What is the point of labour ?

[Jedi2]

3 hours ago, Highlandmagar said:

And that 2 year freeze kn public spending was only to get right wing press on side . There was absolutely no need to put a freeze on spending as is now publicly acknowledged. 

Freeze on public spending...where else so we hear that? Council Tax per chance?

[Salvo Montalbano]

6 hours ago, Jedi2 said:

Fundamentally any Labour govt will always look to fund the public sector and will borrow to do so.

The Tories, by contrast and instinct, will always look to cut taxes and reduce public spending as far as possible.

Apart from this one you mean? High tax burden, increased public debt... up is down and down is up.

[Billy Jean King]

6 hours ago, Jedi2 said:

Fundamentally any Labour govt will always look to fund the public sector and will borrow to do so.

Be still my splitting sides. Have you seen the National Debt they are set to inherit ?

[Jedi2]

50 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

Apart from this one you mean? High tax burden, increased public debt... up is down and down is up.

Indeed. However they have an increased public debt due to their very high rate of borrowing (which is the norm for a Tory govt), and such high borrowing to offset the madness of Brexit, and their own crashing of the economy under Truss (which was of course a wild attempt to cut taxes too far, too fast).

Of course in their latest budget they are back to trying to cut taxes and reduce public spending again.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Jedi2

[Wee-Bey]

Labour will look to 'fund' the public sector by punting whatever is left of it off

[Jedi2]

43 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

Be still my splitting sides. Have you seen the National Debt they are set to inherit ?

The UK does have £1.6 trillion of 'non-financial assets'  though, largely including government owned buildings/property.

Liabilities in the form of govt debt is around £660 billion (about 25% of GDP).

However, proper management of the assets, (which is a current Rachel Reeves proposal) building up essentially a sovereign wealth fund by using them to invest could (it is estimated) unlock borrowing of around £65 billion.

Again, rather than chasing tax cuts with their borrowing a Labour govt is far more likely than the Tories to invest in public services, and despite the current public deficit figures and headlines, has the means to do so.

Estimates also have Labour plans as investing 60% more in public services and infrastructure than the Tories have done over the course of the next Parliament 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Jedi2

[Freedom Farter]

9 hours ago, houston_bud said:

The Labour Party has always swung between more centrist 'pragmatic' politicians and those further to the left who see themselves as more ideological pure. 

The neoliberals who've consolidated around Starmer view themselves as ideologically pure and they've looked to rid their party of any vestiges of socialist thought which they view as impure and tainted.

Also, I think describing the project behind Starmer as merely pragmatic is far too charitable. It has been cynical and plutocratic:

https://archive.ph/AaDeJ

[Jedi2]

37 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said:

The neoliberals who've consolidated around Starmer view themselves as ideologically pure and they've looked to rid their party of any vestiges of socialist thought which they view as impure and tainted.

Also, I think describing the project behind Starmer as merely pragmatic is far too charitable. It has been cynical and plutocratic:

https://archive.ph/AaDeJ

Politician has wealthy backers and donors for his leadership campaign shocker..would be difficult to find many who don't have a similar background 

Should all donations have been declared? Absolutely. The fact that they weren't isn't good, but whether in Scotland, or at UK level, there are always 'levers' being pulled to get leaders elected.

[Freedom Farter]

1 hour ago, Jedi2 said:

Politician has wealthy backers and donors for his leadership campaign shocker..would be difficult to find many who don't have a similar background 

Should all donations have been declared? Absolutely. The fact that they weren't isn't good, but whether in Scotland, or at UK level, there are always 'levers' being pulled to get leaders elected.

It really wouldn't be difficult to find, there's the party leader prior to Starmer. 

Edit: To be clear, I don't give a toss that the money behind Starmer was "undeclared". That's just The Times - who themselves support plutocracy - trying to construct an idea of good (open) and bad (clandestine) plutocracy when really its all bad.  

It's a tragedy that democracy within the Labour party was subverted that way and that control has again been ripped away from the worker movement.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Freedom Farter

[RiffRaff]

I see Keir Starmer got the reception in Glasgow that anyone condoning War Crimes deserves.

 

[TheScarf]

Good, the fucking Tory cunt.

[BFTD]

Christ, I see the argument for Sir Keef has expanded beyond "he's actually going to do socialist things once in power, honest" to "well, those bad boys in the SNP and Conservative parties are just in it for themselves, so why shouldn't he?"

Vote Keef for a change of tie; he deserves a shot at making himself some proper money.

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

4 hours ago, TheScarf said:

Good, the fucking Tory c**t.

As much as Starmer deserves criticism, many of these people who stand outside and wait to harass him are absolutely mental. ‘How many kids have you murdered today?!’.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Bonksy+HisChristianParade

[BFTD]

15 minutes ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

As much as Starmer deserves criticism, many of these people who stand outside and wait to harass him are absolutely mental. ‘How many kids have you murdered today?!’.

Damning indictment of the state of social services, if this is what unhappy parents have been reduced to.

I personally wouldn't choose Keef to dispose of my children, but I'm not sure who'd be the modern MP of choice to consume the souls of children since Norman Tebbit got kicked upstairs to the Lords.

[carpetmonster]

3 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Damning indictment of the state of social services, if this is what unhappy parents have been reduced to.

I personally wouldn't choose Keef to dispose of my children, but I'm not sure who'd be the modern MP of choice to consume the souls of children since Norman Tebbit got kicked upstairs to the Lords.

My kids are foreign so I’d be spoiled for choice. 

[BFTD]

10 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

My kids are foreign so I’d be spoiled for choice. 

I'll be amazed if some of your antediluvian representatives haven't started carelessly munching on foetuses on the House floor.

[CambieBud]

https://apple.news/AuG98UtVGTRSRMUbLMdcUHQ
 

It’s going to be fantastic when Sir Manofthepeople becomes PM! Socialism you know

Edited December 8, 2023 by CambieBud

[Highlandmagar]

8 minutes ago, CambieBud said:

https://apple.news/AuG98UtVGTRSRMUbLMdcUHQ
 

It’s going to be fantastic when Sir Manofthepeople becomes PM! Socialism you know

You mean he ISN'T going to be implementing sweeping socialist ideals? 

[KirkieRR]

8 hours ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

As much as Starmer deserves criticism, many of these people who stand outside and wait to harass him are absolutely mental. ‘How many kids have you murdered today?!’.

I will get pelters for this but when I've encountered Pro-Pal protesters before - usually at fitba matches - they have struck me as ghastly people.

Not as ghastly as the IDF (or Hamas), perhaps. But ghastly.

[BFTD]

REFUCK overtaking the Lib Dems!  

Anyone bothered to work out how much of a difference it'll make to the Conservative vote when the Farage Party withdraw from areas where Labour look like winning? Nothing like enough to make a difference to the overall result as things stand, obviously, but should still be enough to help save a few important Big Beasts.