What is the point of labour ?

[scottsdad]

40 minutes ago, I Clavdivs said:

On MUP is was proven to have worked in Scotland with fewer alcohol related deaths prior to Covid and Lockdown.

 

No it wasn't.

[I Clavdivs]

26 minutes ago, Big Bobo said:

Snp at taking feebies. Yes, I am comparing it because it is exactly the same thing the snp are doing. They are as corrupt as Labour and also massive hypocrites.

And I have already said what I think about what is happening at WM,  It is disgraceful.

It's you that is doing the deflection I Clavidus. Are you saying it is okay for the snp to take freebies but not okay for any other party? 

 

Wee bit of a difference between a couple of events tickets and accepting thousands of pounds worth of clothing for yourself and your spouse,designer glasses etc and doshing out millions in contracts to your mates for PPE during covid...but hey ,keep deflecting. 

Edited 1 hour ago by I Clavdivs

[I Clavdivs]

21 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

No it wasn't.

Research by Public Health Scotland showed a 13.4 % reduction in deaths  after implementation and averted 800 hospital admissions year since it's introduction and had most impact on those living in the 40% most deprived areas .

It also put paid to unionist scare mongering that the high end(whisky sales) drinks market would be affected .

There is no doubt the effects of binge drinking during covid has reversed some of these trends,however,there is evidence that continuation of MUP  will have a long term positive effect on the scourge of alcohol abuse.....long time ignored by previous unionist admins at Holyrood and Westmimster .

[scottsdad]

10 minutes ago, I Clavdivs said:

Research by Public Health Scotland showed a 13.4 % reduction in deaths  after implementation and averted 800 hospital admissions year since it's introduction and had most impact on those living in the 40% most deprived areas .

It also put paid to unionist scare mongering that the high end(whisky sales) drinks market would be affected .

There is no doubt the effects of binge drinking during covid has reversed some of these trends,however,there is evidence that continuation of MUP  will have a long term positive effect on the scourge of alcohol abuse.....long time ignored by previous unionist admins at Holyrood and Westmimster .

Have a look at (I think) p34 of the thread dedicated to it. PHS didn't do the research, but presented an overview of it - a very biased one at that. But ultimately the 13.4% reductions is based on this:

The main thing, if you look at March-July 2020 (during the first lockdown) the number of alcohol related deaths recorded in Scotland and England both fell, as people were being listed as Covid deaths. For me, both countries under-reported alcohol-related deaths. But the 13.4% comes from that dip you see in graph A. In Scotland it's steeper than England. 

That, and only that, is the basis of this spurious claim. 

In the 22 months from MUP being implemented and lockdown, there is no observable difference between Scotland and England (used as the control group)

[I Clavdivs]

"Spurious "...Where's your evidence /counter study ?.Are you trying to suggest Alcohol related deaths were recorded as Covid related ?...again where is your evidence ?

The report also showed  3% drop in the cheap high % market for which MUP initially targeted adding to the downward trend.

 Covid(through increased binge drinkimg) added to the alcohol death related rate as you can even see from your graph at end of 2020 an upward trend as lockdown wore on .

[strichener]

1 hour ago, scottsdad said:

No it wasn't.

Repeat a lie often enough.  The gullible public take a report from PHS with it's dodgy interpretations and believe everyone invested in MUP when they say it's working.  

It's not working, hasn't worked and won't work.  People addicted to alcohol are not going to cut back.  Simple.

[scottsdad]

13 minutes ago, I Clavdivs said:

"Spurious "...Where's your evidence /counter study ?.Are you trying to suggest Alcohol related deaths were recorded as Covid related ?...again where is your evidence ?

The report also showed  3% drop in the cheap high % market for which MUP initially targeted adding to the downward trend.

 Covid(through increased binge drinkimg) added to the alcohol death related rate as you can even see from your graph at end of 2020 an upward trend as lockdown wore on .

There is a whole thread on this, but...

your intial post said that MUP had been proven to save lives before covid - i.e. in the 22 months from May 2018 and March 2020. There isn't a single study that says this. 

Only one study, published in the Lancet where the image above was taken from, has suggested any reduction. And it included the lockdowns. 

I am absolutely, 100% suggesting that from March 2020 to July 2020 alcohol related deaths were recorded as Covid. I cannot see any other explanation why both Scotland and England saw a huge drop in alcohol related deaths in those months. Same goes for hospitalisations - hospitals were not admitting people during the height of the first lockdown, so people were at home, ill and dying of alcohol-related illnesses. And like magic, hospitalisations for alcohol related matters dropped!

[I Clavdivs]

6 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

There is a whole thread on this, but...

your intial post said that MUP had been proven to save lives before covid - i.e. in the 22 months from May 2018 and March 2020. There isn't a single study that says this. 

Only one study, published in the Lancet where the image above was taken from, has suggested any reduction. And it included the lockdowns. 

I am absolutely, 100% suggesting that from March 2020 to July 2020 alcohol related deaths were recorded as Covid. I cannot see any other explanation why both Scotland and England saw a huge drop in alcohol related deaths in those months. Same goes for hospitalisations - hospitals were not admitting people during the height of the first lockdown, so people were at home, ill and dying of alcohol-related illnesses. And like magic, hospitalisations for alcohol related matters dropped!

Again you have no independent evidence to back up your "suggestion" and explain why the drop recorded for Scotland was 13% lower than in England other than a hunch .MUP also started in 2018 so would take some time to see a positive effect as seen by graph C showing a downward trend in Scotland compared to England 2019 onwards.

It's also telling that the biggest support for continuation of MUP is in front line alcohol support groups and front line medics who deal with this scourge on a daily basis.I would rather follow there lead than evidence free suggestions made by opposition politicians.

MUP is only part of the solution and time will only tell if the positive results continue. 

[scottsdad]

7 minutes ago, I Clavdivs said:

Again you have no independent evidence to back up your "suggestion" and explain why the drop recorded for Scotland was 13% lower than in England other than a hunch .MUP also started in 2018 so would take some time to see a positive effect as seen by graph C showing a downward trend in Scotland compared to England 2019 onwards.

It's also telling that the biggest support for continuation of MUP is in front line alcohol support groups and front line medics who deal with this scourge on a daily basis.I would rather follow there lead than evidence free suggestions made by opposition politicians.

MUP is only part of the solution and time will only tell if the positive results continue. 

I just posted a study in the MUP thread - happy to take this discussion over there. 

For me this isn't party political. SNP introduced it here, Labour in Wales...it's a poor policy whichever party imposes this. It's prohibition for the poor. 

[Boo Khaki]

My personal alcohol consumption has rocketed since 2018, but I blame the f**king Tories for that, not a failed/ineffectual SNP MUP policy.

[strichener]

10 minutes ago, I Clavdivs said:

It's also telling that the biggest support for continuation of MUP is in front line alcohol support groups and front line medics who deal with this scourge on a daily basis.I would rather follow there lead than evidence free suggestions made by opposition politicians

Quelle surprise.

It's rather like Ash wanting rid of smoking and never publishing any positive pro smoking material or CAMRA never reporting any anti-drink material.