What is the point of labour ?

[Wee-Bey]

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

Current opinion polling has the Tories on 39% and Labour on...39% Some pulls have the Tories 1 point ahead...I would call that neck and neck.

Starmer has a net approval rating at present of +5, Johnson is -8.

To be neck and neck at this stage is fine.

They should be 20 points ahead m80.

[NotThePars]

You know they say all men are created equal, but you look at me and you look at Samoa Joe and you can see that statement is NOT TRUE! See, normally if you go one-on-one with another wrestler you got a fifty/fifty chance of winning. But I'm a genetic freak, and I'm not normal! So you got a 25 percent at best at beat me! And then you add Kurt Angle to the mix? You-the chances of winning drastically go down. See, the 3-Way at Sacrifice, you got a 33 and a third chance of winning. But I! I got a 66 and two thirds chance of winning, cuz Kurt Angle KNOOOWS he can't beat me, and he's not even gonna try. So, Samoa Joe, you take your thirty three and a third chance minus my twenty five percent chance (if we was to go one on one) and you got an eight and a third chance of winning at Sacrifice. But then you take my 75 perchance-chance of winnin' (if we was to go one on one), and then add 66 and two thirds…percents, I got a 141 2/3 chance of winning at Sacrifice! Señor Joe? The numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you at Sacrifice as any other leader would be 20 points ahead

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by NotThePars

[renton]

36 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Seems he fought valiantly for the SNP all the way through including the Blair and Brown years, then when Boris and Brexit happened and the polls for independence reached 58%, he had a road to Damascus moment and thought he'd wasted his whole life, Keir Starmer and Richard Leonard are the people to lead us to the promised land.

Tbf, you could imagine someone breaking psychologically trying to listen to a Richard Leonard question from start to finish. You'd be willing to believe anything to avoid him asking a follow up....

[Academically Deficient]

4 hours ago, MixuFruit said:

Parties I'd like to see in an independent Scotland:

 

• 'I suppose we'll have to make the best of it' right wing party. Have all had sex precisely 1 (one) time.

Their slogan on the first post-indy election: "Tried It Once, Didn't Like It. Vote Kirk Elder Party".

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

They could join up with the ultra-Christian “SNP forcing kids to be trans” parties you get in the Highlands the now.

Is that the Wings Party?

[emoji57]

[Guest Jedi]

Road to Damascus moment......Boris and Brexit, and 58% in the polls....not quite .........Andrew Wilson's Growth Commission, and being outside the EU for some time, and a pretty terrible couple of years from the SNP, though...

[Granny Danger]

15 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Road to Damascus moment......Boris and Brexit, and 58% in the polls....not quite .........Andrew Wilson's Growth Commission, and being outside the EU for some time, and a pretty terrible couple of years from the SNP, though...

I’ve read this post three times and don’t understand it.

[Guest Jedi]

Okay....what 'changed; for me with the SNP after 36 years........the prospectus of the Growth Commission Report, and its proposal to cut public services for up to 10 years, the prospect of being 'Independent' but outside the EU, the centralisation of decision making in the party around a small cabal, their treatment of teachers and the schools issue in particular over the past 9 months, the handling of the Salmond inquiry, their record on public services....education, the health service in particular.

[Granny Danger]

4 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Okay....what 'changed; for me with the SNP after 36 years........the prospectus of the Growth Commission Report, and its proposal to cut public services for up to 10 years, the prospect of being 'Independent' but outside the EU, the centralisation of decision making in the party around a small cabal, their treatment of teachers and the schools issue in particular over the past 9 months, the handling of the Salmond inquiry, their record on public services....education, the health service in particular.

I was a member of the Labour Party for over 20 years.  A councillor for 10 years, holder of various party positions including a member of the Scottish Executive for two years.

I couldn’t give my reasons for not voting Labour in 10 paragraphs let alone one.

 

[Guest Jedi]

Oh I could produce more than 10 paragraphs as well....but one is probably best for a chat forum. The above is the tip of the iceberg.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Jedi

[Caledonian1]

25 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Oh I could produce more than 10 paragraphs as well....but one is probably best for a chat forum. The above is the top of the iceberg.

Here;s a tip...........it's the tip

[NotThePars]

38 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

I have 600 confirmed kills on Halo

My kill death ratio was 4.5 at one point

[welshbairn]

I don't get this sudden aversion to being independent but outside the EU, we were always going to have to reapply after independence.

[Wee-Bey]

[Guest Jedi]

Take the 'tip', that pesky 'o' key next to the 'i' 

SNP policy from the mid-80s, onwards was 'Independence in Europe', with that slogan on many a leaflet at the time.I know that the ambition for that still remains, but still think Brexit has stalled it for some time.

I know the counter argument would be that 'your 'devo-max' still leaves us outside the EU, as the UK has left', but I hold out the hope for (probably) a 2nd term Labour govt being able to conduct a successful rejoin referendum. Im still not convinced that the SNP will be truthful with folk on the transition to EU membership post-Indy.

The other counter argument could be...Norway eg is 'outside; the EU, and they do okay...yes and no, in the sense that they still have access to the single market through EFTA.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Jedi

[Baxter Parp]

2 hours ago, Jedi said:

Okay....what 'changed; for me with the SNP after 36 years........the prospectus of the Growth Commission Report, and its proposal to cut public services for up to 10 years, the prospect of being 'Independent' but outside the EU, the centralisation of decision making in the party around a small cabal, their treatment of teachers and the schools issue in particular over the past 9 months, the handling of the Salmond inquiry, their record on public services....education, the health service in particular.

The Growth Commission Report does not propose that Scotland should cut public services for up to 10 years. Problem solved.

Anybody who reverses their stance on Scottish Independence because of party politics is either a liar or a moron.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Baxter Parp

[oneteaminglasgow]

10 minutes ago, Jedi said:

I hold out the hope for (probably) a 2nd term Labour govt being able to conduct a successful rejoin referendum.

Is this based on anything other than wild optimism?

I can’t see either Labour or any other U.K. party running with that as a policy, or being elected with that as a policy anytime in the near future. 

[Guest Jedi]

30 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

is either a liar or a moron.

Must be both.

Their proposals imply another decade of the sort of restraint on public spending that Scotland is currently experiencing. If this is austerity, then austerity would be extended under the Commission’s proposals.

Such an approach would see spending on public services and benefits fall by about 4% of GDP over that decade. Add on the growing amount the Scottish government would have to spend on servicing its increasing post-independence debt, and overall public spending and hence the deficit would fall by 3% of GDP.

"The ageing of the population - which adds to pressures on the health, social care and state pension budgets - means that keeping to an overall spending increase of just 0.5% a year would likely require cuts to many other public services."

 

• 3.187: During the transition period real increases in public spending should be limited to sufficiently less than GDP growth over the business cycle to reduce the deficit to below 3% within 5 to 10 years.  (The Growth Commission Report)
• “... it is important to have a clear, credible fiscal trajectory planned. This should move with pace, aiming to achieve a sustainable fiscal position within 10 years. This timeline is necessary to ensure consistency with EU fiscal rules, as well as recognising the limits with financing fiscal deficits of anywhere close to the current level.

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/13072

https://www.insider.co.uk/news/growth-commission-institute-fiscal-studies-12713794

The commission has claimed to reject the existing ‘austerity model’ but has replaced it with one that is necessarily harsher. Necessarily so because, unlike the situation for Scotland remaining within the UK, the Commission suggests than an independent Scotland would have to get its deficit below 3% within a decade.

“[The Growth Commission] does not reject austerity in reality.  It would create the conditions for austerity politics to thrive”  – Jonathon Shafi, Co-founder of the Radical Independence Campaig

https://www.these-islands.co.uk/publications/i307/gc_5_the_truth_about_austerity.aspx

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Jedi

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I was a member of the Labour Party for over 20 years.  A councillor for 10 years, holder of various party positions including a member of the Scottish Executive for two years.
I couldn’t give my reasons for not voting Labour in 10 paragraphs let alone one.
 

Joined the Labour Party at 18 in 1985. Left in 1994 when Blair was elected. Held various elected positions within Scottish Labour Students and was twice a member of NUS Scotland Executive as a Labour candidate. Stood as council candidate in 1992.

Even in that period of 9 years the party changed from the one I joined. I probably started off on the right of the Labour Party - by the time I left I was on the soft left - I hadn't changed - Labour had.

[Baxter Parp]

12 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Must be both.

Their proposals imply another decade of the sort of restraint on public spending that Scotland is currently experiencing. If this is austerity, then austerity would be extended under the Commission’s proposals.

Such an approach would see spending on public services and benefits fall by about 4% of GDP over that decade. Add on the growing amount the Scottish government would have to spend on servicing its increasing post-independence debt, and overall public spending and hence the deficit would fall by 3% of GDP.

"The ageing of the population - which adds to pressures on the health, social care and state pension budgets - means that keeping to an overall spending increase of just 0.5% a year would likely require cuts to many other public services."

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/13072

https://www.insider.co.uk/news/growth-commission-institute-fiscal-studies-12713794

 

 

 

From the IFS link: The Commission claims their proposals do not amount to austerity as public spending would be increasing in real terms.  Which is right - real terms increases in public spending does not = austerity.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Baxter Parp