What is the point of labour ?

[O'Kelly Isley III]

26 minutes ago, sophia said:

You may be correct to have GF nosing in front but my word, it was a crowded field back in the day.

I'm sorry @ScotiaNostra I'm not sure that I follow you. You may well be correct and things may get better for a wee while but then what?

Thing is SKS is just following the same strategy as Nicola has in being determined to scare no horses. It didn't get her very far and I'd imagine we'll be saying the same whenever the next labour leadership election is precipitated.

 

 

Tommy Graham, God bless him, a politician who at age 15 ran away from a circus to join a school.

[ScotiaNostra]

42 minutes ago, sophia said:

You may be correct to have GF nosing in front but my word, it was a crowded field back in the day.

I'm sorry @ScotiaNostra I'm not sure that I follow you. You may well be correct and things may get better for a wee while but then what?

Thing is SKS is just following the same strategy as Nicola has in being determined to scare no horses. It didn't get her very far and I'd imagine we'll be saying the same whenever the next labour leadership election is precipitated.

 

 

I just have a hope now that Labour once in power will make things better and once in power and showing a better run governance will also start to edge towards some of those policies they are keeping at arms length for now. That may be misplaced but all voting is in hope to some extent.

I certainly am not claiming I am right and anyone else is wrong. In a way I guess im just trying to formulate how I feel and work through some of the questions I have that are going to influence how I vote. Which isnt as easy as it used to be.

So just putting out there how im feeling now in regards voting and politics in regards where we are at the moment

 

if that makes any sense at all

[Guest]

I hadn't heard of Tommy Graham so googled him now and read this.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1998/09/scot-s17.html

Included in it is a nugget on Anas Sarwar's dad:

Quote

Also in Glasgow, millionaire Labour MP, Mohammed Sarwar, has been suspended and faces legal action for allegedly attempting to bribe political opponents.

[oneteaminglasgow]

I think the one thing that can definitely be said for the SNP is that they’ll fight incredibly hard to stop any row back of devolution, which is absolutely clearly an ambition for Westminster.

I’m not sure a Labour-led Scottish government would, particularly if it was coming from a Labour-led U.K. Government.

Protecting devolution is, and has been, vital to protecting people in Scotland from the worst excesses of austerity - which Labour are currently promising to continue delivering.

Even if they’re not capable of delivering independence presently, which is a legitimate argument to make tbh, they are the party which will keep doing that in Scotland.

Edit: exhibit A

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by oneteaminglasgow

[StellarHibee]

My arse Labour will continue to support devolution.

[Granny Danger]

2 hours ago, MazzyStar said:

What about Scotland? 

We need Independence first.  Once that happens there will be a realignment of the party political structures which will be more meaningful in a PR system of voting.

Without Independence we’re pretty much fucked as the voting patterns in England will determine who we are governed by.

 

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

There is absolutely no guarantee it will be better under Labour than the Tories, that's the lie Starmer and Co want people to buy into.  The SNP is currently floundering, no doubt of that, but voting Labour and expecting tangible change is a dangerously lazy option and naive in the extreme, it will be akin to blanketing Scotland in cement for decades to come.

I'm 67 and I well recall Scotland returning hordes of mediocre Labour time-servers to Westminster - George Foulkes being the living embodiment.  They didn't produce back then and I won't be gambling on them doing it in future.  Keep the faith brother.

Just a bairn!  
 

Aye, one of the few positives of being our age is remembering the amount of times we were fucked over by the people’s party, and I say that as someone who was a Labour Party activist for 20 years.

[invergowrie arab]

I'm trying to think back to the last big cohort of Labour MPs and trying to be fair minded and pick out the decent ones.

I can't think of any - were they all self serving arseholes desperate for enoblement or simple thickos?

John McCallion was decent but that was about 25 years ago.

Whilst I can see the attraction in giving the SNP a kick up the arse I'm not sure the resuscitation of snidey c***s like Douglas Alexander, common or garden Tories like Tom Harris or electing the next Pamela Nash would be my priority.

[GTee]

I'll continue to vote SNP, until independence, which will probably never happen in my lifetime. Scotland the Brave my arse.

[Salt n Vinegar]

I may not know much, but if there's something I can be pretty sure about it's that voting Labour or Libdem will never achieve independence for Scotland.  Anyone voting for anything other than a pro-independence party who claims to want independence is deluding themselves.  

Another Westminster government next year will just mean about another 5 years before there's any chance to demand meaningful change.  Meanwhile the Labtories will undermine devolution further. 

 

[GTee]

I am a proud Englishman, but l am also British and part of the Union - said noone ever

[GTee]

4 hours ago, ScotiaNostra said:

I well remember Labour sitting on their arses taking everything for granted in Scotland especially, which is where I see the SNP now. I honestly just dont see the SNP delivering independence and I feel their governance over last while has been poor. I respect your view and reply though 

 

 

Labour won't deliver independence

[Boo Khaki]

11 hours ago, KirkieRR said:

I share your concerns but not your solution. A Labour revival in Scotland would de interpreted by them as a return to the prior status quo

The SNP are poor, ALBA are bonkers, but independence is the only way.

Absolutely a million times this.

There are a hefty number of Labour figures who still evidently believe that Scots are only trifling with the SNP and SLab are the true party of natural order. This, despite having their arses handed to them over and over in both Holyrood and Westminster elections. 

Handing any sort of control back to Labour would just encourage these gimps to believe that they were correct all along, and you'd see an immediate return to the McConnell style of Scottish Government where the only consideration is for what London HQ wants, and to f**k with Scotland.

[renton]

11 hours ago, ScotiaNostra said:

I just have a hope now that Labour once in power will make things better and once in power and showing a better run governance will also start to edge towards some of those policies they are keeping at arms length for now. That may be misplaced but all voting is in hope to some extent.

I certainly am not claiming I am right and anyone else is wrong. In a way I guess im just trying to formulate how I feel and work through some of the questions I have that are going to influence how I vote. Which isnt as easy as it used to be.

So just putting out there how im feeling now in regards voting and politics in regards where we are at the moment

 

if that makes any sense at all

So, whenever Starmer or Reeves gets on TV and says "there is no money for this", "we can't do everything we want" you think they are smirking at the camera and giving a big nudge and a wink?

You think that dropping every single policy and narrative they've had to date in favour of recklessly Conservative fiscal rules would provide them a mandate to enact any progressive policies after an election? 

A party who's conception of devolution is a Labour First Minister in Edinburgh or Cardiff staying by the phone on a Monday waiting on some hungover flunky from Starmer's press office WhatsApping them their weekly talking points?

Labour are telling you, every day, that they are going to be relentlessly Conservative, unwilling to divert from the already subsistence department spending plans,  unwilling to confront the EU elephant in the room and willing to drop anything that your average miserable Tory voter in the Shires disapproves of because the Mail told them to. Yet you have a "hope" that they will improve the "average" person's life quickly?

f**k me.

Edited July 25, 2023 by renton

[Wee-Bey]

Yeah, these people are exactly what they appear to be. Unpleasant and factional with no aspirations to improve people's lives to any significant degree. The country is in the shitter and they've correctly figured out that all they need to do is offer to be more professional in managing the decline. Cushy board positions with gambling firms, payday loan companies and privatised industries to follow.

The sensibles are back in charge baby. 

[Granny Danger]

If Starmer had any intention of introducing progressive policies he wouldn’t be purging the party of anyone remotely left wing.  He’s doing so because he wants to avoid any internal criticism when he’s implementing Tory Lite policies.

[scottsdad]

3 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

If Starmer had any intention of introducing progressive policies he wouldn’t be purging the party of anyone remotely left wing.  He’s doing so because he wants to avoid any internal criticism when he’s implementing Tory Lite policies.

That, and the fact that when the left had control of the party the made a complete and utter cock up of it. 

Corbyn and his mob were utterly unelectable. 

[renton]

1 hour ago, scottsdad said:

That, and the fact that when the left had control of the party the made a complete and utter cock up of it. 

Corbyn and his mob were utterly unelectable. 

The classic Labour dichotomy, you get to run the country only when you promise not to try and do anything.

Edited July 25, 2023 by renton

[Granny Danger]

8 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

That, and the fact that when the left had control of the party the made a complete and utter cock up of it. 

Corbyn and his mob were utterly unelectable. 

Corbyn was a terrible leader, particularly for the social media age.  The policies were by and large sound.

[welshbairn]

6 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

That, and the fact that when the left had control of the party the made a complete and utter cock up of it. 

Corbyn and his mob were utterly unelectable. 

They got close in 2017, if their campaign hadn't been undermined internally by the right, they might have crossed the line. That and having a clear Brexit strategy.