What is the point of labour ?

[Paco]

Overall it’s just not a great look tbh! People are calling him Labour’s Michael Howard but I’m sitting firm on him being Labour’s Theresa May atm.

Miliband for me. He’ll poll fairly well throughout, be dragged to the right on every key issue but when push comes to shove, Tory England will vote Tory.

Excuses will range somewhere ‘balancing the books’ and sinking brown people on dinghies with torpedoes.

[NotThePars]

Miliband for me. He’ll poll fairly well throughout, be dragged to the right on every key issue but when push comes to shove, Tory England will vote Tory.

Excuses will range somewhere ‘balancing the books’ and sinking brown people on dinghies with torpedoes.

He’ll probably gain 30 seats and use that as a justification to stay on.

I’d be genuinely to see how he would govern if he somehow fluked a win. I have no idea what a Starmer government would prioritise.

[San Starko Rover]

It’s actually embarrassing how bad Labour are these days and no wonder they’ve been wiped out up here. Westminster is run by a clown with stupid hair who is a known racist and proven liar, the Cabinet is full of very shady chancers who are lining the pockets of every relative or passing acquaintance with taxpayers money.

This has to be the most useless and corrupt government we’ve ever seen in the UK who have run up the national debt to ludicrous levels, tanked the economy and killed thousands during the pandemic and Brexit. Labour should be streets ahead in the Polls, this government is an absolute gift to any competent opposition party. But we’ve got the abstention party lead by A Knight sitting on every single fence. How the hell did the Labour Party end up with a leader who has a title, he’s hardly man of the people. I honestly don’t see how they come back, England has gone so far to the right that the Tory policies mirror the National Fronts of the 70s.

[welshbairn]

6 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

England has gone so far to the right that the Tory policies mirror the National Fronts of the 70s.

[Guest Jedi]

I think a Starmer govt would prioritise their traditional issues tbh...proper funding for public services, higher taxation for the (much) better off, social justice, a proper public building works programme, including social housing, tackling climate change, creating green jobs, a much fairer welfare system, higher corporation tax, extending devolution, replacing the House of Lords, more power for trade unions, proper investment in education, the Health Service and child care.....that sort of thing.

After England has had 4 years of Brexit and its effects, and indeed another 4 years of the bumbling buffoon...we shall see.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Jedi

[NotThePars]

lol

[git-intae-thum]

Are you sitting comfortably.

Then I'll begin

3 hours ago, Jedi said:

I think a Starmer govt would prioritise their traditional issues tbh...proper funding for public services, higher taxation for the (much) better off, social justice, a proper public building works programme, including social housing, tackling climate change, creating green jobs, a much fairer welfare system, higher corporation tax, extending devolution, replacing the House of Lords, more power for trade unions, proper investment in education, the Health Service and child care.....that sort of thing.

After England has had 4 years of Brexit and its effects, and indeed another 4 years of the bumbling buffoon...we shall see.

And that's the end of the story.

[Theroadlesstravelled]

7 hours ago, Jedi said:

I think a Starmer govt would prioritise their traditional issues tbh...proper funding for public services, higher taxation for the (much) better off, social justice, a proper public building works programme, including social housing, tackling climate change, creating green jobs, a much fairer welfare system, higher corporation tax, extending devolution, replacing the House of Lords, more power for trade unions, proper investment in education, the Health Service and child care.....that sort of thing.

You’re thinking of Santa m8.

 

In the real world the country is already skint and we’ll be worse off by paying for Brexit for the next 20 years.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

7 hours ago, Jedi said:

I think a Starmer govt would prioritise their traditional issues tbh...proper funding for public services, higher taxation for the (much) better off, social justice, a proper public building works programme, including social housing, tackling climate change, creating green jobs, a much fairer welfare system, higher corporation tax, extending devolution, replacing the House of Lords, more power for trade unions, proper investment in education, the Health Service and child care.....that sort of thing.

After England has had 4 years of Brexit and its effects, and indeed another 4 years of the bumbling buffoon...we shall see.

Since when has extending devolution been one of their traditional issues?  Are you fucking high?

[bendan]

26 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

 

The one thing they could do with any permanence would be to get in and switch the electoral system to PR, I'm extremely unconvinced they would do this.

Exactly. Which goes to show they put short-term self interest above anything else.

[Fullerene]

41 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

They probably would make a start on a lot of that but the press would just relentlessly monster them for the whole time and the tories would get back in and undo it all.

The one thing they could do with any permanence would be to get in and switch the electoral system to PR, I'm extremely unconvinced they would do this.

Yes.  The electoral system gives the impression that the Tories are more popular in the UK than they really are.

Almost every election since the 70s would have been a coalition of some sort.  It is unlikely Brexit would have happened (since only the Tories were really pushing it). 

A period of consensus politics would be preferable to a Tory government terrified of its own extremist wing.

[Wee-Bey]

9 hours ago, Jedi said:

I think a Starmer govt would prioritise their traditional issues tbh...proper funding for public services, higher taxation for the (much) better off, social justice, a proper public building works programme, including social housing, tackling climate change, creating green jobs, a much fairer welfare system, higher corporation tax, extending devolution, replacing the House of Lords, more power for trade unions, proper investment in education, the Health Service and child care.....that sort of thing.

After England has had 4 years of Brexit and its effects, and indeed another 4 years of the bumbling buffoon...we shall see.

Excuse me sir, I'm an officer from Her Majesty's Wallet Inspectorate.

May I have a word ?

[Guest Jedi]

The right wing media really are good at their jobs....'here come Labour to bankrupt the country with their mad spending..again'...Despite the fact that the Tories have currently racked up the highest ever level of govt borrowing, and that statistically Tory govt's have created more national debt than every Lab govt, due to their borrowing levels in the past.(have to pay for those low taxes and low public spending somehow).

Since when has devolution been a traditional issue for them? Since about 1974, and ever since...I would call 46 years long enough for a policy to be 'traditional'.

Don't deny that both Covid and Breixt will cause serious economic damage to the UK (that applies to Scotland as well though), and that finances will be tighter, particularly with the eye watering Tory borrowing for the next 4 years. Still able to make better choices on how the cash which is available is spent though...imagine talking about a 5% increase in taxes for the best off, and increasing corporation tax....the communists that they are.

Still, maybe Andrew Wilson's 10 year austerity binge of slashing public services will be better in the long run...

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Jedi

[John Lambies Doos]

I think it was Perry Anderson who said Scottish Independence was simultaneously more inevitable and less possible now than in 2014.

Surprised he got air time with that comment. Scottish Independence is inevitable now, it can't be stopped

[John Lambies Doos]

He wrote it down.

Surprised it was reported

[SANTAN]

1 hour ago, Fullerene said:

Yes.  The electoral system gives the impression that the Tories are more popular in the UK than they really are.

Almost every election since the 70s would have been a coalition of some sort.  It is unlikely Brexit would have happened (since only the Tories were really pushing it). 

A period of consensus politics would be preferable to a Tory government terrified of its own extremist wing.

Absolute codswallop. From the MSM to UKIP, the only topic of discussion pre Brexit was Brexit. This wasn't being pushed by the Conservatives mainly. 

[SANTAN]

1 minute ago, MixuFruit said:

Really? from the 70s to now? I think this is a bit revisionist.

Lol

I mean the past 10 years. Since farage popped up and gained traction, the UKIP local elections and them getting a singular MP was significant to the overall conversation. 

[SANTAN]

1 minute ago, MixuFruit said:

Oh sure. I think the point being made was, had there been coalition because of PR all that time, the ~8 million people who voted for UKIP would see some of their policies put into place and wouldn't have needed the brexit pressure valve.

That's very generous of you to flesh out his point in a way better than he had. You could definitely say his language was dismissive and saying it was only the Tories isn't correct or accurate but of course is a tangent, I don't disagree with the wider point. 

[Wee-Bey]

If we had PR at some point in the last 40 years, perhaps we would have ended up with some sort of 'Norway' style deal or EFTA membership and avoided having a referendum and all this nonsense of the last 4 years.

 

[pandarilla]

It's hard to argue for PR to make Britain more democratic, and then to say that it would've helped prevent something that was voted through on a referendum.