity to exploit that and perhaps have a run and shot themselves, but unfortunately for us it was WB's and Stuart Armstrong, and there wasn't anything for them to really aim at when they did get into decent positions. I think it's another aspect of not really having a clinical, natural predator to play up front. A guy with a bit of pace and killer instinct would see the ball arriving at the corner of their box, recognise that it's not a player on the ball who is going to finish the move themselves, and dart to the near post looking for a tap-in. Instead we've got Tierney knocking it up towards the far post, not finding any of his statuesque team mates, and an NI goon easily dealing with it. It's mentioned up the thread, but our game is really entirely about midfielders running beyond the striker, and any time the opponent lines up in a manner that makes that ineffective we really, really struggle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kebab Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 If we revert to a back four for the tournament and Hickey isn’t available then surely Tierney has to get put in at RB, yes he’s a left sided player but he’s still better in that position than any of our alternatives, so unless Paterson plays in every Everton game from now until the end of the season or until Clarke and Carver head down to Newcastle with masks on, a baseball bat and a length of rope and kidnap Livramento and threaten him with the aforesaid baseball back across the knees then it would have to be an out of position KT!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said: They were so compact that they were leaving a fair bit of space down both flanks, and we got in behind them quite a few times in wide areas. Unfortunately, when it was down our right the ball went to Patterson who immediately made a mess of it, and down the left it was usually Tierney, who did get the ball into the box a couple of times, but due to that compact NI shape it was next to impossible to pick out a Scottish player. If we had a player with a bit of pace who could take one or two on, then there was the opportunity to exploit that and perhaps have a run and shot themselves, but unfortunately for us it was WB's and Stuart Armstrong, and there wasn't anything for them to really aim at when they did get into decent positions. There was no space in the box to use pace as they were defending in a low block. They gave up the wide areas and defended the width of the box, not the width of the pitch and accepted they'd have to deal with cross balls. We didn't get in behind them, we played around them into areas they had conceded. Low block's are effective, that's why we see them at all levels in the game. We didn't have the answers tonight. Edited March 27 by 2426255 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Scotland have won 15 out of our last 21 competitive games and 2 out of our last 19 friendlies. No doubt tonight was extremely disappointing but you only need look at the evidence of our competitive record against our friendly record in recent years to understand where our focus lies. We have routinely been turning up when it matters and we will in June. I believe we will see the Scotland of the Spain game at Hampden and our first hour on Friday, helped by the return of the likes of Hickey and McGregor. When we play with intensity and energy we are a much better side and we'll be ready when it starts. This Scotland team has far more about it than not to turn up in Germany, we have captains at numerous clubs and we have leaders who will sort out the mess that was tonight. Unlike some I still retain huge faith in the Head Coach who has got us to back to back Euro's as well. I firmly believe Scotland will get out of the group and into the knock outs for the first time ever. Naysayers can GTF! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Just now, 2426255 said: There was no space in the box to use pace as they were defending in a low block. They gave up the wide areas and defended the width of the box, not the width of the pitch and accepted they'd have to deal with cross balls. We didn't get in behind them, we played around them into areas they had conceded. That's a fine piece of pedantry considering it's much the same thing. The jist of it is that they weren't bothered about us being able to carry the ball to the area where their box and the touchline intersects, because they were content they could defend any final ball. If they still maintain that willingness to concede possession to us in the same part of the pitch, but instead of a WB on the ball it's a player who is a threat to cut inside, take a player or two on, and engineer a shooting chance, then they have much more to consider than just cutting out and defending a final ball that is going nowhere in any case, and perhaps that prompts them into being a little less compact and comfortable. When we did get the ball wide I also thought we were a wee bit too keen, and a wee bit too quick to get it in to the box in any case, but that can also be a facet of who, precisely, is on the ball and perhaps their one-footedness. If the opponent is so compact that they have 8-9 outfield players in the box, then sometimes it's worth cycling it backwards a bit, perhaps to a player with the foot to cross the ball in an in-swinging manner while the defenders are moving away from their own goal, because that can be what it needs to shake something loose, cause someone to lose their man, or for the ball to drop to someone at the back post. When all you do is immediately carry it straight into the box you're not really doing anything to counteract a lack of movement from your team mates who are already in there. Again, just a facet of the fact that Clarke's tenure is notable for the way he has concentrated on developing one particular system using a small group of players, and hasn't really given us much in the way of variance or a plan B. Granted, we spent most of that game in a back 4, but it was still the FB's doing most of the work out wide just as it is in his preferred 3/5. I don't think it's a coincidence there aren't really any pure winger types in the squad, because we're so limited and one-dimensional in how we play that you wonder if they'd ever see the pitch in any case. I certainly think we could use a player like that in situations like tonight, but instead we have a squad bloated with central midfielders and fullbacks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said: That's a fine piece of pedantry considering it's much the same thing. The jist of it is that they weren't bothered about us being able to carry the ball to the area where their box and the touchline intersects, because they were content they could defend any final ball. If they still maintain that willingness to concede possession to us in the same part of the pitch, but instead of a WB on the ball it's a player who is a threat to cut inside, take a player or two on, and engineer a shooting chance, then they have much more to consider than just cutting out and defending a final ball that is going nowhere in any case, and perhaps that prompts them into being a little less compact and comfortable. When we did get the ball wide I also thought we were a wee bit too keen, and a wee bit too quick to get it in to the box in any case, but that can also be a facet of who, precisely, is on the ball and perhaps their one-footedness. If the opponent is so compact that they have 8-9 outfield players in the box, then sometimes it's worth cycling it backwards a bit, perhaps to a player with the foot to cross the ball in an in-swinging manner while the defenders are moving away from their own goal, because that can be what it needs to shake something loose, cause someone to lose their man, or for the ball to drop to someone at the back post. When all you do is immediately carry it straight into the box you're not really doing anything to counteract a lack of movement from your team mates who are already in there. Again, just a facet of the fact that Clarke's tenure is notable for the way he has concentrated on developing one particular system using a small group of players, and hasn't really given us much in the way of variance or a plan B. Granted, we spent most of that game in a back 4, but it was still the FB's doing most of the work out wide just as it is in his preferred 3/5. I don't think it's a coincidence there aren't really any pure winger types in the squad, because we're so limited and one-dimensional in how we play that you wonder if they'd ever see the pitch in any case. I certainly think we could use a player like that in situations like tonight, but instead we have a squad bloated with central midfielders and fullbacks. You always get this kind of response after this kind of game. We didn't have the answers tonight, that's not in dispute. Their box was rammed with bodies and we didn't have the craft to generate combinations or create many if any good opportunities. Even the best teams can struggle against a low block and I'd say it was more that we didn't play well tonight than there being systemic issues. Probably best to just leave it there as I don't think we'll agree. You can have the last word if you like. Edited March 27 by 2426255 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, Barney Rubble said: A small crumb of positivity from tonight that hasn't been highlighted is that Liam Cooper looks a far steadier and assured option for the Euro 24 squad than John Souttar did last Friday. Cooper's use of the ball was terrible, fine he defended well but it was against a team who barely tried to attack. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 I'm not in disagreement that we didn't play well, I just think there are a few things you can look at and argue that were part of the reason for the poor performance. I can't think of many games where there genuinely has been no explanation afterwards for precisely why the result and performance has been so poor. It does happen from time to time and can just be down to doing most things perfectly correctly and not getting the rub, but I don't believe that was the case in that particular match. We didn't have answers, again, no disagreement there, but I'm happy to have a think about and discuss what the 'answers' might have been and why we didn't have them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 I think poor execution was the biggest issue to be honest, we didn't use the ball quickly enough, and then on the occasions where we worked nice positions the passes were overhit, underhit or in the case of Patterson skewed out of the park every single time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Just now, craigkillie said: I think poor execution was the biggest issue to be honest, we didn't use the ball quickly enough, and then on the occasions where we worked nice positions the passes were overhit, underhit or in the case of Patterson skewed out of the park every single time. I know, the amount of overhit crosses and passes straight out of play must have been a record. You could try and explain that by going into the boots they're wearing, what they had for breakfast or this or that, but sometimes you just don't play well and that's all there is to say. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 It was just a Friendly, but in the context of other recent results it feels even worse than just a shitey performance and result v's a shitey team. I can't really accept how one-dimensional we were. Plan A wasn't working, so we just continued to batter them with Plan A until full time, with the honourable mention of subbing a few players but keeping the approach much the same anyway. Craftier teams would have at least tried something different for five minutes here or there, even if it was just futilely lumping the ball at Dykes, or sitting back, giving NI the ball, and seeing what they did with it. They clearly had no interest in having it or attacking us, so give them it and see if you can mug them? Bit of a harsh reminder that we're probably not as good as we were beginning to believe we were. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 5 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said: Bit of a harsh reminder that we're probably not as good as we were beginning to believe we were. Maybe a healthy reminder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Post match press conference. I thought it was okay, not too p***kly and what he said made reasonable sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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