Dundee United 24/25

[Granny Danger]

Looked to me that Meshack dived and wasn’t surprised by the yellow.  I was disappointed by his contribution overall but there’s a number of our players I could say that about.

[Dundee Hibernian]

How Luca Stephenson lasted the full match is a mystery to me: expected to see Miller Thomson on for the second half, said as much in the match thread, but it was more due to Stephenson's poor positioning and distribution that I wanted him replaced. 

Never expected the daft lunge.

[Gibby82]

Walton, the back three, Ferry, Docherty, Moult should be first picks if fit. The rest I've still no idea, personnel or formation. All still seems imbalanced and rudderless and we're trying to shoe horn players in. Though there is the makings of a team in there somewhere.  

[Granny Danger]

The two North Macedonians have lost their spark and the VdS experiment isn’t working.  It’s a pity Moult didn’t start last night and whilst the change in formation and personnel paid off we still looked lacking in ideas.

I said on the match thread that despite our league position I dint think we’d been great so far this season and that was borne out in the first 45 minutes were we couldn’t capitalise on our slight advantage.

Goodwin seems to know what he’s wanting to achieve but I’m worried that even if it’s not going to work he will be reluctant to change things.

Our next three games are away to Kilmarnock, away to St Mirren then at home to Hibs.  If his team selection, formation and tactics don’t get us four points then he has to look at alternatives.

 

Edited Saturday at 07:15 by Granny Danger

[adamntg]

Have now seen the two penalties back and can’t argue with either decision.  Shame, I like a good moan.   

Will have to restrict myself to complaining about Motherwell’s blatant time wasting when they were in front, as if we never do that, and that Beaton only added another minute despite the penalty and subsequent pitch invasion taking almost three off the clock. 

[WhatDayIsIt]

2 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

The two North Macedonians have lost their spark and the VdS experiment isn’t working.  It’s a pity Moult didn’t start last night and whilst the change in formation and personnel paid off we still looked lacking in ideas.

I said on the match thread that despite our league position I dint think we’d been great so far this season and that was borne out in the first 45 minutes were we couldn’t capitalise on our slight advantage.

Goodwin seems to know what he’s wanting to achieve but I’m worried that even if it’s not going to work he will be reluctant to change things.

Our next three games are away to Kilmarnock, away to St Mirren then at home to Hibs.  If his team selection, formation and tactics don’t get us four points then he has to look at alternatives.

 

The slight change of system with the extra midfielder hasn't helped Babunski & Trapanowski.  That change also has meant a lack of width on the right hand side.  I think with the players we have the best system will be 4-2-3-1.  This would let Babunski play in the number 10 role where he can be more effective and it would give VDS more players around him if he is to be kept as a starter (no issue with Moult or Dalby getting a run of games just now though).

[Granny Danger]

22 minutes ago, WhatDayIsIt said:

The slight change of system with the extra midfielder hasn't helped Babunski & Trapanowski.  That change also has meant a lack of width on the right hand side.  I think with the players we have the best system will be 4-2-3-1.  This would let Babunski play in the number 10 role where he can be more effective and it would give VDS more players around him if he is to be kept as a starter (no issue with Moult or Dalby getting a run of games just now though).

We definitely have the players to play that system but Goodwin, like most managers, is very stubborn.

Another two or three games using the existing system to see if we can get it to click is ok, but if it doesn’t then someone at the club needs to have a word.

 

[ArabFC]

1 hour ago, WhatDayIsIt said:

The slight change of system with the extra midfielder hasn't helped Babunski & Trapanowski.  That change also has meant a lack of width on the right hand side.  I think with the players we have the best system will be 4-2-3-1.  This would let Babunski play in the number 10 role where he can be more effective and it would give VDS more players around him if he is to be kept as a starter (no issue with Moult or Dalby getting a run of games just now though).

It's eye-bleedingly obvious that Babunski plays better centrally.

I know, I know, we are but humble fans and the professionals have been studying and playing the game all their lives.

But, sometimes, the obvious is obvious to all but the man in charge. 

We saw Goodwin briefly change to 4 at the back to allow Babunski to become that third man in midfield against Rangers, but the stubborn buggar has reverted to type.

[Glen Scotia]

Been saying for a couple or weeks now, when VDS plays it has to be in a 2 up top and for me Moult starts ahead of all our strikers 

[Butters Scotch]

Not against going to a back four as on paper I think we have the players to fit that pretty well but you would lose some of the attacking output that Ferry provides as he will not have a LCB to cover his position properly and will have to limit his forward forays. 

I think one of the major issues in the team isn't the formation as such but it's the balance. Stephenson isn't great going forward yet this system heavily relies on our wing backs for width and to help get in behind the opposition. Hopefully once Strain is back then we will be more creative with a proper attacking RWB and give the opposiiton something else to worry about as I feel other teams are targetting our left hand side more as they know that's where our danger comes from.

Another issue is playing Holt in midfield when we play with two CM's, he's far too slow and cumbersome at taking the ball in and making forward passes, most passes are just backwards or sideways as he gets closed down after needing to take an extra second on the ball compared to a Docherty let's say.

 

[Sarto Mutiny]

I would hope after the Rangers game that the experiment of Kevin Holt in midfield is now over

[Granny Danger]

12 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said:

Not against going to a back four as on paper I think we have the players to fit that pretty well but you would lose some of the attacking output that Ferry provides as he will not have a LCB to cover his position properly and will have to limit his forward forays. 

I think one of the major issues in the team isn't the formation as such but it's the balance. Stephenson isn't great going forward yet this system heavily relies on our wing backs for width and to help get in behind the opposition. Hopefully once Strain is back then we will be more creative with a proper attacking RWB and give the opposiiton something else to worry about as I feel other teams are targetting our left hand side more as they know that's where our danger comes from.

Another issue is playing Holt in midfield when we play with two CM's, he's far too slow and cumbersome at taking the ball in and making forward passes, most passes are just backwards or sideways as he gets closed down after needing to take an extra second on the ball compared to a Docherty let's say.

 

I agree that a change to a back four will reduce Ferry’s effectiveness but there’s plenty of teams who play a back four where a DM player drops in when a FB is making a forward run.  We need to balance any potential loss of Ferry’s contribution against getting the best out of other players in particular Trapanovski and Babunski both of whom started the season very well but have faded.

[ArabFC]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

I agree that a change to a back four will reduce Ferry’s effectiveness but there’s plenty of teams who play a back four where a DM player drops in when a FB is making a forward run.  We need to balance any potential loss of Ferry’s contribution against getting the best out of other players in particular Trapanovski and Babunski both of whom started the season very well but have faded.

Indeed, plenty of left backs have been able to get forward well - even for us - without requiring the freedom of a wing-back role.

[PartyFears2]

Both Dundee sides must’ve agreed to play strong sides in the B-Derby 

[Glen Scotia]

Defensively we have looked good so far, so why change it?

It's the attacking side we should be focusing on and looking to change imo 

I'm not against dropping Trap for Moult and playing a 3-5-2

[ArabFC]

2 hours ago, Glen Scotia said:

Defensively we have looked good so far, so why change it?

It's the attacking side we should be focusing on and looking to change imo 

I'm not against dropping Trap for Moult and playing a 3-5-2

Because your solution to keep 3 centre-backs is dropping the guy who has possibly been our most attacking threat this season, which is not great when we've only scored 6 goals. 

[Glen Scotia]

1 hour ago, ArabFC said:

Because your solution to keep 3 centre-backs is dropping the guy who has possibly been our most attacking threat this season, which is not great when we've only scored 6 goals. 

But we have looked more of a threat with 2 strikers? 

[Glen Scotia]

4 hours ago, PartyFears2 said:

Both Dundee sides must’ve agreed to play strong sides in the B-Derby 

3-0 win on penalties

[Gibby82]

No chance he's going to a back four.

13 September 2024

Jim Goodwin says the benefits of a summer he spent scouring the world to devise a formation that best suits his Dundee United side are starting to show.

After stepping up from the Championship, United have made a blistering start to the season.

They are unbeaten in eight games in all competitions and sit third in the Premiership going into Sunday's Tannadice showdown with Rangers.

Goodwin said: "We are very much a 3-4 -3 in attack. We want to try and be aggressive in the top end of the pitch out of possession, but then we are quite willing at times to drop back into a 5-4-1 low block and frustrate the opposition.

"The 3-4-3 is a system that a number of teams in Europe have adopted. I spent the summer pretty much analysing all these top teams all over the world and trying to come up with a system we feel would suit our recruitment process and the players we already have under contract.

"This one has taken a little bit of time for the players to get used to, because a number of them haven't been involved in it before, but there are certainly signs in recent weeks that there is now a clear understanding of what we look like in and out of possession."

[ArabFC]

2 hours ago, Gibby82 said:

No chance he's going to a back four.

13 September 2024

Jim Goodwin says the benefits of a summer he spent scouring the world to devise a formation that best suits his Dundee United side are starting to show.

After stepping up from the Championship, United have made a blistering start to the season.

They are unbeaten in eight games in all competitions and sit third in the Premiership going into Sunday's Tannadice showdown with Rangers.

Goodwin said: "We are very much a 3-4 -3 in attack. We want to try and be aggressive in the top end of the pitch out of possession, but then we are quite willing at times to drop back into a 5-4-1 low block and frustrate the opposition.

"The 3-4-3 is a system that a number of teams in Europe have adopted. I spent the summer pretty much analysing all these top teams all over the world and trying to come up with a system we feel would suit our recruitment process and the players we already have under contract.

"This one has taken a little bit of time for the players to get used to, because a number of them haven't been involved in it before, but there are certainly signs in recent weeks that there is now a clear understanding of what we look like in and out of possession."

I don't doubt it, but worth noting he said that before switching to a back 4 for the first time this season during the Rangers game.

Obviously the last thing he'll want to do having spent the summer recruiting for a specific formation, is to throw that out the window, but then, we'll continue to see Babunski looking like a lost fish out on the right.

The fact he switches to a 352 nearly every game now is fairly illustrative that even he can see it's not working.

VdS knocks his pan in (in a role I really don't think suits him) before he brings on the two forwards.

It's nothing if not predictable.