Seal the trapdoor

[Eadie is God]

The pyramid as limited as it is and riddled with self preservation would never have happened if the SFA hadn’t been leant on by UEFA.

[tamthebam]

It could be argued the pyramid stops the previous practice of vultures waiting for clubs to fold/greedy b*****ds moving clubs

Airdrie United might not have taken over Clydebank 

The New town of Livingston might have seen Livingston United rise up the pyramid instead of pinching another town's club

A certain Edinburgh club might not have made moves to take over Cowdenbeath.

Gers might have re-started in West Division 4 (heh heh)

Let's say there was no Pyramid and you are the multi-millionaire owners of Keast Ilbride. You see that Dunedin Town are a 1st Division club who have been put up for sale by their useless owners. Hey presto, Dunedin are bought over and Keast Ilbride are magically in the 1st Division.

[FairWeatherFan]

23 minutes ago, tamthebam said:

Let's say there was no Pyramid and you are the multi-millionaire owners of Keast Ilbride. You see that Dunedin Town are a 1st Division club who have been put up for sale by their useless owners. Hey presto, Dunedin are bought over and Keast Ilbride are magically in the 1st Division.

Pretty sure something was tried. Weren't they behind the EK Clyde idea.

[MrFizz]

9 hours ago, GallowayBlue said:

Potential solution could be expanding League 2 to 12 and following top flight schedule with split, then 11 and 12 go down automatically, LL and HL champs come up automatically then 10th plays playoff in same format but against HL/LL 2nd place.

That would be my kinda preference. But i would maybe expand Lg2 to 16 clubs, and include 4th bottom in the playoffs.

The Lowland and Highland would also need to bring in a 3 up/3down from their feeder leagues in return.

[Clyde01]

Personally I also think the only way forward on automatic relegation is to increase the size of league 2 by inviting more clubs in as a ‘buffer’. It’s the only way you would get turkeys to even remotely consider voting for Xmas.

As always the finance issue then becomes a massive headache. So we need the sponsor to stump up more cash to cover the (let’s say 6) extra spots.

If we were to go to a larger league 2 that incorporated the old firm b-teams we might be able to get them to foot the bill for extra spots out of their massive wedge of the prize money. But NOBODY wants that shite so we are at a bit of an impasse.

If the lowland league was to take the lead and open up relegation properly it would certainly put pressure on the SPFL to do likewise. However if you are a Cowdenbeath or Berwick then I think they are more looking over their shoulders at the moment than upwards so would vote accordingly.

Edited May 20 by Clyde01

[Sparticus]

16 minutes ago, Clyde01 said:

Personally I also think the only way forward on automatic relegation is to increase the size of league 2 by inviting more clubs in as a ‘buffer’. It’s the only way you would get turkeys to even remotely consider Xmas.

As always the finance issue then becomes a massive headache. So we need the sponsor to stump up more cash to cover the (let’s say 6 extra spots).

If we were to go to a larger league 2 that incorporated the old firm b-teams we might be able to get them to foot the bill for extra spots out of their massive wedge of the prize money. But NOBODY wants that shite so we are at a bit of an impasse.

If the lowland league was to take the lead and open up relegation properly it would certainly put pressure on the SPFL to do likewise. However if you are a Cowdenbeath or Berwick then I think they are more looking over their shoulders at the moment than upwards so would vote accordingly.

Cant just take the rich peoples cash to give them anything they want.

Sell your principles, sell your soul.

[Sparticus]

I'd give league two a massive expansion to 18 teams and a 34 game season.

Plenty spots for the ambitious and fallen to get back.

Then you could really open up three relegtion and playoff spots

[Gordon EF]

Expansion of league size and extension of promotion / relegation between the levels is the only sensible answer to current issues. Whether clubs will ever vote for it is another matter.

At minimum, HL and LL champions should be up automatically. 2nd in HL and LL goes into a play-off with 3rd bottom in SPFL. No way in hell any of that happens with a 10-team League Two.

[GallowayBlue]

12 team league would surely require minimal reallocation of funds.

Okay it would require more than just the League 2 clubs to contribute but if 42 clubs paid in it would surely amount to no more than a few thousand each?

[Clyde01]

16 minutes ago, GallowayBlue said:

12 team league would surely require minimal reallocation of funds.

Okay it would require more than just the League 2 clubs to contribute but if 42 clubs paid in it would surely amount to no more than a few thousand each?

I’ll let you sell that to the Stranraer board. For just a few thousand pounds less in prize money we could massively increase the chances of relegation. Who’s for it? 

[GallowayBlue]

15 minutes ago, Clyde01 said:

I’ll let you sell that to the Stranraer board. For just a few thousand pounds less in prize money we could massively increase the chances of relegation. Who’s for it? 

In both scenarios tenth goes into a playoff.

I guess you're right though, clubs would rather hope that they aren't club 42 than provide a potential route back for themselves.

Presumably the clubs that are down (Brechin etc) now will be hoping for change, but impossible to make that change when you're not at the table.

Difficult one.

Edited May 20 by GallowayBlue

[C_titz]

You can’t close it now . However unlikely it looks for teams already relegated to come back up, that’s them had the door closed forever 

[FREDDYFRY]

Whatever changes are implemented and change to allow movement up and down are needed. However before anything is done the B teams must be removed from the LL, it’s the only why the league will regain its legitimacy.
At least the HL doesn’t have that ridiculous sell out. 

Edited May 20 by FREDDYFRY

[FairWeatherFan]

11 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

The Lowland League to acquire some sponsorship funds (other than payments for participation from "guest" clubs)

This is more of a general point when talking about the non-league, but almost all of this is about what the Lowland League should do. Both the Highland and Lowland have had sponsors. Don't think either one has prize money. Whatever's brought in is usually swallowed by the running costs of the league. The SFL struggled for decent sponsorship. The Lowland and Highland are single divisions out there competing against 3 other leagues covering the same area. There's never going to be meaningful money put in. Its why the Conference League was so small to try and eek out the pittance it would receive. 

With no relegation for Club 42 this year. It means the £40k parachute payment won't be paid. Trying to get a token sum from the SPFL or SFA is probably the best bet for the Highland and Lowland Leagues, not sponsorship.

11 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

(I'm being selfish here) sorting out the structure at tier six – going into the South league would frankly be a death sentence for Annan, Queen of the South or Stranraer, in a way that falling into the West wouldn't necessarily be.

Caledonian Braves would have been relegated to the WoSFL when they still had their South reserve side. The South have been willing to lose teams to the WoSFL. Most importantly Threave Rovers recently. Its not an absolute certainty that a D&G area team coming down from the SPFL would have to go South.

11 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

The Lowland League to become stronger with University sides, clubs playing in glorified cages and guest clubs replaced by decent community clubs, so that it's a decent competition in itself. (While we are probably slowly getting there, this is going to require substantially more licence clubs in the West set up, and then getting promotion.)

There's only the one University now. If the SPFL/SFL clubs were willing to put up with a bunch of amateurs in an empty Hampden for decades due to what they did in the 19th Century. I'm pretty sure part-timers could put up with the best students playing at a lower tier.

Glorified cages might just  be EK and Braves. 2/16.

Guest clubs won't be replaced by proper clubs. Not while the SFA are willing to indulge the constant Colt proposals. As most of the SFA Board and Professional Game Board that make those decisions come from the SPFL. As a member of the SPFL and SFA, might want to ask some questions why the Lowland aren't allowed to expand to 18 real members.

11 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Beefing up the licensing requirements for participation in tier five, not necessarily to Bronze level, but requiring a decent level of covered seating/standing.

With Tier 5 requiring licencing and now promotion to Tier 4 requiring Bronze. This is something that is already happening. 4/16 Lowland grounds are now graded Bronze. That's without counting Albion Rovers, Berwick Rangers, East Stirlingshire, Broomhill, Stirling University that all play at grounds that have hosted SPFL games.

[Burnieman]

28 minutes ago, FREDDYFRY said:

Whatever changes are implemented and change to allow movement up and down are needed. However before anything is done the B teams must be removed from the LL, it’s the only why the league will regain its legitimacy.
At least the HL doesn’t have that ridiculous sell out. 

And yet, it's SPFL clubs who have the B teams in the LL and it's the SPFL clubs who bring 12 of them them into the diddy cup every season for the last decade.

But the Lowland League is the problem?

 

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

15 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

And yet, it's SPFL clubs who have the B teams in the LL and it's the SPFL clubs who bring 12 of them them into the diddy cup every season for the last decade.

But the Lowland League is the problem?

 

[Jack Burton]

21 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

And yet, it's SPFL clubs who have the B teams in the LL and it's the SPFL clubs who bring 12 of them them into the diddy cup every season for the last decade.

But the Lowland League is the problem?

 

The SPFL clubs from the Championship down have been fighting to keep them out the league setup for years. Whatever shite Colt proposal the Old Firm comes up with each year usually doesn't even go to a vote because they know it has no chance of passing. 

The Lowland clubs voted them into the their league the first chance they got and continue to do so. The lowland league very much is the problem on this. 

[Burnieman]

1 minute ago, Jack Burton said:

The SPFL clubs from the Championship down have been fighting to keep them out the league setup for years. Whatever shite Colt proposal the Old Firm comes up with each year usually doesn't even go to a vote because they know it has no chance of passing. 

The Lowland clubs voted them into the their league the first chance they got and continue to do so. The lowland league very much is the problem on this. 

Who voted the Colt/B teams into the diddy cup in 2016 which is only for clubs from the Championship down? I guess that would be the SPFL clubs.

The SPFL clubs continue to be happy for them to play in it, and if you're looking for the seeds of why B/Colt teams exist in Senior football, that's it.

Why aren't the clubs from Championship down voting to remove them from the diddy cup?

Someone else above was highlighting the fact there's no prize money in the LL, so SPFL clubs Rangers and Celtic (and a season later Hearts) offer a sizeable chunk of cash to the LL and unsurprisingly clubs take it.   I don't think it was right and it should never have happened, but I can understand why league/clubs took the dough and continue to do so.

The SFA Conference proposal to accomodate SPFL B teams would have probably been passed until the fans got involved and most lower SPFL clubs decided voting against was perhaps the wiser course of action.

SPFL, SPFL, SPFL......the Lowland League is far from being the problem here.

[FREDDYFRY]

At the risk of railroading the theme of this thread and apologies for doing so:

As far as the B teams in the diddy cup is concerned I have articulated my opposition to that from day one… in fact I have not attended a diddy cup game since that ridiculous decision was made.
I said at the time it was the thin edge of the wedge and was a way the “big” teams would get their wish and their B teams in the league. 
Long may the opposition to this ever happening  be fought, mainly by supporter's I have to say as the media and pundits float it every year as a good thing and a pathway to producing international players of the future, what utter utter nonsense!

[BullyWeeStonehouse]

12 hours ago, Jan Vojáček said:

Should go to a public vote each season imo. East Kilbride? Nah. Linlithgow Rose? Come on up! 

We could do a Eurovision style points system and go live around the grounds. 
 

“Hullo, Gala Fairyden calling. Our 12 points go to… Civil Service Strollers!”