Partick Thistle (4)🔴🟡⚫️ vs Airdrieonians (3)♦️

[Rhys McCabe Hype Train]

Neither Thistle nor Raith beat the Premiership team, I’m afraid.

[oneteaminglasgow]

2 minutes ago, Rhys McCabe Hype Train said:

Neither Thistle nor Raith beat the Premiership team, I’m afraid.

Depends who it is.

County I think win the tie. Saints I’m less sure, both us and Raith are weaker defensively, but I’m not entirely certain that Saints have the firepower to take advantage of it. 

[Diamonds are Forever]

4 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Depends who it is.

County I think win the tie. Saints I’m less sure, both us and Raith are weaker defensively, but I’m not entirely certain that Saints have the firepower to take advantage of it. 

 

I agree. I think as the Championship side the thing you want to avoid is a side who on their day (or even in about 20 minutes) can bang in 2 or 3 goals from nowhere, as Partick found to their cost last season. Especially at home it looks like Ross County could take 2 or 3 goals off either side and that would be hard to overcome. Whereas even on a good day it's hard to see St Johnstone doing that. They've not scored 3 goals in a league game all season and only scored 2 goals 5 times. I think Raith and Partick would beat St Johnstone over 2 legs. Not sure about County.

[Exiledjag]

11 hours ago, sergie's no1 fan said:

Raith don't play 2 extra games than the Premiership team. 36 +2 is 38, the Premiership club plays 38.

3rd and 4th play extra games as they finished lower in the league than Raith, which is surey in favour of the team finishing 2nd?

 

Which is why I understand a team finishing 4th (also possibly 3rd - would need to check this) has never been promoted to the SPL.

Teams finishing 3rd and 4th would, if they reached the final, play 42 games; the team finishing  2nd 40 games and the SPL team 40 games.

As I stated earlier the number of games is a factor in favour of the SPL team but a bigger advantage is the time frame over which the games are played. This allows virtually no time for proper recovery between the 5th and 6th game.

There is no logical argument against a play-off system of two semi-finals (home and away) and a final (one game). A system loaded with fairness and football integrity!

Such a system would result in more SPL casualties such as Ross County last season where Thistle were clearly the better team over the two games until fatigue set in towards the end of the game at Dingwall. The fatigue factor is undeniable and is something SPL teams plan for in executing their game plan

Oh and in respect of the Dingwall game let's not forget the contribution of the Referee to RC survival.

 

[Chapelhall chap]

22 minutes ago, Chapelhall chap said:

Posting this before catching up but I enjoyed the two games and it was striking ability that mattered in the end.

Been our best season in decades so thanks to Rhys, Dicey on his 200th appearance, and all the squad. 

Thistle will be a challenge to Raith and I can't choose between them. In many ways I hope either of them relegates the 9th place team as it breaks up the comfy top Division. 

When's the season tickets out? I'll just need to suffer  the Euros. 

Apologies. I meant the 11th placed team. Got my formats mixed up. 

[Diamonds are Forever]

1 minute ago, Exiledjag said:

Which is why I understand a team finishing 4th (also possibly 3rd - would need to check this) has never been promoted to the SPL.

Teams finishing 3rd and 4th would, if they reached the final, play 42 games; the team finishing  2nd 40 games and the SPL team 40 games.

As I stated earlier the number of games is a factor in favour of the SPL team but a bigger advantage is the time frame over which the games are played. This allows virtually no time for proper recovery between the 5th and 6th game.

There is no logical argument against a play-off system of two semi-finals (home and away) and a final (one game). A system loaded with fairness and football integrity!

Such a system would result in more SPL casualties such as Ross County last season where Thistle were clearly the better team over the two games until fatigue set in towards the end of the game at Dingwall. The fatigue factor is undeniable and is something SPL teams plan for in executing their game plan

Oh and in respect of the Dingwall game let's not forget the contribution of the Referee to RC survival.

 

 

A 'fair' system wouldn't allow teams finishing 3rd or 4th in a 10 team league (as Thistle did last season) to have any shot at promotion at all. If you don't want to have to play 6 games then you need to finish higher up the league. 

As I said up the thread, I think there is an argument that the 11th place team gets an unfair advantage over the 2nd place team, to me 2nd bottom versus 2nd top should be a fair contest with both sides having to play the same amount of games. But the idea that we should have sympathy for a team finishing 4th having to play more games is ridiculous.

[Exiledjag]

2 hours ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

Don't understand Graham's comments last night about Raith 'sitting with their feet up'. Raith have earned that right through 36 games in the league, if Partick didn't want a tough quarter final they should have finished higher up the league.

Teams that finish 3rd and 4th in the Championship do not deserve the same opportunity as they haven't earned it over the season. 3rd or 4th in a 10 team league shouldn't be enough to earn a promotion therefore they should have to go through a harder schedule to get promoted. That bit is entirely fair.

The team that gets done over by the play-offs is the 2nd place team in my opinion, them having to play 2 ties while their equivalents (2nd bottom in league above) only have 1 tie is unfair.

But the 3rd/4th place don't have anything to moan about, if sporting fairness was any kind of consideration then those 2 teams wouldn't even have a shot at promotion to begin with, they get a shot because it creates great drama like last night.

Every team is entitled to sporting integrity and fairness. That's why I bang on about the unfairness and lack of integrity of the current system. Two semi-finals and a final is fair etc.

If you have a downer on teams finishing 3rd and 4thvwhy don't you advocate a straight play -off between the team finishing 2nd in the championship and the 11th placed team in the SPL - that would be fairer  than the present system.

[Virtual Insanity]

Finishing 11th in a 12 team league should see you relegated more often than not, rather than the other way round. It will never happen obviously but I'd quite like 3rd v 11th and winner plays 2nd.

[Diamonds are Forever]

Just now, Exiledjag said:

Every team is entitled to sporting integrity and fairness. That's why I bang on about the unfairness and lack of integrity of the current system. Two semi-finals and a final is fair etc.

If you have a downer on teams finishing 3rd and 4thvwhy don't you advocate a straight play -off between the team finishing 2nd in the championship and the 11th placed team in the SPL - that would be fairer  than the present system.

 

That is the fairest, play-offs involving teams from the same league are inherently unfair therefore if sporting integrity is the only consideration it would be 2 up 2 down, or as you say a straight play-off between 2nd and 11th.

But I also recognise the excitement and benefits play-offs bring to the league. Therefore I think the middle ground of what we have is fine, it allows more teams to be involved but also makes sure the team that finishes 2nd receives some reward for it.

[RandomGuy.]

26 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

I’m not entirely certain that Saints have the firepower to take advantage of it. 

We do. Kimpioka and Sidibeh are unknowns but both are huge individual threats (Kimpioka in particular makes chances all the time out of nothing if he's 1v1), Nicky Clark remains clinical, and then there's Stevie May.

We just don't set up to use it. Since January, when we signed Kimpioka/Sidibeh to add pace, we've just sat in our shell and pelted long balls over them. 

The one change could be if Wright and Jaiyesimi are both fit. That gives us natural wingers and 4-4-2 with those two on the sides and any of the 4 strikers up front completely changes us (see our win at Pittodrie) into one that can score/create. 

It all falls apart if any of the two wingers can't play though.

[RandomGuy.]

13 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

As I said up the thread, I think there is an argument that the 11th place team gets an unfair advantage over the 2nd place team, to me 2nd bottom versus 2nd top should be a fair contest with both sides having to play the same amount of games. 

Both 11th and 2nd play 38 games before the final?

[jagsfan57]

I don’t really get the argument that 4th in a 10 team league shouldn’t get in a playoff. To my mind it’s a lot harder to get 4th in the smaller league than it would be in a bigger league. And the argument about intensity doesn’t really stack up for us last season either. We had the quarter final tied up 30 mins into the 2nd leg and quarter final 5 mins into the 2nd leg. 
This season is different as we don’t really have anybody on the bench. So essentially it is the same 11 playing each game.

[Fuctifano]

7 minutes ago, jagsfan57 said:

I don’t really get the argument that 4th in a 10 team league shouldn’t get in a playoff. To my mind it’s a lot harder to get 4th in the smaller league than it would be in a bigger league. And the argument about intensity doesn’t really stack up for us last season either. We had the quarter final tied up 30 mins into the 2nd leg and quarter final 5 mins into the 2nd leg. 
This season is different as we don’t really have anybody on the bench. So essentially it is the same 11 playing each game.

Would it be harder to get 4th in a league of 5 or a league of 500000? 

I agree the playoff should be 2nd vs 3rd with 11th straight down. The top flight club has a far bigger budget and should have by far better players. They shouldn't get the chance over two legs against a team with a much smaller budget. 

This isn't just a Scottish issue, the playoffs in Germany are almost always won by the top division team. 

However it's still an improvement on the old one up one down. 

[Uncle Psychosis]

20 minutes ago, Virtual Insanity said:

Finishing 11th in a 12 team league should see you relegated more often than not, rather than the other way round. It will never happen obviously but I'd quite like 3rd v 11th and winner plays 2nd.

A thing I've seen in other sports would work really well IMO, but nobody would vote for it because it increases the relegation spots. Adapting it to Scottish football would be something like - 

11th and 12th are relegated automatically. 

1st is promoted (duh).

2nd plays 3rd, and the winner is promoted. 

The loser of that game then plays 10th, with the winner "promoted". 

[colliedug]

Generally not got a problem with the set up but the final should be played as a one off game at a neutral venue, which would also save on the cost of the championship side having to install VAR for one game opposed to it already being in place at a neutral venue therefore more revenue can be split between the teams involved

Edited May 11 by colliedug

[craigkillie]

2 minutes ago, colliedug said:

Generally not got a problem with the set up but the final should be played as a one off game at a neutral venue, which would also save on the cost of the championship side having to install VAR for one game opposed to it already being in place at a neutral venue therefore more revenue can be split between the teams involved

There will be more revenue from two games than one though.

[Duke Gekantawa]

Personally I like the playoff setup for this division other than the inclusion of the premier team. My preference therefore would be - 11th straight down, with 4thv3rd to play for the right to play 2nd in a playoff final 

[yoda]

The play-offs should be structured in a way that benefits Partick Thistle and Patrick Thistle alone. 

[baba douche]

2 down, 2 up, fucking simple.

If you're 3rd or 4th, tough.

[jagsfan57]

51 minutes ago, Fuctifano said:

Would it be harder to get 4th in a league of 5 or a league of 500000? 

I agree the playoff should be 2nd vs 3rd with 11th straight down. The top flight club has a far bigger budget and should have by far better players. They shouldn't get the chance over two legs against a team with a much smaller budget. 

This isn't just a Scottish issue, the playoffs in Germany are almost always won by the top division team. 

However it's still an improvement on the old one up one down. 

It would definitely be harder in a league of 5 because they will more than likely all be the same standard, which was the point, rather than in your ridiculous example where there will be teams of all different standards.