General Dread Posted October 14 Author Share Posted October 14 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Stag Nation said: I read research years ago that said a high proportion of readers (45% from memory) don't even try to read white text on black, or light on dark. That was in printed media, but I doubt if it's much different on screen. Think the growth of websites/devices using things like dark mode/night mode will have changed that fairly substantially now - certainly when it comes to digital devices. Seen a survey fairly recently that suggested as many as 80% of people used dark mode on phones/tablets etc. When it comes to our programmes, I think there’s maybe 3 of 16 pages that have white text on a black background (usually the main feature story) while the remaining text pages use black on white. Edited October 14 by General Dread 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Jones Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 1 hour ago, General Dread said: Think the growth of websites/devices using things like dark mode/night mode will have changed that fairly substantially now - certainly when it comes to digital devices. Seen a survey fairly recently that suggested as many as 80% of people used dark mode on phones/tablets etc. When it comes to our programmes, I think there’s maybe 3 of 16 pages that have white text on a black background (usually the main feature story) while the remaining text pages use black on white. £3 for a 16 page programme? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Dread Posted October 14 Author Share Posted October 14 2 minutes ago, Casey Jones said: £3 for a 16 page programme? Correct. We asked our supporters what price they thought would be fair and £3 was what was agreed. £2 (without any additional advertising/sponsorship) would have meant running at a loss for every single issue. If we can get advertisers/sponsors to subsidise part of the cost of printing, we'll be able to reduce the price. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perthmo Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 3 hours ago, General Dread said: Cheers for the feedback. It’s the first negative I’ve had on them so appreciate it. In terms of substance, manager column, player interview over a couple of pages, opposition preview, squad lists, a quiz, fixtures and results and player sponsor info is about all there’s room for in there without increasing page numbers (and therefore cost). We’re also trying to get more sponsors/advertisers on board to reduce the cost to fans but don’t want to simply fill it with page after page of adverts so there’s a balance to be found. With the colours, the white on black was suggested by our printing company. My background is in digital so I tend to defer to them when it comes to the actual printing and what helps make things stand out. Out of curiosity, can I ask which game it was so I can discuss with our printers any changes they think could/should be made. Just my opinions. v Hill of Beath, September 4 General comments: £3 for a programme at this level is too much. I would say one-quarter of admission price is about right. £3 for a 16 page programme at any level is too much Specifics Colour choice / Font Size would fail every test of accessibility for those with less than perfect vision Not immediately apparent from the front cover who the home team are, let alone the away team. Club name should be prominent. 4 pages out of 16 given over to Dunipace Player Sponsors which I assume are static from game to game. Red print on black unreadable, blue on yellow little better. Use of graphics for sponsors varies from the very clear to the much too small to be readable. Player names missing from all these pages so no idea who is sponsored and who isn't. Full page advert for next home game in a giant font size is a bit OTT. Likewise full page advert asking for programme advertisers. Kai Wilson feature is really a one-page feature spread over two In reality programme only has 8 pages of content, including a full page fixture list Team line-ups page, white print on black - many people like to note team changes etc in their programme. Not possible on a black background. No mention of referee / assistants Would be good to see some historical features given the rich heritage of Dunipace FC. Also some in-depth coverage of the youth / community set up at Dunipace. Good points - Manager's Notes, Quiz, Westfield Stand Update is an interesting feature. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Dread Posted October 14 Author Share Posted October 14 (edited) 46 minutes ago, perthmo said: Just my opinions. v Hill of Beath, September 4 General comments: £3 for a programme at this level is too much. I would say one-quarter of admission price is about right. £3 for a 16 page programme at any level is too much Specifics Colour choice / Font Size would fail every test of accessibility for those with less than perfect vision Not immediately apparent from the front cover who the home team are, let alone the away team. Club name should be prominent. 4 pages out of 16 given over to Dunipace Player Sponsors which I assume are static from game to game. Red print on black unreadable, blue on yellow little better. Use of graphics for sponsors varies from the very clear to the much too small to be readable. Player names missing from all these pages so no idea who is sponsored and who isn't. Full page advert for next home game in a giant font size is a bit OTT. Likewise full page advert asking for programme advertisers. Kai Wilson feature is really a one-page feature spread over two In reality programme only has 8 pages of content, including a full page fixture list Team line-ups page, white print on black - many people like to note team changes etc in their programme. Not possible on a black background. No mention of referee / assistants Would be good to see some historical features given the rich heritage of Dunipace FC. Also some in-depth coverage of the youth / community set up at Dunipace. Good points - Manager's Notes, Quiz, Westfield Stand Update is an interesting feature. Font size was discussed with printer who felt it was more than adequate. From the front cover, both clubs' badges are there (with a second Dunipace badge prominently featured further down the page) as well as a Dunipace player in Dunipace kit right in the middle, it also has 'Opposition Preview: Hill of Beath Hawthorn' on there just to further confirm who the opposition are. In terms of people wanting to note team changes etc, it wasn't something our regulars were particularly fussed about so opted against doing it - particularly when not all clubs provide a fully accurate list. Referees/Assistants details weren't available when we went to print so couldn't include them. They have been included in other issues where available. In terms of historical features, those will come as the season progresses, we've published five of a minimum 15 this season so there will be more in-depth historical stuff. We've had an update on the stand, updates on our women's team and also our U20s in that space so far and there'll be various other topics used to fill that space including: The history of the 'original' Dunipace who played in the early editions of the Scottish Cup as a senior club prior to our formation in 1888. I've also got something planned about the redevelopment of Westfield in the coming months and something about when Hibs came to open our floodlights in the 1970s. I'm also trying to sort an interview out with Ian - our long-standing former player, manager, secretary and everything else about his memories from being involved with the club for well over 60 years and, maybe, something about Ronnie MacKinnon but wanted to get the more contemporary stuff out the way first (U20s, women, stand update) as it can help get more people to their games and doing it early in the season rather than at the end can help them get a sustained bump in gates/attention. I'm also due to sit down with some of the coaches of our youth sides in a few weeks and try shine a wee spotlight on them and their team's successes. The 'full-page fixture list' also includes the league table, our top scorers, and that day's other fixtures in the league so to call it a 'full-page fixture list' is somewhat disingenuous. WRT to the player sponsor pages not having names on them. Our fans know who the players are - and ultimately the programme is primarily aimed at the home support - so felt adding additional text either meant shrinking things down or using even more pages. The graphics are only as good as the ones supplied to us by the sponsors. If the want their logo shown rather than their name printed, I can only work with what's available to me. If a company has a low-quality logo but insist they want that, then that's what they get. Edited October 14 by General Dread 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyro Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 46 minutes ago, General Dread said: From the front cover, both clubs' badges are there (with a second Dunipace badge prominently featured further down the page) as well as a Dunipace player in Dunipace kit right in the middle, it also has 'Opposition Preview: Hill of Beath Hawthorn' on there just to further confirm who the opposition are. Too much emphasis on the graphics trying to make it look cool rather than informative and user friendly. 48 minutes ago, General Dread said: In terms of people wanting to note team changes etc, it wasn't something our regulars were particularly fussed about so opted against doing it - particularly when not all clubs provide a fully accurate list. Really?! I have never seen a clubs programme that didn't show the teams on a white background. The printers must love that too! 50 minutes ago, General Dread said: WRT to the player sponsor pages not having names on them. Our fans know who the players are - and ultimately the programme is primarily aimed at the home support - so felt adding additional text either meant shrinking things down or using even more pages. The graphics are only as good as the ones supplied to us by the sponsors. If the want their logo shown rather than their name printed, I can only work with what's available to me. If a company has a low-quality logo but insist they want that, then that's what they get. More pictures and graphics over actual information! I see a pattern emerging... As for the silly goal graphics on social media, it's not something I think the majority of people care for. Why not just tell us who scored and who they're sponsored by if need be? Seems a complete waste of energy just because "Barca do it". The vast majority of people who watch football are actually literate and would much prefer to read an informative programme over sometime that looks like a graphic designers 1st year uni portfolio. No wonder they need to be £3 each rather than the usual £2 everyone else does them of, the printer must have a nightmare getting them to look decent 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guinness Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 IF your just wanting the final scores just buy the pink news 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Dread Posted October 14 Author Share Posted October 14 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Spyro said: Too much emphasis on the graphics trying to make it look cool rather than informative and user friendly. Really?! I have never seen a clubs programme that didn't show the teams on a white background. The printers must love that too! More pictures and graphics over actual information! I see a pattern emerging... As for the silly goal graphics on social media, it's not something I think the majority of people care for. Why not just tell us who scored and who they're sponsored by if need be? Seems a complete waste of energy just because "Barca do it". The vast majority of people who watch football are actually literate and would much prefer to read an informative programme over sometime that looks like a graphic designers 1st year uni portfolio. No wonder they need to be £3 each rather than the usual £2 everyone else does them of, the printer must have a nightmare getting them to look decent No, more that the graphics are easier to spot at a glance rather than wasting space writing the team names when the badges are there. I've seen loads of programmes where team lists aren't on a white background. Where are there 'more pictures and graphics over 'actual information'? The player sponsors pay for their logo to be shown so we use their logo under the picture of the player they sponsor. Who are you quoting there saying because 'Barca do it'? I've not suggested once that I do it 'because Barca do it'. I do the gifs for some of them because the players asked if they could do it. others have a simple image with their photo, sponsor and shirt number that day It's something that virtually every club in the league does. Which bits don't you think are informative? The manager notes? Player interview? opposition preview? club update? the fixtures, results, table and goalscorers or the squad lists? You must know something our printer doesn't. They print the finished programme as sent to them as a pdf with no alterations. Here's the Villa team lines in their matchday programme on a navy blue background. Hope folk managed to read it ok Edited October 14 by General Dread 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Jones Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 2 hours ago, perthmo said: Just my opinions. v Hill of Beath, September 4 General comments: £3 for a programme at this level is too much. I would say one-quarter of admission price is about right. £3 for a 16 page programme at any level is too much Specifics Colour choice / Font Size would fail every test of accessibility for those with less than perfect vision Not immediately apparent from the front cover who the home team are, let alone the away team. Club name should be prominent. 4 pages out of 16 given over to Dunipace Player Sponsors which I assume are static from game to game. Red print on black unreadable, blue on yellow little better. Use of graphics for sponsors varies from the very clear to the much too small to be readable. Player names missing from all these pages so no idea who is sponsored and who isn't. Full page advert for next home game in a giant font size is a bit OTT. Likewise full page advert asking for programme advertisers. Kai Wilson feature is really a one-page feature spread over two In reality programme only has 8 pages of content, including a full page fixture list Team line-ups page, white print on black - many people like to note team changes etc in their programme. Not possible on a black background. No mention of referee / assistants Would be good to see some historical features given the rich heritage of Dunipace FC. Also some in-depth coverage of the youth / community set up at Dunipace. Good points - Manager's Notes, Quiz, Westfield Stand Update is an interesting feature. Thank you! I was going to follow up, but all my points so far in this topic have been negative against the OP! £3 for a 16 page programme is ridiculous! Wonder what the average sale is on a normal week. Most programmes I see at £2 for, probably, a 24 page write up, which is acceptable to most who buy one. Not the fans fault if a sponsor can't be found. Need to do more communication on that part. Lasts season, HoB has a match on a Saturday and a midweek match.£2 charged for the normal programme and as the guy didn't have time, an abridged programme was produced (think it was 12 pages) midweek but the guy just charged £1 for his overheads. Haddington's price is £2 for 24 page and recently, the guy didn't have much time. Was going to charge £1 for a 16 page programme. It actually ran to 20 page, but as this was still smaller than a normal programme, the £1 charge still applied. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Dread Posted October 14 Author Share Posted October 14 3 minutes ago, Casey Jones said: Thank you! I was going to follow up, but all my points so far in this topic have been negative against the OP! £3 for a 16 page programme is ridiculous! Wonder what the average sale is on a normal week. Most programmes I see at £2 for, probably, a 24 page write up, which is acceptable to most who buy one. Not the fans fault if a sponsor can't be found. Need to do more communication on that part. Lasts season, HoB has a match on a Saturday and a midweek match.£2 charged for the normal programme and as the guy didn't have time, an abridged programme was produced (think it was 12 pages) midweek but the guy just charged £1 for his overheads. Haddington's price is £2 for 24 page and recently, the guy didn't have much time. Was going to charge £1 for a 16 page programme. It actually ran to 20 page, but as this was still smaller than a normal programme, the £1 charge still applied. Print 30 at a cost of £62. Usually sell 20-25, Player on cover gets a freebie (even I buy mines) and any spares are sold at reduced price if anyone missed them at the previous game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Jones Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 1 hour ago, Spyro said: Too much emphasis on the graphics trying to make it look cool rather than informative and user friendly. Really?! I have never seen a clubs programme that didn't show the teams on a white background. The printers must love that too! More pictures and graphics over actual information! I see a pattern emerging... As for the silly goal graphics on social media, it's not something I think the majority of people care for. Why not just tell us who scored and who they're sponsored by if need be? Seems a complete waste of energy just because "Barca do it". The vast majority of people who watch football are actually literate and would much prefer to read an informative programme over sometime that looks like a graphic designers 1st year uni portfolio. No wonder they need to be £3 each rather than the usual £2 everyone else does them of, the printer must have a nightmare getting them to look decent Thank you (again). In all honesty, these days, graphics discussed here (whether produced on a programme/X) are frankly absurd. Clubs just wanting to come up with "bigger and better' designs than others. F*ck right up yae!!! Most guys who produce programmes and do twitter/X are working guys, who do the club updates on their own time. Bet you most folk who go to EoS/LL matches are happy to see who scored, what the score is etc on twitter and for the programme, just get factual info on player updates/interviews; see the league table see prev match photos, see info on visitors without any 'p!shfull glamorous graphics'. On twitter, those who announce goooaaalll to inform you of an update or a flashing graphic with the word 'goal' appearing/disappearing 5 or 6 times need to get off their pedestal! Utter p!sh behaviour! On match days, just give fans the info they need. Grassroots football is trying to become an artwork for some people. Frankly, who needs/wants it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Dread Posted October 14 Author Share Posted October 14 2 minutes ago, Casey Jones said: Thank you (again). In all honesty, these days, graphics discussed here (whether produced on a programme/X) are frankly absurd. Clubs just wanting to come up with "bigger and better' designs than others. F*ck right up yae!!! Most guys who produce programmes and do twitter/X are working guys, who do the club updates on their own time. Bet you most folk who go to EoS/LL matches are happy to see who scored, what the score is etc on twitter and for the programme, just get factual info on player updates/interviews; see the league table see prev match photos, see info on visitors without any 'p!shfull glamorous graphics'. On twitter, those who announce goooaaalll to inform you of an update or a flashing graphic with the word 'goal' appearing/disappearing 5 or 6 times need to get off their pedestal! Utter p!sh behaviour! On match days, just give fans the info they need. Grassroots football is trying to become an artwork for some people. Frankly, who needs/wants it Who wants to come up with 'bigger and better designs than others'? I'll take that bet. Certainly not trying to make it an 'artwork' but definitely trying to do things that might catch the eye a little and get some more people coming through the gates or engaging with the club's social media etc. It's fairly well established that using images and video can make a real difference when it comes to engagement on social media - facebook posts with images get around 50% more engagement than text alone and it can have an even bigger impact on getting on likes to website/youtube etc. The brain also processes images far quicker than it does text so using images can help get the information across to the reader quicker than a simple text post would. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crow Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 5 minutes ago, General Dread said: Who wants to come up with 'bigger and better designs than others'? I'll take that bet. Certainly not trying to make it an 'artwork' but definitely trying to do things that might catch the eye a little and get some more people coming through the gates or engaging with the club's social media etc. It's fairly well established that using images and video can make a real difference when it comes to engagement on social media - facebook posts with images get around 50% more engagement than text alone and it can have an even bigger impact on getting on likes to website/youtube etc. The brain also processes images far quicker than it does text so using images can help get the information across to the reader quicker than a simple text post would. ‘Bigger and better’ is exactly what it is . They don't make a blind bit of difference to non league club attendances. I’d do some overtime at work or spend some more time with your loved ones instead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamthebam Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 1 hour ago, guinness said: IF your just wanting the final scores just buy the pink news missed it, I was in the pub. Just have to get page 299 of Ceefax on... bugger, the rugby scores have come up first.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Dread Posted October 14 Author Share Posted October 14 1 minute ago, Crow said: ‘Bigger and better’ is exactly what it is . They don't make a blind bit of difference to non league club attendances. I’d do some overtime at work or spend some more time with your loved ones instead. Far from it. I'd definitely disagree that it doesn't make a difference. We've got people who've started to come to games recently who say they only did so to begin with because they'd seen the videos and graphics we'd been sharing on socials having not really been aware we existed prior. I mean, we've hardly gone to huge gates but we've had a sizeable increase over the last few years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crow Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 3 hours ago, General Dread said: Far from it. I'd definitely disagree that it doesn't make a difference. We've got people who've started to come to games recently who say they only did so to begin with because they'd seen the videos and graphics we'd been sharing on socials having not really been aware we existed prior. I mean, we've hardly gone to huge gates but we've had a sizeable increase over the last few years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 (edited) From an outsider to your politics in the East to be fair to Dunipace having seen their crowds against Irvine Meadow back in Junior days in Scottish Junior Cup tie and then again last season in the Scottish Cup they have certainly increased their crowds significantly and had a very decent number of youngsters who were attending a game a decent distance away from home too. If graphics and updated social media didnt make a difference to attendances why do all professional clubs in this country have people paid to do these jobs that we didnt have 20 years ago? Having played a number of East teams already this season the website is great, simple and easy to use - I am slightly old fashioned and prefer the plain style in East to the colourful West website although West has more stats, goalscorers etc too. However I do agree that maybe once handwritten results are up on Twitter you could then have someone else do it in nice graphics & show updated league tables too. I totally understand a volunteer with 3 young daughters so you just want the correct results up and then drive home - I get that myself as anytime I have been at a game with my daughter I didnt have time to update scores on social media and left that to someone else. Perhaps with 4 league tables it is hard to do although can copy West in how they split each set of results & table up from every division. Edited October 15 by Shannon 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realmadrid Posted Wednesday at 14:44 Share Posted Wednesday at 14:44 On 13/10/2024 at 20:15, searchers1963 said: Some will argue their resistance to the junior cup needs looked at. Why, now we have a pyramid there is no need for the Junior cup. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzler Posted Wednesday at 15:43 Share Posted Wednesday at 15:43 guy on twitter does a power of good work for the fife teams, retweets the goals, results, any pre match line ups as well as the occasional blog. Understand thats just for fife teams but certainly decent off his own back 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Dread Posted Wednesday at 15:57 Author Share Posted Wednesday at 15:57 1 hour ago, realmadrid said: Why, now we have a pyramid there is no need for the Junior cup. I’m kinda ambivalent to the JC but in the absence of a national non-league trophy, it fills a certain gap. Would much prefer there was one similar to the FA Trophy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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