Clown Job Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, coprolite said: Do they think they can get lost votes back by trying to make it vote SNP, get Tories at Westminster? Or do you think it’s purely petty spite? Pure spite 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, coprolite said: Surely it can’t make a significant difference in England, where Scottish Indy barely shifts the dial? All of what you say is true of course. Maybe it’s about broader perceptions more than about independence itself. Do they think they can get lost votes back by trying to make it vote SNP, get Tories at Westminster? Or do you think it’s purely petty spite? It's nothing to do with Indi, or Scots politics at all really, it's just a scare tactic designed to appeal to inherent little englander hatred of 'jocks' and the "f**k 'em havin' any say in are country!" If it means a few more Tory votes and fewer Labour, then it's worked as intended. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Boo Khaki said: It's nothing to do with Indi, or Scots politics at all really, it's just a scare tactic designed to appeal to inherent little englander hatred of 'jocks' and the "f**k 'em havin' any say in are country!" If it means a few more Tory votes and fewer Labour, then it's worked as intended. It’s made me less likely to vote labour. I won’t vote for plaid with any enthusiasm, but they all count the same. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 3 hours ago, coprolite said: Surely it can’t make a significant difference in England, where Scottish Indy barely shifts the dial? All of what you say is true of course. Maybe it’s about broader perceptions more than about independence itself. Do they think they can get lost votes back by trying to make it vote SNP, get Tories at Westminster? Or do you think it’s purely petty spite? Every election they wheel out the "Coalition of chaos" line. It works. In middle England it resonates with some voters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, scottsdad said: Every election they wheel out the "Coalition of chaos" line. It works. In middle England it resonates with some voters. Genuinely never seen any of these. Looks like a Scottish thing. There might be a few of the diaspora who pick up on such things but the English genuinely don't give a shit as a whole. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 18 minutes ago, scottsdad said: Every election they wheel out the "Coalition of chaos" line. It works. In middle England it resonates with some voters. It’s the thought of the “jocks” ruling them that they can’t handle 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 4 hours ago, Clown Job said: They’ve also never gotten over the fact the SNP replaced them as the biggest party in Scotland It's 90% this tbh. Labour probably despise the SNP more than the fucking Tories do. We're on what 15 years of electoral thumpings delivered to Labour by the SNP and still they've learned nothing, and blame the voters for deserting then. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 6 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said: It's 90% this tbh. Labour probably despise the SNP more than the fucking Tories do. We're on what 15 years of electoral thumpings delivered to Labour by the SNP and still they've learned nothing, and blame the voters for deserting then. There are at least 2 generations of gravy drinking jobsworths denied their god given right to a career for life on the backs of the Scottish worker they have absolutely zero intention of doing anything at all for. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 14 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said: There are at least 2 generations of gravy drinking jobsworths denied their god given right to a career for life on the backs of the Scottish worker they have absolutely zero intention of doing anything at all for. I suspect the bitterness was only exacerbated by the SNP’s continued electoral success following Labour’s whoring it up with the Tories to ensure a “No” vote in 2014. We were all meant to go back into our box following that result, only periodically emerging to vote Labour in any and every election. The fact that Scots didn’t return to blind obedience to the Labour Party seems to have infuriated them - but they can’t directly attack the electorate for not returning to unthinking Labour-drone status, so the next best thing is monstering the SNP. Don’t fool yourself though - it’s us, the voters, Labour hate, as much if not more than the SNP. We’re the ones who didn’t behave like the useful idiots they’ve long taken us for. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, Antlion said: I suspect the bitterness was only exacerbated by the SNP’s continued electoral success following Labour’s whoring it up with the Tories to ensure a “No” vote in 2014. We were all meant to go back into our box following that result, only periodically emerging to vote Labour in any and every election. The fact that Scots didn’t return to blind obedience to the Labour Party seems to have infuriated them - but they can’t directly attack the electorate for not returning to unthinking Labour-drone status, so the next best thing is monstering the SNP. Don’t fool yourself though - it’s us, the voters, Labour hate, as much if not more than the SNP. We’re the ones who didn’t behave like the useful idiots they’ve long taken us for. Tom Harris is my favourite. Waiting for Labour to be returned so they can deliver the Scots working man from the tartantoryvileIRAESSENNPEE. Meanwhile, he grafts, behind the scenes in a job appointed by and for the Tory government and the odd cheque fromthe Daily Mail and Telegraph, but one day! He shall pounce, in the name of the proletariat, back into some cushy as f**k job doing nothing with a SLab rosette. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 Just now, williemillersmoustache said: Tom Harris is my favourite. Waiting for Labour to be returned so they can deliver the Scots working man from the tartantoryvileIRAESSENNPEE. Meanwhile, he grafts, behind the scenes in a job appointed by and for the Tory government and the odd cheque fromthe Daily Mail and Telegraph, but one day! He shall pounce, in the name of the proletariat, back into some cushy as f**k job doing nothing with a SLab rosette. One has to respect Tom Harris, really. Rather than ineffectually mewling about being called a Red Tory, he decided to embrace the label, outing himself as a hardcore UKNat separatist and fully accepting his place as a Tory poodle. … Or at least one would respect his transformation into a far-right Tory if it wasn’t for the fact that that makes him a dirty b*****d. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 Labour seems to have a long-standing and amazing inability to adopt the sensible position on any issue that might inflame xenophobes and bigots. "No, the UK isn't 'full', and EU immigration is a massive boon to the UK economy" instead became a limp 'we need to talk about immigration' and ensured that any discussion of the issue automatically started from a default position of it being an inherently negative thing. "Voting 'Leave' would be a catastrophic act of economic self-harm, and promises of £350million a week for the NHS are barefaced lies designed to fool the gullible" became 'EU... yay... I suppose' in front of 25 people in Aldershot before vanishing for the remainder of the campaign. They are being pilloried currently for being an utterly anodyne and ineffectual opposition, but the truth is they've been exactly that since 2010 and are as much a part of the ongoing omnishambles that is the UK as the Tories or LibDems. I don't blame them for being so wet over the past couple of years, because they've clearly learned from Theresa May's approach that sometimes you can actually win a GE by doing as little as possible, and hiding yourself away as much as possible, in order not to impede your opponent while they are busy hoisting themselves with their own petard. I still find their 'Brexit is done' position completely unacceptable though. They've completely thrown the 48% of people who voted remain, and the proportion of the 52% who voted leave but in no way sanctioned an ultra-hard EU exit under the bus, and for that, they can completely and utterly get to f**k.They are ultimately afraid to tackle thick working class racists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CambieBud Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 Ian Murray really is thick. I have pals who are still members of The Labour Party. To a man, they support Independence and rejoining the EU, but say that these issues are not to be discussed in public. Reason given is to get a majority in Westminster at all costs. They don’t see the irony of being elected to government, with no policies that are any different to the current incumbents. The usual wishywashy A Labour Government is always better than a Tory one just doesn’t cut it, if policies are nearly identical 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 The main reason I switched from being ambivalent to the prospect of Indi to wholeheartedly behind it, is it became abundantly clear during the McConnell/Blair years that all Labour gave a flying f**k about was winning Westminster elections, so sitting around waiting for them to govern Scotland in Scotland's best interests was something that was a fundamental contradiction. Not that I was ever a Labour voter in the first place, but the Labour party are themselves the reason I became a separatist tartan gonk, and no matter how often they bin one leader for the next there isn't a hope in hell of them winning my vote while they maintain a pro-union stance. It effectively guarantees that we'll always been an afterthought when opinions in England are at odds with the majority view in Scotland. I'd be as well just voting Tory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jedi Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 (edited) On 06/10/2022 at 12:43, CambieBud said: if policies are nearly identical Where have the Tories proposed nationalising railways, imposing a Windfall Tax on the energy companies, (rather than handing them billions of public money), setting up a National Energy Company, aiming for net zero by 2030 by a massive investment in renewables, and green energy, talked about PR voting, proposed a real Living Wage, (£15 an hour minimum wage), to support trade unions as the 'most effective vehicle to organise workers' (passed at recent Conference), proposed a National Care Service, (rather than selling off the NHS), aim for a pay deal for public sector workers which matches inflation (passed at Conference), to cite a few. Identical to the Tories though...must have missed it. Edited October 7, 2022 by Jedi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jedi Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 Interesting to see that some folk say they would prefer a minority Tory govt rather than a Labour one, just to keep the Independence issue going (when of course the minority Tory govt would block any Referendum) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 7 hours ago, Jedi said: Interesting to see that some folk say they would prefer a minority Tory govt rather than a Labour one, just to keep the Independence issue going (when of course the minority Tory govt would block any Referendum) Interesting that labour still peddle this utter rubbish along with the "Scotland has to vote labour " because without Scotland labour can't win 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 8 hours ago, Jedi said: Where have the Tories proposed nationalising railways, imposing a Windfall Tax on the energy companies, (rather than handing them billions of public money), setting up a National Energy Company, aiming for net zero by 2030 by a massive investment in renewables, and green energy, talked about PR voting, proposed a real Living Wage, (£15 an hour minimum wage), to support trade unions as the 'most effective vehicle to organise workers' (passed at recent Conference), proposed a National Care Service, (rather than selling off the NHS), aim for a pay deal for public sector workers which matches inflation (passed at Conference), to cite a few. Identical to the Tories though...must have missed it. Ah yes, Labour leaders never ignore policies passed at Conference when it comes to a manifesto. Starmer has literally sacked shadow cabinet members for standing on picket lines, you can't seriously claim a Labour government will support trade unions. You've evidently also missed that the fabled national energy company will not be involved in either supply or generation of energy rather than simply being an investment vehicle, while despite conference last year passing support for a £15 minimum wage Starmer has refused to adopt this. Interesting that your usual dive in and list all the ways Labour can't possibly be right wing whenever someone criticises a right wing policy didn't happen when immigration policy was discussed, where the Shadow Chancellor of "Labour will be tougher than the Tories on benefits" fame has been attacking the Tories for not deporting people quickly enough. Few people dispute that Labour would be less evil and less shit than the Tories. The point is that that's all they're proposing: they're still going to be evil and shit. Take a windfall tax on energy companies. It has a use as a one-off policy and is better than the Tory approach, but it's still the proverbial plaster on a shotgun wound. It's not actually going to fundamentally change the problems with the energy sector in the UK. That'd be the case even before you consider that their plan for the receipts of a windfall tax on energy companies is to simply hand the money back to energy companies as a subsidy. You could even call that handing them billions of pounds of public money! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Jedi said: Where have the Tories proposed nationalising railways, imposing a Windfall Tax on the energy companies, (rather than handing them billions of public money), setting up a National Energy Company, aiming for net zero by 2030 by a massive investment in renewables, and green energy, talked about PR voting, proposed a real Living Wage, (£15 an hour minimum wage), to support trade unions as the 'most effective vehicle to organise workers' (passed at recent Conference), proposed a National Care Service, (rather than selling off the NHS), aim for a pay deal for public sector workers which matches inflation (passed at Conference), to cite a few. Identical to the Tories though...must have missed it. Very little of which will see the light of day if Labour are elected. You missed out Labour's policy on immigration though. Rachel Reeves seems to think the Tories aren't punting asylum seekers out of the country quickly enough apparently. I have also seen nothing on the welfare state from labour which is remotely encouraging. Edited October 8, 2022 by Day of the Lords 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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