Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 v 🇭🇺 Hungary

[DA Baracus]

Not much to add other than what a hugely cowardly display that was.

A timid, weak, pathetic performance from players absolutely shitting it and who had zero belief.

[54_and_counting]

38 minutes ago, Elixir said:

Last night was down to the ineptitude of the manager, but that doesn't negate the fact that we would likely be better served by more of our players playing on the continent and developing their game in more technical leagues - of course ideally for decent teams in Italy, Spain, Germany, etc. The majority of European football, including the European Championships, exists outside of the EPL bubble. The more players you have that are adapted to such styles of football will therefore surely only benefit the national team, short of us suddenly having an entire starting eleven and squad that play for the best clubs in England.

 

Ferguson would have been warming the bench.

Doesn't matter how good your players are if your manager doesn't pick them and the ones he does pick aren't set up properly

Scotland have decent enough footballers that can put on a performance, but its like they are encouraged not to because clarke is shit scared of conceding instead of thinking "how many can we score" 

[Glen Scotia]

Im fed up hearing Clarke saying it was always a 1-0 game. To me he is saying we set out to sneak a win. 

Sums up the negativity of our display 

[saint in exile]

I know what kind of a defeatist statement is that.We should have had a pen and they hit the post.What does that make the score?

A narcissists accusations are often confessions ie the Negative Norman comments

[DeeTillEhDeh]

8 hours ago, KnightswoodBear said:

This is it.  McGregor is a flat track bully at Celtic, but gets shown up against better opposition.  Robertson is the same to a certain extent at Liverpool.

It's slightly different with Robertson.

Liverpool's players and style of play suit him - and so I think it makes him look better than he actually is.

[Crùbag]

2 hours ago, No_Problemo said:

Shankland has never been a lazy poacher, certainly not since he arrived at Ayr. 

That was my impression of him at Utd. Did nothing in one game but score 2 in the last 2 or 3 minutes. He didn't do much in Belgium either.

His record at Hearts though speaks volumes.

We can persist with Adams but don't expect to get many goals from him. 1 in 14, I believe, and that was against Gibraltar.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

7 hours ago, An Absolute Imposter said:

Looking ahead, what players are coming through the ranks that can step up to the national squad.

I believe we had one of the oldest squad's at the tournament.

Other than Gilmour, Hendry, McGinn that played, what other guys in this squad are an improvement on what was on show but are young enough to shine in World Cup qualification.

There doesn't seem much evidence of new talent breaking through at our Premiership clubs.

How many top flight clubs are stacked with Scottish talent?

I genuinely would be looking at anyone qualified - I know some moan about the Scottish granny route but tbqh I couldn't give a fekk.

[Elixir]

54 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

Doesn't matter how good your players are if your manager doesn't pick them and the ones he does pick aren't set up properly

Scotland have decent enough footballers that can put on a performance, but its like they are encouraged not to because clarke is shit scared of conceding instead of thinking "how many can we score"

Yup, no arguments from me there. We still need the right managerial setup.

[Stevie Kirk]

So Hungary are no mugs, they are 11 places higher than us in the rankings and as recently as 2 years ago stuffed England 4 nil in their own backyard, a result we can only dream of.

Clarke knew if we simply went gung ho and battle charged them from kick off that we could end up being a couple of goals down and effectively out by half time. What he tried to do was play a cagey possession based game which meant we kept the back door shut - but then relied on set pieces to allow us a scoring chance.  However our set piece delivery was absolutely rank, never beat the first man and so it appeared we never laid a glove on them.

Our game changers like Dykes, Doak ( certainly potentially) Fraser etc were either injured or not selected so our only forward changes were to bring on Shankland or one of the untried Conway/ Morgan. I think if Shankland was an energetic frontman who runs the channels then he comes on at 60 minutes. If the other two had more games under their belts maybe they would have come on sooner as well. Clarke didn’t trust them with thirty minutes. 
 

I think the criticism that can be levelled at Clarke/ management are as follows:

1. When Doak was ruled out he should have called up Fraser ( don’t care about previous beefs- how often do we make a tournament finals) 

2. The set piece delivery in this game and the others was frankly diabolical.  Last night McTominay should have been told to get in the box and someone else hit the free kicks . Not Robertson either as his were all pants as well.

3. I agree with the idea of going all out with 15 minutes to go. However the way we went about it appeared to be lacking in any strategy and we should have prepared the players to take yellow cards in the event they caught us on the break. Taking off both full backs and not replacing them was IMO asking for trouble. McGregor ( who was average on the night and not the complete shitshow a lot on here have been declaring) should have been off for McLean and Greg Taylor should have been on when Robbo started to limp.

4. Bringing up the referee’s nationality in the post match interview is poor. However I think a lot of the bigger teams would have been given a penalty for the challenge on Armstrong as the defender cleary takes out his left leg. You can bet your house that Kane would have got it . As to why VAR never asked the ref to have a look on the monitor , I really don’t have an answer. 

Hopefully by the time the NL matches come round we have most of our injured players back. However that was definitely a missed opportunity last night to break our glass ceiling. That said Portugal would probably taken 6 off us in the next round so there’s that .

 

[Father Ted]

4 hours ago, FalkirkBairn2021 said:

For us auld yins,  before the Internet was a thing, it was a running joke in the newspapers about an ongoing root and branch review, I think from Ernie Walker's time, which went on longer than Jarndyce v Jarndyce and never actually delivered anything 

Not forgetting Henry McLeish. At 49 3/4 I think I'm in the auld bracket. 

I also mind the glory days before the internet.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

3 hours ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

I just don’t understand why Clarke stuck McLean to left back. He could have brought on Taylor if he was going to stick with the 4 at the back or just move Hendry back in and go with a 3 and everyone else attacking. 
 

showed me he had completely lost the plot and no idea on a plan B. Also the fact Conway never got on is bordering on criminal. Not saying he would have scored but having more than 1 striker on the pitch at the end might of helped!!

He hasn't had a plan B since Dykes was injured.

[DA Baracus]

Regarding the penalty shout, presumably the ref would have instantly blown for full time if we'd scored it?

 

[54_and_counting]

7 minutes ago, Stevie Kirk said:

So Hungary are no mugs, they are 11 places higher than us in the rankings and as recently as 2 years ago stuffed England 4 nil in their own backyard, a result we can only dream of.

Clarke knew if we simply went gung ho and battle charged them from kick off that we could end up being a couple of goals down and effectively out by half time. What he tried to do was play a cagey possession based game which meant we kept the back door shut - but then relied on set pieces to allow us a scoring chance.  However our set piece delivery was absolutely rank, never beat the first man and so it appeared we never laid a glove on them.

Our game changers like Dykes, Doak ( certainly potentially) Fraser etc were either injured or not selected so our only forward changes were to bring on Shankland or one of the untried Conway/ Morgan. I think if Shankland was an energetic frontman who runs the channels then he comes on at 60 minutes. If the other two had more games under their belts maybe they would have come on sooner as well. Clarke didn’t trust them with thirty minutes. 
 

I think the criticism that can be levelled at Clarke/ management are as follows:

1. When Doak was ruled out he should have called up Fraser ( don’t care about previous beefs- how often do we make a tournament finals) 

2. The set piece delivery in this game and the others was frankly diabolical.  Last night McTominay should have been told to get in the box and someone else hit the free kicks . Not Robertson either as his were all pants as well.

3. I agree with the idea of going all out with 15 minutes to go. However the way we went about it appeared to be lacking in any strategy and we should have prepared the players to take yellow cards in the event they caught us on the break. Taking off both full backs and not replacing them was IMO asking for trouble. McGregor ( who was average on the night and not the complete shitshow a lot on here have been declaring) should have been off for McLean and Greg Taylor should have been on when Robbo started to limp.

4. Bringing up the referee’s nationality in the post match interview is poor. However I think a lot of the bigger teams would have been given a penalty for the challenge on Armstrong as the defender cleary takes out his left leg. You can bet your house that Kane would have got it . As to why VAR never asked the ref to have a look on the monitor , I really don’t have an answer. 

Hopefully by the time the NL matches come round we have most of our injured players back. However that was definitely a missed opportunity last night to break our glass ceiling. That said Portugal would probably taken 6 off us in the next round so there’s that .

 

Basing an opinion on a team on their world ranking isnt the best idea belgium and england are above spain the now 

As for the cagey and reliant on set pieces to score from, does that not sound like a fucking riddy when you try and score from a set piece instead of open play 

Scotland had the chance to go through the group stages, all they had to do was beat a Hungarian team arguably no better than Scotland, and who had conceded 5 goals in 2 games

The difference last night is that the Hungarian manager had a plan to stifle Clarke one and only open play option and he did it to perfection

Clarke meanwhile looked every bit of the average club manager he was whos sole job was to make killie tough to break down and hope for the best, when his one plan didnt work he sat there absolutely clueless as how to change it

[Stevie Kirk]

11 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

Basing an opinion on a team on their world ranking isnt the best idea belgium and england are above spain the now 

As for the cagey and reliant on set pieces to score from, does that not sound like a fucking riddy when you try and score from a set piece instead of open play 

Scotland had the chance to go through the group stages, all they had to do was beat a Hungarian team arguably no better than Scotland, and who had conceded 5 goals in 2 games

The difference last night is that the Hungarian manager had a plan to stifle Clarke one and only open play option and he did it to perfection

Clarke meanwhile looked every bit of the average club manager he was whos sole job was to make killie tough to break down and hope for the best, when his one plan didnt work he sat there absolutely clueless as how to change it

I suppose what I’m trying to say is that when the best you can put out is an infrequently goal scoring facilitator like Che Adams up top then it’s quite easy for the opposition to nullify you. You make it sound like the Hungarian manager did a number on Clarke. I could have done it and I have no coaching badges . 

There isn’t some magic system that is going to suddenly make 6/10 players turn in 9/10 performances. You need the squad options and ours were paper thin before all the players started dropping like flies last month. If we had scored a header from one of our many free kicks I doubt anyone would be complaining 

I get that you have a beef about Clarke, I have a couple of Rangers leaning pals who absolutely hate him. However he must have done something right to get us to the levels of being able to beat Spain. I just think that he didn’t have the players available to him yesterday to play a more expansive game.

 

[54_and_counting]

7 minutes ago, Stevie Kirk said:

I suppose what I’m trying to say is that when the best you can put out is an infrequently goal scoring facilitator like Che Adams up top then it’s quite easy for the opposition to nullify you. You make it sound like the Hungarian manager did a number on Clarke. I could have done it and I have no coaching badges . 

There isn’t some magic system that is going to suddenly make 6/10 players turn in 9/10 performances. You need the squad options and ours were paper thin before all the players started dropping like flies last month. If we had scored a header from one of our many free kicks I doubt anyone would be complaining 

I get that you have a beef about Clarke, I have a couple of Rangers leaning pals who absolutely hate him. However he must have done something right to get us to the levels of being able to beat Spain. I just think that he didn’t have the players available to him yesterday to play a more expansive game.

 

So you could have done a number on clarke and you have no coaching badges

Does that not indicate to you how poor a manager he is then? 

As for beef with clarke, said it before, i have no love for international football, success or failure isnt the be all and end all for me, i enjoy a good debate/discussion about football and probably have spent more time discussing Scotland because for some reason i feel you get a more reasoned debate than during club football season

As for the players, he played a 541 with pretty much 4 midfielders who'll spend their time goalside, apart from robertson and mctominay the odd time in games, theres barely an outball there

Ralston isnt a good footballer, even if he was good at right back he isn't a wing back, so basing your system on your two wide players getting you up the park is mental when one can't do it 

He could have sacrificed a centre half and mcgregor (i still stand by he isnt good enough for this level, in europe for celtic he's a passenger more often than not) and brought on another two plauers further up to keep Hungary penned in and maybe get something

However he instead invited Hungary to come out because it was clear to see ideas had ran out pretty damn quickly 

A 4231 for the second half would have kept Hungary guessing at the back

[Todd_is_God]

51 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Regarding the penalty shout, presumably the ref would have instantly blown for full time if we'd scored it?

The player who would have been guilty of the foul was already on a yellow card was he not? Very real prospect of being ordered off too if so.

[Dons_1988]

14 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

The player who would have been guilty of the foul was already on a yellow card was he not? Very real prospect of being ordered off too if so.

Yeah he was. To be honest I’m still not completely sold that it was a pen. Went apoplectic watching it live then sat doon a bit after the replays. 

[Stevie Kirk]

7 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

So you could have done a number on clarke and you have no coaching badges

Does that not indicate to you how poor a manager he is then? 

As for beef with clarke, said it before, i have no love for international football, success or failure isnt the be all and end all for me, i enjoy a good debate/discussion about football and probably have spent more time discussing Scotland because for some reason i feel you get a more reasoned debate than during club football season

As for the players, he played a 541 with pretty much 4 midfielders who'll spend their time goalside, apart from robertson and mctominay the odd time in games, theres barely an outball there

Ralston isnt a good footballer, even if he was good at right back he isn't a wing back, so basing your system on your two wide players getting you up the park is mental when one can't do it 

He could have sacrificed a centre half and mcgregor (i still stand by he isnt good enough for this level, in europe for celtic he's a passenger more often than not) and brought on another two plauers further up to keep Hungary penned in and maybe get something

However he instead invited Hungary to come out because it was clear to see ideas had ran out pretty damn quickly 

A 4231 for the second half would have kept Hungary guessing at the back

Ok let’s say Rangers draw Eintracht Frankfurt in the europa league . Frankfurt are maybe slightly better than Rangers on paper. Due to injuries Rangers have Dessers as their only fit striker and despite running about a fair bit he gets no change out of the Frankfurt back line and gets subbed off . Is the reason for this that - 

A. Dino Toppmoller has mugged off Clement and schooled him in a tactical masterclass 

B. At this level Dessers is struggling to make an impact because he’s not good enough.

[54_and_counting]

2 minutes ago, Stevie Kirk said:

Ok let’s say Rangers draw Eintracht Frankfurt in the europa league . Frankfurt are maybe slightly better than Rangers on paper. Due to injuries Rangers have Dessers as their only fit striker and despite running about a fair bit he gets no change out of the Frankfurt back line and gets subbed off . Is the reason for this that - 

A. Dino Toppmoller has mugged off Clement and schooled him in a tactical masterclass 

B. At this level Dessers is struggling to make an impact because he’s not good enough.

If dessers got no change out of the frankfurt backline because the rest of the team was 40 yards behind him then clement gets the blame for allowing that to happen

The Hungarian defence is no better than the swiss defence but scotland put them under way way more pressure 

Scotlands best moments against the swiss came from a turnover and quick counter, Hungary never allowed that last night apart from the armstrong penalty incident, 

Imagine the difference if adams had a support runner up top with him, he makes a gap and someone tries to get in it

[Todd_is_God]

7 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Yeah he was. To be honest I’m still not completely sold that it was a pen. Went apoplectic watching it live then sat doon a bit after the replays. 

I've not seen it back tbh. And I don't really have any desire to either in all honesty.

I'm over it so no good will come of doing so.