Fullerene Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 19 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said: 6 hours ago, TAFKAM said: & now they've had someone who isn't all of those things for more than a year and they're polling worse than Corbyn, what's the explanation? Labour have no genuine leadership material and a significant proportion of the electorate view them as an utter joke. They're fucked for at least the next 2 parliaments and that's being generous. Labour devote an enormous amount of energy to a civil war that nobody else gives a shit about. Are you a Corbynista or not? Blairite, Brownite. What have you. Keir Starmer is suffering. Nobody has the slightest clue what a Starmerite is. Big question. If you are in the same party - do you actually have anything in common? Until they can answer that question they are irrelevant to everyone else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 (edited) Interesting! Labour's next leader? https://news.sky.com/story/john-bercow-former-commons-speaker-and-tory-mp-joins-labour-party-12336675 Quote Mr Bercow said he regards the Tories under Boris Johnson as "reactionary, populist, nationalistic and sometimes even xenophobic". He could have left out the word "sometimes" out of that. Edited June 19, 2021 by ICTJohnboy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 1 hour ago, ICTJohnboy said: Interesting! Labour's next leader? https://news.sky.com/story/john-bercow-former-commons-speaker-and-tory-mp-joins-labour-party-12336675 He could have left out the word "sometimes" out of that. Maybe not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomintroll Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 On 19/06/2021 at 09:17, TAFKAM said: Why do the Labour right fight with such ferocity against stuff that'd broadly speaking be pretty popular and good for people? I'm assuming some of them will be spooks but there's too many and they're too stupid, outwardly at least, for them all to be. Where does the energy come from? I would go the other way tbh, I left the Party because our Constituency meetings were mired in anti semitic topics & hatred of others rather than focusing on how we can make a positive difference to peoples lives. Since I have returned, the hard left elements seem more intent on attacking those close to the centre rather than the Tories. I sit in the middle of the party, the likes of Starmer are Tory lite to me with his comfortable, North London Middle Class lifestyle & he is utterly useless but the vitriol & sheer closed minded poison of those on the far left is extremely disturbing. They will accuse the Tories of being nasty & in the next breath advocate murdering them all without a shred of self awareness. We will be unelectable until we drop this self loathing hatred & actually get back to being a Party that wants to help people improve their lot in life rather than focusing on hating others due to their lucky circumstances. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 “The transcripts show that Mr Corbyn’s economic adviser Ali Moussavi said of Mr Corbyn to other senior staff in 2015: “We need to finish him.”A press officer responded: “Hanging and burning does seem like overkill.”Then head of broadcasting Jo Green said that any Labour MP “who nominates Corbyn ‘to widen the debate’ deserves to be taken out and shot.”Then policy communications officer Dan Hogan added that a staff member who “whooped” during Corbyn’s speech “should be shot.”And senior staff member Sarah Mulholland said she hoped that a young Labour member on the left of the party, who it was acknowledged has mental-health issues, “dies in a fire.”Then audit director Mike Creighton responded: “That’s a very bad wish, Sarah. But if he does I wouldn’t piss on him to put him out.”“The report includes claims that then governance & legal unit director Emilie Oldknow expected staff to “fabricate a case” against people “she doesn’t like/her friends don’t like” because of their political views.During the 2015 leadership election, her department and others internally described their work as “hunting out 1,000s of Trots” and a “Trot hunt,” which included excluding people for having “liked” the Green Party on Facebook.One staff member commented: “Everyone here considers anyone left of [Gordon] Brown to be a Trot.”During the 2017 general election, staff also shockingly described “working to rule” when Mr Corbyn was elected and “coming in to the office and doing nothing for a few months.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 That’s big John Bercow now a member of the Labour Party. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomintroll Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 41 minutes ago, NotThePars said: “The transcripts show that Mr Corbyn’s economic adviser Ali Moussavi said of Mr Corbyn to other senior staff in 2015: “We need to finish him.” A press officer responded: “Hanging and burning does seem like overkill.” Then head of broadcasting Jo Green said that any Labour MP “who nominates Corbyn ‘to widen the debate’ deserves to be taken out and shot.” Then policy communications officer Dan Hogan added that a staff member who “whooped” during Corbyn’s speech “should be shot.” And senior staff member Sarah Mulholland said she hoped that a young Labour member on the left of the party, who it was acknowledged has mental-health issues, “dies in a fire.” Then audit director Mike Creighton responded: “That’s a very bad wish, Sarah. But if he does I wouldn’t piss on him to put him out.” “The report includes claims that then governance & legal unit director Emilie Oldknow expected staff to “fabricate a case” against people “she doesn’t like/her friends don’t like” because of their political views. During the 2015 leadership election, her department and others internally described their work as “hunting out 1,000s of Trots” and a “Trot hunt,” which included excluding people for having “liked” the Green Party on Facebook. One staff member commented: “Everyone here considers anyone left of [Gordon] Brown to be a Trot.” During the 2017 general election, staff also shockingly described “working to rule” when Mr Corbyn was elected and “coming in to the office and doing nothing for a few months.” The salient point is that we need to stop ripping ourselves apart over matters like this, the Momentum side of things are equally disgraceful when it comes to infighting to the point that they wish death on Jewish Party members among other unacceptable behaviours. I left the Party in the first place because the Constituency members refused to expel an open anti-semite during Corbyns rise to power, this has since been addressed & that person has been removed from the Party, I am not happy with Starmer & his ineffectual "leadership", we need a socialist leader who has a clear direction to gain a mandate which addresses inequality but as has been signposted by many Countries, Marxism is not the answer, a left of centre Socialist Party is & that is what we need to work towards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 On 18/06/2021 at 15:27, Bob Mahelp said: White RoseKillie is a decent poster, but it's madness to suggest that appointing a leader who acted like a student socialist, refused to take a stance on the biggest issue since the 2nd world war, who spoke like a bumbling mumbleclown, and who looked like a permanent sack of shit was anything other then political suicide. Aye, nobody could accuse Boris Johnson of being a socialist, or refusing to take a xenophobic stance. 58 minutes ago, Perkin Flump said: The salient point is that we need to stop ripping ourselves apart over matters like this Good luck. That's been the mantra of socialists and communists since before either of us were born. Christ, even before Granny Danger was born. The Tories will have a go at each other over exactly how vicious and spiteful they want to be, but will always coalesce when the chips are down in case somebody takes something from them that they could lose and never notice. Those with the most to lose, fracture and split. Which is why there'll never be anything other than FPTP at Westminster, and why the poor are fucked for the foreseeable, likely until we take up arms again. By that point, they'll have drones to "pacify" us too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 Good luck. That's been the mantra of socialists and communists since before either of us were born. Christ, even before Granny Danger was born. The Tories will have a go at each other over exactly how vicious and spiteful they want to be, but will always coalesce when the chips are down in case somebody takes something from them that they could lose and never notice. Those with the most to lose, fracture and split. Which is why there'll never be anything other than FPTP at Westminster, and why the poor are fucked for the foreseeable, likely until we take up arms again. By that point, they'll have drones to "pacify" us too.If Labour wanted to learn from a winning strategy in 2019 then Corbyn should’ve expelled all of his internal opponents and silenced any dissent like Johnson did. It’s clearly what Starmer’s backers, if not Starmer himself, are doing right now which I’m sure will work out well for them come the next time they need a manifesto. Good luck to them, I had the brief deranged thought about joining when I moved down here but realised it’s a waste of time so I’ve joined Acorn and will try and do some actual good instead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 What did you think Corbyn would have done to Jewish people if he got into power?I don't think he's referring to Corbyn with the "open anti-Semite" remark. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Corbyn was going to force the deed poll people to legally change Eve Barlow’s name to Eve Fartlow and forcibly limit Stephen Pollard to 2000 calories a day 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Part of Corbyn's issue with Jewish people wasn't so much what he said. It's that he somehow accumulated a host of batshit crazy followers who are utter anti-semites and he didn't do enough, or say enough, to get rid of them. It's an odd problem as past Labour leaders were not as consumed by this issue as Corbyn was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 What’s the German word for an observation which is correct but not in the way you think 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 On 18/06/2021 at 23:16, Fullerene said: Labour devote an enormous amount of energy to a civil war that nobody else gives a shit about. Are you a Corbynista or not? Blairite, Brownite. What have you. Keir Starmer is suffering. Nobody has the slightest clue what a Starmerite is. Big question. If you are in the same party - do you actually have anything in common? Until they can answer that question they are irrelevant to everyone else. The issue appears incredibly complex but is very simple. There are people in the Labour Party who should not be in the Labour Party. The Labour Party is a left-of-centre political party. For years it has been infiltrated by people who are not left-of-centre. Some of them are careerists, others are simply agent provocateurs. There’s a few pro-Zionists who fall into the latter category. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomintroll Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 8 hours ago, TAFKAM said: What did you think Corbyn would have done to Jewish people if he got into power? Pretty much what scottsdad said, Corbyn himself is not a bad person but he was miles out of depth as Party Leader & a lot of very nasty types coalesced around him & he was not able to realise the depth of that issue or deal with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Sturgeon spot on with her criticism of Burnham. Trying to boost his own profile. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Sturgeon spot on with her criticism of Burnham. Trying to boost his own profile.Of course it is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Granny Danger said: The issue appears incredibly complex but is very simple. There are people in the Labour Party who should not be in the Labour Party. The Labour Party is a left-of-centre political party. For years it has been infiltrated by people who are not left-of-centre. Some of them are careerists, others are simply agent provocateurs. There’s a few pro-Zionists who fall into the latter category. If I was a careerist then infiltrating the Labour Party sounds about the least interesting career I could possibly imagine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Fullerene said: If I was a careerist then infiltrating the Labour Party sounds about the least interesting career I could possibly imagine. Maybe not interesting but potentially lucrative. Potentially very, very lucrative. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomintroll Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 minute ago, TAFKAM said: I think you and I both agree on this but probably have wildly different groups of people in mind when we think about who these might be. Probably in all honesty, nevertheless he was never going to stand a chance with the Media in this country even if that hadn't happened. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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