Scotland squad to face Poland (H) and Portugal (A)

[Londonwell]

If Gauld does prove to be the messiah (he won't) I'm not sure I could deal with the frustration of the way his career, or lack thereof in a Scotland sense, has panned out. 

[JS_FFC]

11 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

Gunn is quite clearly first choice. And given the opposition, quite rightly so.  

Yes that was a typo. It’s Angus Gunn 100%.

[Dunning1874]

56 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said:

Like I've said previously, i'm not specifically talking about Miller. What I am saying is that we don't tend to integrate any teenagers into the national setup like other countries do, usually we wait until they are at least 20 before they get in.

Lets say If someone like Miller has the talent (which other posters seem to rate him enough to include him) then I think it would aid his development training with better players and Miller can have an insight of the level he needs to get to to make it internationally.

Very dismissive to write off Wales as basically a two man team considering they got to the later stages of tournament football beating some big teams along the way which is an amazing achievement. There squad had a sprinkling of good players in each position with many of them starting their international careers at a young age. 

I'll give you another example in Spain then... a country absolutely blessed with talent all over the park where there is absolutely no need to thrown in 16, 17 year old etcs (Gavi, Yamal, Pino, etc) but they choose to do so anyway. They're obviously playing at a higher level and good players even that age but the idea remains, the sooner you introduce talented Scottish youth players to a higher level then they will develop quicker and better.

Fast tracking is about the future squads, getting our best young players prepared, very simple to understand...

 

 

 

 

There is an 18 year old who has played a grand total of 332 minutes of first team football in the squad.

[Butters Scotch]

32 minutes ago, Londonwell said:

Yes and Wales have went back to being pish as Bale, Ramsay and to a lesser degree Joe Allen have phased out. Using Spain as a comparison is laughable, we are not  producing young players the quality of Yamal, Gavi and Pedri, who anyone with eyes can see potential greatness in and are ideal prospects for fast tracking. What you've done here is actually defeat your own argument with this response, which is somewhat ironic. 

Okayyyyy mate

They're going through a transition period so i wouldn't be writing Wales off as "pish" just yet anyway. 

If you can't see introducing the best young talent to any national set up (something Scotland have been historically terrible at) will improve their development then I don't know what to tell you...

You could argue the way Gilmour was being hyped up at Chelsea that he was "destined for greatness" in your words when he was a teen but didn't feature for us until he was 20. I'm happy that Clarke is trying to change this by introducing the likes of Doak in now though and I think there could be a few more from next year in the likes of Rory Wilson etc.

 

[Busta Nut]

1 hour ago, Smokerson said:

Is there an issue with Hendry?

He plays in a pub league?

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, Cheese said:

I like how they still have *denotes SFA performance school graduate* 

It's one f**king player. Give it a rest.

Max Johnston is one too but the thing seems to be left off. This is a) a longer-term thing, with the oldest graduates only being 23/24 and b) sponsored by JD and therefore always going to be there. You would imagine in 5 years time there will be loads of them.

[Londonwell]

3 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said:

Okayyyyy mate

They're going through a transition period so i wouldn't be writing Wales off as "pish" just yet anyway. 

If you can't see introducing the best young talent to any national set up (something Scotland have been historically terrible at) will improve their development then I don't know what to tell you...

You could argue the way Gilmour was being hyped up at Chelsea that he was "destined for greatness" in your words when he was a teen but didn't feature for us until he was 20. I'm happy that Clarke is trying to change this by introducing the likes of Doak in now though and I think there could be a few more from next year in the likes of Rory Wilson etc.

 

Well this has turned into a tedious dialogue, hasn't it? You're now happy about something that infuriated you a few posts ago. We haven't produced the players in volume to do what you want, it's as simple as that. Anyway, let's just leave it there and agree to disagree. 

Re. The squad just announced still obviously has glaring issues but from a fresh approach aspect it's probably about as good as could be expected. Seems likely we'll move to a back 4 for these games which will allow the wingers in the squad some more game time. Interested to see how they fare. I think the Poland game in particular is quite a big one for Clarke. Another turgid affair and negative result will only serve to increase the pressure on him. 

[DA Baracus]

1 hour ago, Caledonian1 said:

Agree with the first bit (goalkeeping coaches should hang their heads...nothing of great note has come through in nearly 20 years....and little prospect of anyone emerging soon I suspect)

Don't agree with second part...MLS is a far higher standard than SPFL

What an odd and ridiculous comparison. Are you meaning Forfar and Spartans? Kelty and Inverness? Falkirk and Airdrie? Celtic and Aberdeen? The quality of the SPFL obviously varies hugely throughout the four leagues.

Surely a much more apt comparison would be the MLS and the Scottish Premiership?

[Butters Scotch]

1 minute ago, Londonwell said:

Well this has turned into a tedious dialogue, hasn't it? You're now happy about something that infuriated you a few posts ago. We haven't produced the players in volume to do what you want, it's as simple as that. Anyway, let's just leave it there and agree to disagree. 

Re. The squad just announced still obviously has glaring issues but from a fresh approach aspect it's probably about as good as could be expected. Seems likely we'll move to a back 4 for these games which will allow the wingers in the squad some more game time. Interested to see how they fare. I think the Poland game in particular is quite a big one for Clarke. Another turgid affair and negative result will only serve to increase the pressure on him. 

Its tedious mainly because you are trying put words in my mouth with each of your posts including this one and twist what is actually being said to fit your argument.

We have produced plenty of talented players in the past that didn't start for Scotland until well into their 20s. There's been a lack of a long term approach with the national team in my eyes but it does look like that is beginning to change somewhat under Clarke

 

[RandomGuy.]

35 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Looking forward to this sub forum when it's still 3-5-1-1 and Doak, Gauld and Conway get about 45 minutes between them over the two games.

Gunn

Ralston - McTominay - Porteous - McKenna - Robertson

McGinn - Gilmour - Christie - Morgan

Dykes

[LiviLion]

Just now, RandomGuy. said:

Gunn

Ralston - McTominay - Porteous - McKenna - Robertson

McGinn - Gilmour - Christie - Morgan

Dykes

63'
OFF: Lewis Morgan, Scott McTominay
ON: James Forrest, John Souttar

79'
OFF: Lyndon Dykes, Billy Gilmour
ON: Che Adams, Kenny McLean

90+1'
OFF: Ryan Christie
ON: Ryan Gauld

[Gordopolis]

11 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Yes there is. Its that Wales are a small nation with a smaller talent pool than we have and they need to do it with anyone remotely competent.

It doesnt follow that they then necessarily develop as you'd hope. For every Gareth Bale there is a Ben Woodburn.

That's quite a ratio!

[stressball]

The absolute seethe amongst Rangers fans that Barron didn’t get called up is amusing.

Shame Lewis Ferguson isn’t fit yet, but the squad seems about right.

[Skyline Drifter]

5 hours ago, Butters Scotch said:

There's not a big difference in population and talent pool between the two and they've been out performing us for decades now barring the last year but that could quite easily flip once again. Maybe they are onto something with their youth policy? 

 

3 hours ago, JS_FFC said:

That is a major stretch.

They out performed us from around 2015 through to the end of the Qatar World Cup.

Prior to that there was an 18 year period of neither country making a major tournament, but we were consistently much closer than they were. Even the time they beat us home and away we still finished above them.

 

1 hour ago, Butters Scotch said:

Very dismissive to write off Wales as basically a two man team considering they got to the later stages of tournament football beating some big teams along the way which is an amazing achievement. There squad had a sprinkling of good players in each position with many of them starting their international careers at a young age.

This notion that Wales are a fine example of success by blooding teenagers at full level early is nonsense. As @JS_FFC says, they had an 8 year spell or so of being a competent national side basically riding the back of having one of the best players in the world in their ranks who virtually dragged them up several levels. He was ably assisted by Aaron Ramsay of course, a very good international level player himself, and a smattering of Premiership standard others such as Ashley Williams (debut just before his 24th birthday), Ben Davies (debut at 19) and Joe Allen (debut at 19). Thereafter by and large they were a team of jobbers in the mold of Liam Cooper, Kenny McLean, etc.

It's not like we haven't shown willing to give youngsters debuts when the talent and squad depth called for it. See Gilmour, Doak, etc.

 

1 hour ago, Les Cabbage said:

That’s the weakest squad in a long time.

Hamstrung with injuries/retirements to an extent, we have a just about passable XI with 0 off the bench.

Not sure I’ve seen anything from Gauld to suggest he warrants a call up in all seriousness, a couple of goals in a league Chris Mueller excelled in doesn’t give me much hope.

Would have liked to have seen Miller/Watson in there instead.

A first XI of;

                           Gunn

Johnston Porteous Hanley Robertson

           Gilmour McGinn McTominay

Doak/Forrest     Adams            Christie

Is where I would go, but there’s not a single player on the bench I have any confidence that should be knocking on the door to start, obviously Ferguson/Tierney come in when fit and we’ve lost McGregor but we’re certainly a lot weaker than we’ve been.

I suspect given that neither Hanley nor Porteous is currently a club level starter that McKenna may start at centre back. I'd imagine Ralston will be preferred to Johnston too. I suspect Christie will start deeper than that and we'll either play two up with Dykes and Adams both playing or there's a wide spot to be claimed somewhere. Not convinced Doak or Forrest will necessarily get it.

1 hour ago, Dunning1874 said:

So Robby McCrorie, Johnston, Souttar, Gauld, Doak and Dykes in; Kelly, Ross McCrorie, Cooper, Hendry, Tierney, McGregor, Jack and Armstrong out.

We obviously knew about McGregor and Tierney will be back when fit.

Don't think Cooper and Armstrong are necessarily gone for good but no way they could be picked for this squad with both being clubless. At 32 they might genuinely be done though, and with how many much of a muchness centre backs we have Cooper is an obvious candidate to phase out. Jack is in the same clubless 32 year old boat but it feels much less likely to ever see him back in, as you'd expect the other two to find clubs at a higher level.

You're swapping third choice goalkeepers for one getting more game time and the same with fourth choice right backs - none of Johnston/McCrorie/Ralston are making it when Hickey and Patterson are fit, but at least Johnston has potential to possibly go on and become a regular in future when that's never going to happen with McCrorie and Ralston.

Doak would have been at the Euros instead of Morgan if fit and Dykes would obviously have been there as well. With the number of midfielders who were deservedly ahead of him dropping out it's fair enough giving Gauld a chance now. Miller and/or Watson could be coming in now but it's not a wild shout to have Gauld ahead of them just now, and there's a fair argument that Morgan or Forrest could be the one to make way instead of Gauld if you were wanting to include one of them.

Hendry is the interesting one. The most obvious answer is that he's injured, but if not is he the centre back being culled for a move to a back four, as reward for playing in a league that's even more of a joke than the level Gauld and Morgan are at? Most likely the former though considering Souttar didn't make the Euros.

Hendry's injured I think. Surprised Forrest has retained his spot in any sort of refresh given that when he did come in for the Euros he didn't see any action and Morgan was clearly preferred.

I'd be surprised if Cooper isn't gone for good but we'll see. Armstrong will surely latch on somewhere at decent level shortly and return to the squad. Interesting that Clark is in, Gordon isn't despite the latter currently being Hearts No 1. I guess he's not held it long enough to change anything.

[Skyline Drifter]

14 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

That's quite a ratio!

Ha ha. Fair point, you know what I meant though. It's easy to look at players like Bale and shout about blooding players early. Bale was the best British player in the last half century though probably (I think he was better than Rooney personally). There's no magic wand to creating another Gareth Bale.

[RandomGuy.]

I think the thing with Lennon Miller is he's clearly good enough to play for Scotland, now and in the future, and is also performing.

Literally the only reason you leave him out is because of his age.

I'd happily have him ahead of the likes of Barron in the pecking order too, and would've rather seen him in this squad than Gauld.

[craigkillie]

Jack Hendry missed his club's first game of the season at the weekend through injury btw.

[KnightswoodBear]

29 minutes ago, stressball said:

The absolute seethe amongst Rangers fans that Barron didn’t get called up is amusing.

Shame Lewis Ferguson isn’t fit yet, but the squad seems about right.

I've not seen one person mention it.

[craigkillie]

14 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I think the thing with Lennon Miller is he's clearly good enough to play for Scotland, now and in the future, and is also performing.

Literally the only reason you leave him out is because of his age.

I don't see how you can say he is "clearly good enough to play for Scotland" on the basis of some very good performances for Motherwell. The standard is not comparable.

In reality, the only reason he would ever be called up to the squad is because of his age. If he was 26 then there's no chance there would even be a consideration of calling him up. The main reason for it wouldn't be to improve the squad right now, but to get him ready for it in the future.

[ahemps]

A bit concerning at the lack of game time for a few of these players. 

Hanley and Porteous not starting now for there clubs. Does that make Souttar and McKenna the centre 2 of a back 4?

People wanting to start with Dykes who is soon to be a league 1 player. I like the guy and his commitment but surely Conway needs to get more time than him from now on?

Got to try Johnston at right back, he may not turn out to be great but we know Ralston is very limited.

Clarke will try to be consistent and make gradual changes but every 2yrs after tournament football most teams move a few players. Our opponents will also be changing personnel so no reason not to do this and make some longer term changes and stick with them for a bit.