Jordi1977 Posted Monday at 08:36 Share Posted Monday at 08:36 11 minutes ago, TheScarf said: Only he, Hendry and Gilmour got pass marks for me last night. I'd agree with that. Actually thought Hendry had one of his best games for us. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted Monday at 08:36 Share Posted Monday at 08:36 19 minutes ago, lanky_ffc said: Morgan should have cleaned out the boy on the halfway line. Take the yellow, regroup and maybe get one last go at launching it into their box. This. I didnt realise at the time it was Morgan but I was screaming for him to take the boy down and take yellow (possibly even red depending how it was seen) but it would have saved the draw. I think a more experienced player does it. Morgan's new in the group and maybe not confident enough in his position to resort to such cynicism. He tried to play it fair and we lost the goal. Its not his 'fault' but he was the last line of defence and could have stopped it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Parr Posted Monday at 08:37 Share Posted Monday at 08:37 (edited) 16 minutes ago, TheScarf said: Only he, Hendry and Gilmour got pass marks for me last night. I'd agree with that. One of our greatest deficiencies (laid bare in these Championships) is our defenders' inability to do anything other than defend. Last night in particular was crying out for the centre backs to carry the ball a little and release forward. At least Hendry tried to do just that on one or two occasions. Overall there's no question this team underperformed. The lack of creativity was astonishing, the lack of goal-scoring opportunities gruesome. The first half against Hungary will live long in my memory, despite the football being entirely forgettable. An opportunity to go and hurt a side that was happy to sit in and we froze yet again, happy to pass the ball sideways and sideways and sideways. We either froze in disbelief that we actually had reasonable possession of the football or we simply lacked the minerals to try and make something happen. Either way, that first half was a colossal failure that I should hope Stevie Clarke is reflecting on today. Edited Monday at 08:40 by George Parr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted Monday at 08:37 Share Posted Monday at 08:37 3 minutes ago, forameus said: I think, like you say, a 0-0 would not have gone down well. I expect 2 points will end up not being enough, so is it better to not go for it, get a draw, and be in for a few more days? I'd rather have seen them take a proper go at it and lose than not and draw. Of course, we had a half-arsed go and still lost, but still. This is it, if someone said at the draw "beat hungary to go through" everyone and their granny would have taken that, instead clarke served up a 541 against a team who conceded 5 goals in 2 games, fucking talk about shitting the bed 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted Monday at 08:39 Share Posted Monday at 08:39 1 minute ago, George Parr said: I'd agree with that. One of our greatest deficiencies (laid bare in this Championships) is our defenders' inability to do anything other than defend. Last night in particular was crying out for the centre backs to carry the ball a little and release forward. At least Hendry tried to do just that on one or two occasions. Overall there's no question this team underperformed. The lack of creativity was astonishing, the lack of goal-scoring opportunities gruesome. The first half against Hungary will live long in my memory, despite the football being entirely forgettable. An opportunity to go and hurt a side that was happy to sit in and we froze yet again, happy to pass the ball sideways and sideways and sideways. We either froze in disbelief that we actually had reasonable possession of the football or we simply lacked the minerals to try and make something happen. Either way, that first half was a colossal failure that I should hope Stevie Clarke is reflecting on today. Scotlands biggest deficiency like you say is centre halves coming out with the ball, so clarke plays 3 of them 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daydream Posted Monday at 08:39 Share Posted Monday at 08:39 I’m not really buying this “heart breaking, sucker punch” narrative in the media today. We were rubbish in the tournament which is entirely expected IMO. We got exactly what we deserved. We actually did better against the Swiss and Hungary than I expected tbh! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted Monday at 08:40 Share Posted Monday at 08:40 Just now, Jordi1977 said: I'd agree with that. Actually thought Hendry had one of his best games for us. He was excellent imo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted Monday at 08:40 Share Posted Monday at 08:40 11 hours ago, Scary Bear said: We just don’t do tournaments. No doubt there’ll be some talk about getting experience and learning from past events but that’s just platitudes. We never learn. 70 years of learning hasn't progressed us too far... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted Monday at 08:41 Share Posted Monday at 08:41 14 minutes ago, TheScarf said: Only he, Hendry and Gilmour got pass marks for me last night. A bit harsh. I thought Hanley played well, in fact better than Hendry who got away with a couple early on. Gunn was fine. I thought McGinn whilst still not his old self was better than he's been for a while. We lacked ball to make an incisive pass though. Dont know how it looked on tv but in person McGinn, and especially McTominay, often made darts into space in the final 3rd only for Robertson, Gilmour, McGregor, Ralston etc to turn down a not that difficult pass in favour of recycling the ball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted Monday at 08:41 Share Posted Monday at 08:41 The game finished about midnight here (Crete) and I'm just up (lazy git) so I've not had much chance to go over last night's match in much detail, so here's my knee-jerk reaction. I've only read the previous 2 pages here. Some neutrals started watching the game, but drifted away. There was nothing happening to make them want to stay. We were far too cautious. When I watch Scotland I'm not expecting them to play like fkkn Brazil, but to watch the ball constantly going sideways between 4 at the back was mind-numbing. Frankly we were boring. UEFA could have rented out the wings for a herd of cows to graze on and our "attacking play" wouldn't have inconvenienced them in the least. Some Scottish millionaire needs to set up a "wingers" factory. Our lack of guile going forward was grim. As for the manager's future? I don't know. Maybe last night is too recent to give a verdict. It looked to me that the team were definitely sticking to a plan, even although after about 20 minutes it was clear that the plan wasn't working. If there was no plan B, that's down to the manager. He seems to have a genuine rapport with the squad, but that clearly isn't producing the performances required at this level. Maybe keep him. If he fails to get us to the World Cup, he can always be sentenced to life imprisonment on Rockall. If there's another genuine contender who actually sees something in the available players then aye, give them a go. I'm in my 60's. I'd like to see us get to the second phase even once before I'm offski! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For Your Pies Only Posted Monday at 08:42 Share Posted Monday at 08:42 Northern Ireland, Wales (twice!), Iceland, Hungary and Slovakia have all qualified from the group stage across the last 2 Euros and Finland were unlucky to lose out on goal difference in 2020. All of those teams had players, at best, who were on a level with this Scotland squad or much worse. None of them have superior youth development setups to our own, with the possible exception of Iceland. None of them have strong domestic leagues. None of them had squads full of technically gifted players or were fundamentally better on the ball than the current Scotland squad. But they all had a go. They played tough, quick, positive football and had coaching teams that understood you could be well organised and tight and the back without nullifying your attacking options completely. All of them understood that winning at least one game, and playing a system to achieve that, rather than a system that would avoid defeat, was essential to qualifying. They tried to get the best out of the limited players they had, and it worked. The polar opposite to Clarke and the current coaching team basically, who have turned this squad into less than the sum of their parts over two Euros tournaments now. I'm all for improving youth development and grass roots infrastructure, but we could still be doing far better with the players we have. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Absolute Imposter Posted Monday at 08:43 Share Posted Monday at 08:43 Looking ahead, what players are coming through the ranks that can step up to the national squad. I believe we had one of the oldest squad's at the tournament. Other than Gilmour, Hendry, McGinn that played, what other guys in this squad are an improvement on what was on show but are young enough to shine in World Cup qualification. There doesn't seem much evidence of new talent breaking through at our Premiership clubs. How many top flight clubs are stacked with Scottish talent? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted Monday at 08:44 Share Posted Monday at 08:44 At least we won the best fans trophy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted Monday at 08:45 Share Posted Monday at 08:45 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said: Have to admit at the game I personally thought we went gung ho unnecessarily and possibly too early. There was levels in between the way we started and finished the game that we just bypassed with 5 minutes to go. At half time/60 mins we could have introduced attacking players and/or a change of shape without completely abandoning our entire structure. Christie and shankland came on when we were forced to sub off gilmour and Robertson because they were burst and we have the full back positions occupied by guys who don’t want to be there. It looked like we were playing a 4-1-5 at the end. Hungary probably couldn’t believe their luck that our ‘going for it’ just involved additional men in forward positions and lumping it forward. There was so much space in the midfield when they started committing bodies forward and yet we took absolutely no advantage of it. Edited Monday at 08:45 by Dons_1988 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted Monday at 08:49 Share Posted Monday at 08:49 11 hours ago, Kadouken_ said: He won’t a trophy where he had a bigger budget than the rest of the tournament combined and still managed to get completely in the final and nick it in the last minute. His only trophy in about in about 30 years of management. A Celtic fan going on about budgets! -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Absolute Imposter Posted Monday at 08:49 Share Posted Monday at 08:49 2 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said: A bit harsh. I thought Hanley played well, in fact better than Hendry who got away with a couple early on. Gunn was fine. I thought McGinn whilst still not his old self was better than he's been for a while. We lacked ball to make an incisive pass though. Dont know how it looked on tv but in person McGinn, and especially McTominay, often made darts into space in the final 3rd only for Robertson, Gilmour, McGregor, Ralston etc to turn down a not that difficult pass in favour of recycling the ball. McFadden commented a few times on TV that McGinn and McTominay were getting frustrated. Gilmour and McGregor basically played the same position. Gilmour should have been played further forward in a slightly more positive role, McGregor is a recycler of the ball by that I mean getting the ball then transferring it on to more productive positive players. There appeared an almost reluctance to play forward. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Absolute Imposter Posted Monday at 08:51 Share Posted Monday at 08:51 1 minute ago, Jacksgranda said: A Celtic fan going on about budgets! Can we no keep the Celt/Gers out of this, they ruin enough in Scottish Football. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted Monday at 08:51 Share Posted Monday at 08:51 Just now, An Absolute Imposter said: McFadden commented a few times on TV that McGinn and McTominay were getting frustrated. Gilmour and McGregor basically played the same position. Gilmour should have been played further forward in a slightly more positive role, McGregor is a recycler of the ball by that I mean getting the ball then transferring it on to more productive positive players. There appeared an almost reluctance to play forward. Gilmour had one or two nice forward passes but basically just one touch passed the ball to centre backs all night, he was probably the worst for it in the team. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Absolute Imposter Posted Monday at 08:52 Share Posted Monday at 08:52 Just now, An Absolute Imposter said: Can we no keep the Celt/Gers out of this, they ruin enough in Scottish Football. Oh and I know you are half joking auld yin. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonHMFC Posted Monday at 08:53 Share Posted Monday at 08:53 Sent homewards to think again... I think through the many posts in the past 12 hours or so most points have been covered, but I will still stick my own thoughts in (mainly as nobody in this godforsaken office gives a f**k). Firstly the managerial dilemma, who in their right mind is going to go for that job if SC does resign? People mentioning the likes of Moyes, is laughable. It is a poisoned chalice. Taking that job has more chance of being a retirement gig than anything else. The squad? It isn't good enough, players like McGregor just can't cut it at that level. Relying on the likes of Shankland from the bench shows where we are, just don't have the quality. Robertson/McGinn often seem to struggle to replicate club form. As always a few players who have done okay, but nothing more. Where do we go from here? Well f**k all has changed in the past few decades, and I very much doubt we are going to see much change in the coming years. Whilst this squad is probably our best in recent years, it is still filled with dross, and unfortunately our better players aren't at a level where they can change games on their own. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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