Reason for horrible exit: lack of quality or overly-defensive tactics?

[Binos]

29 minutes ago, saint in exile said:

Two soft pens tonight,way softer than the one we didnt get.Not even a VAR check.

True but ours was offside 

[Stevie Kirk]

1 minute ago, Binos said:

True but ours was offside 

That’s interesting I hadn’t been aware of that. When was this confirmed? 

[Binos]

3 minutes ago, Stevie Kirk said:

That’s interesting I hadn’t been aware of that. When was this confirmed? 

By using my eyes

[1320Lichtie]

4 minutes ago, Binos said:

By using my eyes

Quote

 

How could you possibly tell? Balls actually already left McTominay foot here too. Also they never even showed any potential offside or side angle

Edited June 26 by 1320Lichtie

[saint in exile]

27 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

How could you possibly tell? Balls actually already left McTominay foot here too. Also they never even showed any potential offside or side angle

Yes it was definitely tight.Neither the offside or the penalty was called by any official and no reviews of either.The Hungary goal was tight for offside too but there wasn't a review as far as I know

[eez-eh]

2 hours ago, Scosha said:

Ryan Christie’s latest instagram post just highlights the Shitebag attitude Clarke has instilled in that squad. “Don’t be sad because it’s over, smile because it happened”. Birthday. Caird. Pish. f**k all to smile about after that tournament. 

There’s been this.

There’s been Gunn calling the Germany game a free hit.

Theres been Clarke publicly banging on about “4 points”.

Am I missing any other loser mentality?

[2426255]

2 hours ago, eez-eh said:

There’s been this.

There’s been Gunn calling the Germany game a free hit.

Theres been Clarke publicly banging on about “4 points”.

Am I missing any other loser mentality?

how about this?

Quote

We'll take it game by game, but obviously we want to make it out of that group. It won't be easy, but I think we've definitely got the squad for it and the continuity to try and push for that achievement. We're desperate to make that next step. We don't want to just settle for making the groups.

Ryan Porteous

[Binos]

10 hours ago, saint in exile said:

Yes it was definitely tight.Neither the offside or the penalty was called by any official and no reviews of either.The Hungary goal was tight for offside too but there wasn't a review as far as I know

 

Hungary goal was definitely offside too

[VictorOnopko]

11 hours ago, 2426255 said:

how about this?

Just a pity your example of a winning mentality got sent off in the first half of the first game.

Your view, correct me if I am wrong, is that qualifying for tournaments is fine and that it's all about improving in future so Clarke should stay. Can I just ask you - do you think the players and/or manager embarrassed themselves in games 1 and 3? Is 24th out of 24 and our overall performance at these finals acceptable, or unacceptable, to you as a Scotland fan?

Edited June 27 by VictorOnopko

[theoriginalhedge]

19 hours ago, TeeMan said:

To be fair we were one refereeing decision away from qualifying.

It may have been dull to watch but we were 4th seeds in the group for a reason. Injuries killed us. I think we needed to have the bulk of the first team squad fit to be able to play more on the front foot - with Ralston at RWB and no Tierney the back three formation was toothless - our replacements are just not up to this level and I'm not sure we have good enough wide forward players to go to a 4-3-3 without neutralising Robertson who was our main threat. We played a back 4 away against Ukraine but that was very much a backs to the wall performance.

The wild move might have been to bring in Christie and move McTominay back to RCB providing forward surges but he's our main goal threat.  

I think this kind of sums up the current situation in Scotland. We have accepted our place in world (and domestic)  football and it seems that no one is prepared to look at other nations and take tips on how they have progressed. For being a so called footballing nation, why do we not have the back up when key players get injured ? Why do we not have good enough wide forward players ? Why do we always revert to backs to the wall performances against so called better teams ? Why should we accept  a manager that isn't really prepared to think outside his own comfort zone ?  

Last night Georgia with a population of less than 4million qualified for the last 16 at their first ever  Euro tournament . That doesn't happen by chance. They are obviously doing basic things better than Scotland.  The one glaringly obvious thing I noticed was that team were  coached  to press and attack without fear.  If you don't attack you don't win games , even against quality opposition like Portugal.  They knew they had to win to have any chance just like Scotland. The difference was attitude. Why should that be accepted ? 

The SFA should be taking a serious look at our constant failure in major tournaments. Nothing has changed since our last one, or the one before that etc.  Will it ever change ? 

[2426255]

1 hour ago, VictorOnopko said:

Your view, correct me if I am wrong, is that qualifying for tournaments is fine and that it's all about improving in future so Clarke should stay. Can I just ask you - do you think the players and/or manager embarrassed themselves in games 1 and 3? Is 24th out of 24 and our overall performance at these finals acceptable, or unacceptable, to you as a Scotland fan?

Qualifying consistently for tournaments is the job spec. The more tournaments we qualify for, the more we can grow our game. Then it's a numbers game: 2 good tournaments from 6, thats fine.

I was embarrassed watching the first game. The third game, no not embarrasing. I've seen games play out that way many times, not iust with Scotland. 

It makes no difference if we finish 19th, 21st or 24th. We're still out of the tournament. Is the tournament performance acceptable? well we have to accept it, that's what happened. 

Ultimately the SFA will talk that through with Clarke and it should be taken into account with a full range of factors including, but not limited to future performance. In short yes, it's acceptable. I've accepted it.

 

Edited June 27 by 2426255

[Bing.McCrosby]

26 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Qualifying consistently for tournaments is the job spec. The more tournaments we qualify for, the more we can grow our game. Then it's a numbers game: 2 good tournaments from 6, thats fine.

I was embarrassed watching the first game. The third game, no not embarrasing. I've seen games play out that way many times, not iust with Scotland. 

It makes no difference if we finish 19th, 21st or 24th. We're still out of the tournament. Is the tournament performance acceptable? well we have to accept it, that's what happened. 

Ultimately the SFA will talk that through with Clarke and it should be taken into account with a full range of factors including, but not limited to future performance. In short yes, it's acceptable. I've accepted it.

 

Some people have no pride tbh

[theoriginalhedge]

6 minutes ago, Bing.McCrosby said:

Some people have no pride tbh

Or ambition by the looks of things. 

[Butters Scotch]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

Qualifying consistently for tournaments is the job spec. The more tournaments we qualify for, the more we can grow our game. Then it's a numbers game: 2 good tournaments from 6, thats fine.

I was embarrassed watching the first game. The third game, no not embarrasing. I've seen games play out that way many times, not iust with Scotland. 

It makes no difference if we finish 19th, 21st or 24th. We're still out of the tournament. Is the tournament performance acceptable? well we have to accept it, that's what happened. 

Ultimately the SFA will talk that through with Clarke and it should be taken into account with a full range of factors including, but not limited to future performance. In short yes, it's acceptable. I've accepted it.

 

The more tournaments we qualify, the more we grow our game? This is just corporate w**k speak that ultimately means nothing. Qualifying for two tournaments from six isn't particulary great either in my book but then maybe my expectations are higher than yours.

It's one thing accepting we were pish in the euros (well the last two euros now) and then it's another accepting this is where we are, 'we are on the road to improvement', we did well just to qualify etc. Get this mentaltity in the sea.

We have worse teams than us winning matches and getting through to the knock outs for two euros in a row now. Countries that have a lot less resources than Scotland by the way. 

 

[2426255]

1 hour ago, Butters Scotch said:

The more tournaments we qualify, the more we grow our game? This is just corporate w**k speak that ultimately means nothing. Qualifying for two tournaments from six isn't particulary great either in my book but then maybe my expectations are higher than yours.

It's one thing accepting we were pish in the euros (well the last two euros now) and then it's another accepting this is where we are, 'we are on the road to improvement', we did well just to qualify etc. Get this mentaltity in the sea.

Okay, A few unhappy with my position.

For those of you that feel strongly let down with what Scotland gave at the Euros, What does not accepting it look like then? 

Not attending Nations League games? Protests? something else? 

[itzdrk]

2 hours ago, Butters Scotch said:

The more tournaments we qualify, the more we grow our game? This is just corporate w**k speak that ultimately means nothing. Qualifying for two tournaments from six isn't particulary great either in my book but then maybe my expectations are higher than yours.

It's one thing accepting we were pish in the euros (well the last two euros now) and then it's another accepting this is where we are, 'we are on the road to improvement', we did well just to qualify etc. Get this mentaltity in the sea.

We have worse teams than us winning matches and getting through to the knock outs for two euros in a row now. Countries that have a lot less resources than Scotland by the way. 

 

I mean this is part of the problem, having unrealistic expectations is going to get you mad when reality hits.  We just simply put are not a top 16 UEFA side so have no right to think getting through the group phase of the Euros would be anything other than luck.  

Data:

Spoiler

2024: Best Rank: 19 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 22 (UEFA) Average: 20.5

2023: Best Rank: 17 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 21 (UEFA) Average: 19

2022: Best Rank: 21 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 24 (UEFA) Average 22.5

2021: Best Rank: 18 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 22 (UEFA) Average: 20

2020: Best Rank: 23 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 26 (UEFA) Average: 24.5

2019: Best Rank: 22 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 27 (UEFA) Average: 24.5

2018: Best Rank: 19 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 23 (UEFA) Average: 21

2017: Best Rank: 15 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 31 (UEFA) Average: 23

2016: Best Rank: 22 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 25 (UEFA) Average: 23.5

2015: Best Rank: 16 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 22 (UEFA) Average: 19

2014: Best Rank: 23 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 27 (UEFA) Average: 25

That gives us an average (of averages) over the last decade of about 22.  

I wish we were better but we just aren't. 

We just don't produce the talent, especially in attacking areas.  

[Dev]

FWIW. I think that the lack of recent times experience in Euro or World Cup final competitions was the main issue for the whole set-up. At least they were there in Germany when many others weren't. Germany had to be Up for the first match of their tournament after all. Just unfortunate that Scotland was the opposition.

Next time they will be better off for this. The next Euros are in the UK too. Just be patient. At least they were there in Germany when many others weren't.

[tarapoa]

Now a few days have passed, it would be nice to hear from Clarke.

With so many fans having travelled, you would like to think an open honest interview on his take on what he feels went wrong would be welcome.

Right now, all we have are the soundbites of him having a pop at the ref.

 

 

[Scooby_Doo]

I said after the Germany game that Clarke said repeatedly (and correctly in my opinion) that fans want their team to be competitive first and foremost.

We weren't against Germany, we were against Switzerland, we weren't against Hungary.

You could argue that we haven't been since we sealed qualification. One win in twelve isn't being competitive.

He won't be sacked, but if he doesn't go he'll need to make sure his team are competitive in the Nations League or he might end up hounded out when the ticket sales drop.

[Bing.McCrosby]

1 hour ago, itzdrk said:

I mean this is part of the problem, having unrealistic expectations is going to get you mad when reality hits.  We just simply put are not a top 16 UEFA side so have no right to think getting through the group phase of the Euros would be anything other than luck.  

Data:

  Hide contents

2024: Best Rank: 19 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 22 (UEFA) Average: 20.5

2023: Best Rank: 17 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 21 (UEFA) Average: 19

2022: Best Rank: 21 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 24 (UEFA) Average 22.5

2021: Best Rank: 18 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 22 (UEFA) Average: 20

2020: Best Rank: 23 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 26 (UEFA) Average: 24.5

2019: Best Rank: 22 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 27 (UEFA) Average: 24.5

2018: Best Rank: 19 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 23 (UEFA) Average: 21

2017: Best Rank: 15 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 31 (UEFA) Average: 23

2016: Best Rank: 22 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 25 (UEFA) Average: 23.5

2015: Best Rank: 16 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 22 (UEFA) Average: 19

2014: Best Rank: 23 (UEFA), Worst Rank: 27 (UEFA) Average: 25

That gives us an average (of averages) over the last decade of about 22.  

I wish we were better but we just aren't. 

We just don't produce the talent, especially in attacking areas.  

So the teams who went thru are all top 16 teams?