Old Bing Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 13 minutes ago, SlayerX said: Its Craig Brown for me. People give credit for Steve Clarke solving the puzzle of the lack of center backs, but he only copied Craig Brown's blueprints of a back three. 5 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said: Give it a rest with the back three thing man I'd say thats some pretty solid advice for you there slayer -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 25 minutes ago, SlayerX said: Its Craig Brown for me. People give credit for Steve Clarke solving the puzzle of the lack of center backs, but he only copied Craig Brown's blueprints of a back three. Also, In Euro 96 there were 16 teams. As opposed to 24 teams now. Qualifying for a 16 team tournament, especially with the lack of depth in defence and attack, was extraordinary. People beat Craig Brown with the "He never blooded young players" stick, but when you consider the youngsters at the time were Gary Holt, Stephen Hughes, Darren Mackie, Keigan Parker, Stephen Simmons, Gavin Rae, etc, he wasn't exactly sitting on a golden generation. Brown considered anyone under 25 a youngster His 98 squad was much worse than this one in terms of left out options as well. Not taking Neil McCann in order to have Scot Gemmill do nowt was criminal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 Also, Craig Brown introduced Barry Ferguson. It wasn't Brown's fault that the SFA and the Old Firm neglected youth academies. Players like Ferguson, Fletcher, McFadden were happy accidents rather than design. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Bing.McCrosby said: I'd say thats some pretty solid advice for you there slayer Nah. Go to my posting history. I'd be flabbergasted if I mentioned it more than five times in my previous 100 posts. That's sparce. Plus it is the system that we use, what do you want me to call it? The defensive trinity? Edited June 5 by SlayerX 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lubo_blaha Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 37 minutes ago, SlayerX said: Nah. Go to my posting history. I'd be flabbergasted if I mentioned it more than five times in my previous 100 posts. That's sparce. Plus it is the system that we use, what do you want me to call it? The defensive trinity? You've mentioned it well more than five times recently 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 4 minutes ago, lubo_blaha said: That's quite a fucking brilliant stat! Perfect antidote to the negativity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 5 hours ago, Pocketman said: this gets trotted out quite regularly. I watched the highlights recently and Leighton was solid in terms of punching away a few crosses but had only one big save of note to make and even then the Swedish striker blasted it against his torso - see the 4.29 mark from the link below. Either the highlights have edited out all the spectacular saves that Leighton made or Leighton's exploits have been embellished year on year. https://www.facebook.com/scotlandnationalteam/videos/scotland-1-0-sweden-10-november-1997/663004832112616/ This. It was a backs to the wall, hanging on type performance from the team for ages. We defended heroically and rode our luck. Leighton made a good save and held out well. He celebrated enthusiastically on full-time. His individual display has been wildly exaggerated though. It's what people do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 1 hour ago, effeffsee_the2nd said: Italy also had a perfectly good goal disallowed that would have made it 2-0. Also with it being 1-1 in the 89th min we were out anyway as we had to win that game! we were anything but robbed in that game lol And this too. People who cite that game as evidence of Scotland suffering some grave injustice, should in turn be incarcerated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 14 minutes ago, lubo_blaha said: Incredible stat. It makes all the doom mongers look all the more out of touch 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bing Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 14 minutes ago, SlayerX said: Incredible stat. It makes all the doom mongers look all the more out of touch I think ive only read a few predictions on here that have us getting hammered every game. It maybe seems more as people repeat themselves. I think we should and will get through the group. Most of the result predictions were positive also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 49 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: This. It was a backs to the wall, hanging on type performance from the team for ages. We defended heroically and rode our luck. Leighton made a good save and held out well. He celebrated enthusiastically on full-time. His individual display has been wildly exaggerated though. It's what people do. We've had this debate before, but I was there, and it's the only time I've ever seen a Scotland 'keeper look unbeatable under sustained pressure for 80 odd mins (after our neat early goal). A good number of crucial saves, rushing out, angles etc to thwart a determined Sweden. He was excellent that day. The fans weren't chanting "there's only one Jim Leighton" for no reason. It's not just rear view mirror fan romanticism - the press clearly identified Leighton as the key man in our team: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-leighton-saves-the-day-1351758.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lubo_blaha Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 59 minutes ago, Gordopolis said: That's quite a fucking brilliant stat! Perfect antidote to the negativity. There’s a caveat in that the others were at the World Cup but impressive nonetheless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocketman Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 5 hours ago, Gordopolis said: We've had this debate before, but I was there, and it's the only time I've ever seen a Scotland 'keeper look unbeatable under sustained pressure for 80 odd mins (after our neat early goal). A good number of crucial saves, rushing out, angles etc to thwart a determined Sweden. He was excellent that day. The fans weren't chanting "there's only one Jim Leighton" for no reason. It's not just rear view mirror fan romanticism - the press clearly identified Leighton as the key man in our team: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-leighton-saves-the-day-1351758.html just watch the highlights.- that's a myth 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB_Bino Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 13 hours ago, GordonS said: As much love as there is for him, I still think Steve Clarke is underrated. He's the only manager that has solved the puzzle of our very unbalanced squad and his stint at Kilmarnock was the most impressive managerial spell I've seen in Scottish football. What he did with the resources available, without really adding to the squad given to him, was outrageous. His record before that was under-recognised too. I was a big Broon fan in the day but I'm picking Clarke. I'd take him over Smith or peak McLeish too. IMO you have to go back to Ferguson and Stein for comparisons. People forget about where he finished in his 1 season as West Brom manager as well. The only reason he left was that Preece was selling the club and thought he would get more for the club with a more flamboyant manager and bigger global name. Roy Hodgson may have set the foundations but Clarke did a fantastic job. 12 hours ago, SlayerX said: People beat Craig Brown with the "He never blooded young players" stick, but when you consider the youngsters at the time were Gary Holt, Stephen Hughes, Darren Mackie, Keigan Parker, Stephen Simmons, Gavin Rae, etc, he wasn't exactly sitting on a golden generation. I was at a sportsman's dinner a few years back and Brown mentioned this during his speech and said the same. He did want to bring younger players into the squad but at the time Sky money was swishing around, clubs were binning youth projects to sign cheap overseas players and he just didn't see talent that he felt could make the step up at that time or at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 34 minutes ago, BB_Bino said: I was at a sportsman's dinner a few years back and Brown mentioned this during his speech and said the same. He did want to bring younger players into the squad but at the time Sky money was swishing around, clubs were binning youth projects to sign cheap overseas players and he just didn't see talent that he felt could make the step up at that time or at all. Wee Craig was always a spin master. I'll say this, if Steve Clarke had been picking the 98 squad I doubt he'd have left Callum Davidson and Gary Naysmith out to take 33yo Tosh McKinlay who had been loaned out to Stoke because his legs were gone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 10 hours ago, Pocketman said: just watch the highlights.- that's a myth Sick of this circular debate, so decided to watch it in full at: My takeaway is that he had a quiet first half, then an increasingly pivotal role in the second half, intensifying as the Swedes got more and more desperate towards full time. I think the cumulative effect of the Swedish pressure, and Leighton's commanding response to it, is why his performance is so fondly remembered. Here's his main involvements: 2:40 - rushes out to collect when Dahlin thru on goal 56:05 - closes down angle on Thern 1:08:17 - good save from Blomqvist Interestingly, commentator says "He hadn't had a save up till then" 1:10:09 - punch away from a corner, quickly followed by... 1:10:14 - ...save from a drive from outside the box by Jonas Thern after seeing it late 1:24:11 - races to smother as Larsson readies to shoot into an empty net 1:25:31 - races out to smother and save when Kennet Andersson is thru one on one 1:31:00 - rushes out to punch away from Sweden players head 1:34:15 - commanding catch from corner (a few more of these, but more routine) Kudos also to the Scotland defence, who put in some pretty awesome tackles as the pressure ramped up. Also it's true that the Swedish finishing was infuriatingly bad - in that they had something like a dozen shots fizz wide. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocketman Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 14 minutes ago, Gordopolis said: Sick of this circular debate, so decided to watch it in full at: My takeaway is that he had a quiet first half, then an increasingly pivotal role in the second half, intensifying as the Swedes got more and more desperate towards full time. I think the cumulative effect of the Swedish pressure, and Leighton's commanding response to it, is why his performance is so fondly remembered. Here's his main involvements: 2:40 - rushes out to collect when Dahlin thru on goal 56:05 - closes down angle on Thern 1:08:17 - good save from Blomqvist Interestingly, commentator says "He hadn't had a save up till then" 1:10:09 - punch away from a corner, quickly followed by... 1:10:14 - ...save from a drive from outside the box by Jonas Thern after seeing it late 1:24:11 - races to smother as Larsson readies to shoot into an empty net 1:25:31 - races out to smother and save when Kennet Andersson is thru one on one 1:31:00 - rushes out to punch away from Sweden players head 1:34:15 - commanding catch from corner (a few more of these, but more routine) Kudos also to the Scotland defence, who put in some pretty awesome tackles as the pressure ramped up. Also it's true that the Swedish finishing was infuriatingly bad - in that they had something like a dozen shots fizz wide. Leighton was solid and competent which for a Scotland goalkeeper is something that probably does stay in the memory. Your descriptions add a little drama to jazz up what is otherwise routine stops and punches in my view. And I say this as someone with no axe to grind on this beyond it slightly irritates me (irrationally) when statements around that game invariably appear. Such as this first comment from a google search: Anyhow, trivial AF, I completely agree and entirely subjective depending on any emotional attachment particularly if at the game (which I wasn't which make my peeve even more irrational ha). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeMan Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 25 minutes ago, Pocketman said: Anyhow, trivial AF, I completely agree and entirely subjective depending on any emotional attachment particularly if at the game (which I wasn't which make my peeve even more irrational ha). I have this attachment about Gordon in the two wins over France. Can't remember many details ( )but just feel he was immense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Algebraist Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 29 minutes ago, TeeMan said: I have this attachment about Gordon in the two wins over France. Can't remember many details ( )but just feel he was immense. I remember near the death in Paris what should have bee a dangerous header go straight to his gloves and thinking "that's it done". He looked like cool personified. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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