Guest Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, MazzyStar said: In the grand scheme of things, I dont really care that Keir Starmer doesn’t want proportional representation. What I do care about is that Keir Starmer won’t raise income tax on the wealthiest, nationalise public services and many other abandoned policies of his. That’s not to say I didn’t think he’d abandon these policies, because it’s definitely unsurprising that he has. The main point of my first post wasn’t really about being for or against PR, and my main issue with Led By Donkeys in this case is their insistence on using Starmers position on PR as their main criticism of him when ,in my opinion, there are much more effective criticisms of Starmer. Perhaps they have already criticised Starmer for some of the things I’ve mentioned and I’ve just not seen it. I’m also fairly certain that proportional representation isn’t something that is a priority of many people at the moment, which makes Led By Donkeys stunt even stranger. Ah, ok, that makes sense and I agree. I actually realised after reading your comment back that you were probably criticising Led By Donkeys for what they were prioritising rather than making a point about PR, but I'd already put my reply by then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 2 hours ago, MazzyStar said: Another “led by donkeys” stinker. Is there a worse campaign group out there? Yes, the Labour Party, for one. Could you imagine the Vegan Society suddenly promoting meat? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocketman Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 10 hours ago, MazzyStar said: Another “led by donkeys” stinker. Is there a worse campaign group out there? what are their previous stinkers? I find their stuff very good and don't recall any "stinkers" - also consider that maintaining the status quo and the lack of any will for parliamentary reform inc introducing a system to replace FPTP and scrapping HoL is a priority issue to be raised. Otherwise we just see the continuation of the same types of parliamentarians, politics, and policies that has taken us to the self-serving, isolationist, right of centre focus we currently have that is largely led by the big two parties' self-preservation and self-interest. So on the back of that and in response to your question, I would say there are hundreds worse campaign groups kicking about. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 13 hours ago, BTFD said: The argument against proportional representation on here was always that the Farage Party would have a voice in parliament. We've now started down the path towards proper fascism, so I'm not sure how well denying democracy to the far right has worked for us. I would be quite happy for the Farage Party to have a voice in parliament because every time they open their mouths they sound like idiots. At the moment, their views get reported unchallenged by a largely compliant MSM and their threat to steal votes from the Tories means they have colossal influence on UK politics even with zero MPs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 15 hours ago, MazzyStar said: Another “led by donkeys” stinker. Is there a worse campaign group out there? Britain First Countryside Alliance Taxpayers Alliance PETA Animal Rising Probably others, antivax loonballs and big-oil anti wind-farm dupes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 11 minutes ago, coprolite said: Britain First Countryside Alliance Taxpayers Alliance PETA Animal Rising Probably others, antivax loonballs and big-oil anti wind-farm dupes. What exactly has led by donkeys achieved other than making middle class people feel good about themselves for opposing the tories? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 7 minutes ago, MazzyStar said: What exactly has led by donkeys achieved other than making middle class people feel good about themselves for opposing the tories? I don't know who they are. So i'd guess nothing. Are you saying you prefer Britain First? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 16 minutes ago, coprolite said: I don't know who they are. So i'd guess nothing. Are you saying you prefer Britain First? I don’t want to get too involved, but you could say Britain first and their far right pals have achieved much more than Led by Donkeys without necessarily preferring them. The politics of led by donkeys is broadly vapid, centrist shite. They’re still far preferably to fascists, obviously. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 16 minutes ago, coprolite said: I don't know who they are. So i'd guess nothing. Are you saying you prefer Britain First? Of course I think there are groups that are worse, including Britain first. It was a flippant remark. The likes of Led by donkeys/FBPE/James O’Brien showed just how far their opposition to the tories goes from 2016-2019, when they were presented with a candidate promoting real change they shit the bed and did everything they could to keep the tories in power. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 5 minutes ago, MazzyStar said: Of course I think there are groups that are worse, including Britain first. It was a flippant remark. I know you do, i was being a dick to amuse myself. 5 minutes ago, MazzyStar said: The likes of Led by donkeys/FBPE/James O’Brien showed just how far their opposition to the tories goes from 2016-2019, when they were presented with a candidate promoting real change they shit the bed and did everything they could to keep the tories in power. I don't know the details of those particular groups politics, but the way the supposed moderate left enabled the defenestration and demonisation of Corbyn (who was only a moderate Social Democrat by European standards) killed any lingering hopes i had for the "Labour" party. So, aye, agree. 13 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said: I don’t want to get too involved, but you could say Britain first and their far right pals have achieved much more than Led by Donkeys without necessarily preferring them. The politics of led by donkeys is broadly vapid, centrist shite. They’re still far preferably to fascists, obviously. Maybe they could learn something from the proper nutters about organisation and PR. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 16 hours ago, MazzyStar said: In the grand scheme of things, I dont really care that Keir Starmer doesn’t want proportional representation. What I do care about is that Keir Starmer won’t raise income tax on the wealthiest, nationalise public services and many other abandoned policies of his. That’s not to say I didn’t think he’d abandon these policies, because it’s definitely unsurprising that he has. The main point of my first post wasn’t really about being for or against PR, and my main issue with Led By Donkeys in this case is their insistence on using Starmers position on PR as their main criticism of him when ,in my opinion, there are much more effective criticisms of Starmer. Perhaps they have already criticised Starmer for some of the things I’ve mentioned and I’ve just not seen it. I’m also fairly certain that proportional representation isn’t something that is a priority of many people at the moment, which makes Led By Donkeys stunt even stranger. I think their post was a bit flat tbh. As an ex Labour Party member I have pretty major criticisms of Starmer and I have no fucking idea what he actually stands for. But LBD have done some really good stuff in the past. Their past criticisms of the corrupt Johnson and then the catastrophic Truss and her band of mental libertarian moonhowlers were really good. You are right though that PR is not a priority for most people just now. Getting rid of the Tories in 2024 and paying this winter's gas bill are higher up the priority scale. Although I wouldn't put too much hope in PM Starmer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarHibee Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 3 hours ago, MazzyStar said: What exactly has led by donkeys achieved other than making middle class people feel good about themselves for opposing the tories? ^^^ Still thinks there's a "middle class". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 It's been a couple of weeks now, so it has settled in. But I still like the old thread title better. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 1 hour ago, StellarHibee said: ^^^ Still thinks there's a "middle class". Middle class is what used to be the working class. Then there's the rich c***s and the underclass. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Suspect Device said: Middle class is what used to be the working class. Then there's the rich c***s and the underclass. That’s maybe not totally accurate but it’s a reasonable shorthand. The problem with many ‘middle class’ people is that they think their interests are more aligned with the ‘rich cùnts’ than with the ‘underclass’. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Granny Danger said: That’s maybe not totally accurate but it’s a reasonable shorthand. The problem with many ‘middle class’ people is that they think their interests are more aligned with the ‘rich cùnts’ than with the ‘underclass’. That used to mystify me, but I've gradually come to accept that it's less to do with thinking their interests are aligned with the wealthy, and more to do with ensuring they have as many people as possible to feel superior to in this world. The frisson of self-satisfied disgust at the bone-idle homeless waster, who could just get a job if they really wanted one. The denial of the growing need for charities to feed more and more working people who've made a decision to stay poor. The smug pleasure at the sight of kids in worn school uniform, whose parents shouldn't have had children if they couldn't afford them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawpar Posted September 1, 2023 Author Share Posted September 1, 2023 10 hours ago, scottsdad said: It's been a couple of weeks now, so it has settled in. But I still like the old thread title better. Agreed. Back as requested. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarHibee Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 What's the point of Labour (Those other tory b*****ds)? That would do just fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 22 hours ago, Suspect Device said: Middle class is what used to be the working class. Then there's the rich c***s and the underclass. Ditch the old definitions a qualified plumber probably has greater earning potential than say a teacher or a nurse, the middle class is now anyone with a saleable skill, and then as you say there's the rich cunts and the precariat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted September 2, 2023 Share Posted September 2, 2023 Reeves gets seal of approval from 91 year old Republican Senator. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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