Will we qualify out the groups

[2426255]

29 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Getting past the first round of a tournament at the twelfth attempt is an achievement as it breaks a mental barrier. You only have to look at how many people assume we're going to f**k this up "because this is what we do" to see that's bound to be a factor.

Aye, it just a bit of fear from past events probably with a dose hedging your bets in case things go south chat added in. 

"Of course we won't qualify, thats what we do. Happy to be proved wrong" 

[immcinto]

5 hours ago, ArabFC said:

Bless you for thinking this might be a problem.

And after that that we get two 2nd place teams in QF. Probably Netherlands or Belgium. No problem for the QF but the SF looks really tricky

[Piehutt]

Very much remember getting excited at this stage of Euro 96 and France 98 that we only had to beat the weakest team in the group. In the end a win wasn't enough at Euro 96 and ironically wouldn't have been in France 98 either. 

Have to say I didn't get too ahead of myself in 2021 as Croatia were clearly going to be a different task, and such was the balance of play in the 1st half I wasn't even that excited when we equalised as I just couldn't see us getting a win. 

However this is a different story. It's a game that we definitely can win. I doubt we'll start as favourites, but we showed enough last night that if we can put in as good a shift, we'll give ourselves chances. 

I'm sure Hungary will be thinking they've played well for no reward, but are still in it. Realistically they probably need a 3 goal win to have a chance, so that brings it's own pressure for them. 

It's 28 years since we've actually won a game one of these things. If anyone needed reminding about the task in hand. 

[BFTD]

Just occurred to me that I've only seen Scotland win one game at a tournament - Switzerland in 1996.

• too young in 78/82
• no idea what I was doing for Sweden in 1990 - probably dragged away from the TV by family, as I watched most of that World Cup
• stuck in the middle of a forest on a school trip for the CIS in 1992 - didn't even know the Danes had won the whole thing until I got home

That's yer lot  

[Scooby_Doo]

9 hours ago, VictorOnopko said:

Yeah, this... We were the first team to go home from a World Cup unbeaten with a win and two draws in 1974 and went out on GD by 1 goal.  We also went out by a single goal in WC 78 and Euro 96, and 2 goals in WC82, each time with 4 points (yes I know the system is more generous in these Euros). One goal against Uruguay would have got us through in 86. We weren't even miles off it at the last Euros when we were 1-1 with Croatia in the final match.  I'm not sure if any other country has had so many close failures to get out of the groups.

TL/DR - we have plenty of historic form for going home by a very narrow margin.

Wasn't the single goal at Euro '96 scored by Patrick Kluivert, who should have been doing porridge for killing someone in his motor?

Or did I swallow tabloid pish 28 years ago?

[Scooby_Doo]

I'll remain steadfast then, in blaming the Dutch judiciary system and Uri Geller.

[Bogbrush1903]

On 20/06/2024 at 08:09, VictorOnopko said:

Yeah, this... We were the first team to go home from a World Cup unbeaten with a win and two draws in 1974 and went out on GD by 1 goal.  We also went out by a single goal in WC 78 and Euro 96, and 2 goals in WC82, each time with 4 points (yes I know the system is more generous in these Euros). One goal against Uruguay would have got us through in 86. We weren't even miles off it at the last Euros when we were 1-1 with Croatia in the final match.  I'm not sure if any other country has had so many close failures to get out of the groups.

TL/DR - we have plenty of historic form for going home by a very narrow margin.

If we put some meat on the bones of that though, we decided to showboat against Zaire rather than go for more goals, and at one point The Lawman remonstrates with that little racist for doing keepie uppies with the ball in the middle of the park. We also managed to go home unbeaten thanks to a last minute goal against Yugoslavia when all was already lost.

1978 and the Dutch had already qualified and weren't playing at full throttle when we beat them, after what must rate as one of the worst Scottish performances ever against Iran. However, it might've been all so different if Don Masson had scored the penalty against Peru, though Willie Johnston's failed drug test would've seen us lose the points anyway.

1982 switched off against New Zealand in match we're winning comfortably and from that point onwards we give our group opponents the advantage...similar tale to Zaire

1986..not to critical, difficult conditions and cynical opponents in Uruguay.

1990...stirring performance against Sweden, unlucky against Brazil and one of those days against Costa Rica. I think we were unlucky in this tournament.

1992...we had already punched well above our weigh by qualifying...a great effort

1996..we did really well, in my opinion our best effort at a finals tournament. Brown could have been more adventurous tried to get the second against Switzerland.

1998...it was a case of after the Lord Mayor's show after the opening match against Brazil. Disappointing tournament.

2021...Missed opportunity really especially against Czech Republic, but you'd hope to qualify with a possible three from four qualifying and two of the three matches on home soil.

But really in a group of three matches and four teams, you'd expect to be reasonably close to reaching the next stage if you've managed to navigate through the European qualifying.

[Binos]

11 minutes ago, Bogbrush1903 said:

If we put some meat on the bones of that though, we decided to showboat against Zaire rather than go for more goals, and at one point The Lawman remonstrates with that little racist for doing keepie uppies with the ball in the middle of the park. We also managed to go home unbeaten thanks to a last minute goal against Yugoslavia when all was already lost.

1978 and the Dutch had already qualified and weren't playing at full throttle when we beat them, after what must rate as one of the worst Scottish performances ever against Iran. However, it might've been all so different if Don Masson had scored the penalty against Peru, though Willie Johnston's failed drug test would've seen us lose the points anyway.

1982 switched off against New Zealand in match we're winning comfortably and from that point onwards we give our group opponents the advantage...similar tale to Zaire

1986..not to critical, difficult conditions and cynical opponents in Uruguay.

1990...stirring performance against Sweden, unlucky against Brazil and one of those days against Costa Rica. I think we were unlucky in this tournament.

1992...we had already punched well above our weigh by qualifying...a great effort

1996..we did really well, in my opinion our best effort at a finals tournament. Brown could have been more adventurous tried to get the second against Switzerland.

1998...it was a case of after the Lord Mayor's show after the opening match against Brazil. Disappointing tournament.

2021...Missed opportunity really especially against Czech Republic, but you'd hope to qualify with a possible three from four qualifying and two of the three matches on home soil.

But really in a group of three matches and four teams, you'd expect to be reasonably close to reaching the next stage if you've managed to navigate through the European qualifying.

McCoist should have had a hat trick in the first half in the first half v Switzerland 

For a double golden boot winner to miss those chances was absolutely criminal 

We have a huge propensity to f**k up, can only hope we buck the habit of a lifetime Sunday 

[rainbowrising]

The whole third place thing leaves me cold. A compete invention that could just as easily be dumped for the next tournament. 

Can we go above the Swiss on GD if Germany wacked them and we win? Seems to be a number of ways they count GD if teams are tied on points? 

[immcinto]

4 minutes ago, rainbowrising said:

The whole third place thing leaves me cold. A compete invention that could just as easily be dumped for the next tournament. 

Can we go above the Swiss on GD if Germany wacked them and we win? Seems to be a number of ways they count GD if teams are tied on points? 

Do we even want to? 2nd prob gets Italy. Better off with 3rd. Likely F1

[rainbowrising]

1 minute ago, immcinto said:

Do we even want to? 2nd prob gets Italy. Better off with 3rd. Likely F1

Italy are a shadow of former squads. Should have been hammered the other night. 

[Bogbrush1903]

54 minutes ago, Binos said:

McCoist should have had a hat trick in the first half in the first half v Switzerland 

For a double golden boot winner to miss those chances was absolutely criminal 

 

We have a huge propensity to f**k up, can only hope we buck the habit of a lifetime Sunday 

I actually need to watch that Swiss match from 1996 again...I have it from lockdown when it was on BBC replay.

 

Actually 1986 was a major balls up too, having basically played the whole of the final game against ten men and still not able score.

Edited June 21 by Bogbrush1903

[Monkey Tennis]

1 hour ago, rainbowrising said:

The whole third place thing leaves me cold. A compete invention that could just as easily be dumped for the next tournament. 

I'm not a fan of it either.

It involves a Hell of a lot of football matches, in order to eliminate only a third of the field.

 

It's not just a faddish invention they might easily scrap though.  It's all about the numbers.  It's a means of getting from 24 finalists to a knock-out format.  So long as there are 24 teams who qualify, it'll probably need to remain in place.  That's why it existed for the few World Cups that took place between the eras of 16 and 32 qualifiers.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 hours ago, Bogbrush1903 said:

1978 and the Dutch had already qualified and weren't playing at full throttle when we beat them, after what must rate as one of the worst Scottish performances ever against Iran. However, it might've been all so different if Don Masson had scored the penalty against Peru, though Willie Johnston's failed drug test would've seen us lose the points anyway.

The Dutch hadn't already qualified.  If we'd beaten them by 3, which famously looked possible for a minute, they would have been eliminated.

I don't think we necessarily would have subsequently lost the points from the Peru game if we'd won any.  Argentina weren't stripped of theirs in 1994 after Maradona's failed drug test.

[Bogbrush1903]

11 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

The Dutch hadn't already qualified.  If we'd beaten them by 3, which famously looked possible for a minute, they would have been eliminated.

I don't think we necessarily would have subsequently lost the points from the Peru game if we'd won any.  Argentina weren't stripped of theirs in 1994 after Maradona's failed drug test.

Fair enough, I didn't realise the Netherlands had only drawn with Peru, I thought it was the latter we could catch...

 

However, it took the Netherlands three minutes to find a goal when they felt in anyway threatened.

 

[BFTD]

Uruguay in 1986 might be a candidate for a more depressing Scotland game than this last German one. Everyone delighted when a dreadfully cynical Uruguayan side put themselves down to ten men almost immediately, only for it to become increasingly obvious that we could've played all day and wouldn't have got the single goal we needed.

Still pissed about Maradona going home early from USA 94 - Argentina were outrageously good in the first couple of games and fell apart without him. Frankly, if Diego Armando Maradona wants to turn up to a World Cup chinged off his tits, you let him.

^{(yes, I know it wasn't coke in his system, but that just makes it more depressing)}

[rollstar]

26 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

So long as there are 24 teams who qualify, it'll probably need to remain in place.  That's why it existed for the few World Cups that took place between the eras of 16 and 32 qualifiers.

Just the latter 2, in 1986 and 1990. In 1982 they had a possibly even dafter format of three-team groups in the 2nd round in order to take it to 4 teams. Obviously if you continue with that method every tournament in you will end up with a lot of tied groups, after for example three 0-0 draws or three 1-1 draws.

Edited June 21 by rollstar

[Nowhereman]

4 minutes ago, rollstar said:

Just the latter 2, in 1986 and 1990. In 1982 they had a possibly even dafter format of three-team groups in the 2nd round in order to take it to 4 teams. Obviously if you continue with that method every tournament in you will end up with a lot of tied groups, after for example three 0-0 draws or three 1-1 draws.

78 was similar with four groups of four moving on to two groups of four

[rollstar]

Just now, Nowhereman said:

78 was similar with four groups of four moving on to two groups of four

1974 as well, but at least both those times the 2nd round was 4 team groups which are big enough to get a meaningful result to decide the semi-finalists. I don't think anyone has repeated 3 team groups since 1982.

Mind-bogglingly, 1950 was also decided by a 4 team group for the winner. I can understand the logic but I can also understand why they decided not to repeat it.

[Bully Wee Villa]

1950 was just a pure cash grab, I think. After the war none of the major European nations could afford to host it as they were ruined. Brazil agreed to step in but only on condition that they could add a final group stage to increase gate receipts.

Edited June 21 by Bully Wee Villa