Swarley Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 So England lost all 200 wickets! I think I heard this us only the third Aussie team to whitewash England? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Pomnishambles. Decent article from the South African press. http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2014-01-05-pomnishambles-englands-ashes-embarrassment/#.Usp1unggGc0 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 He's brilliant. I think it was a KP dismissal in the first Sydney innings: "That was so wide I wouldn't have reached it with my mother's broom" He is completely correct of course. The tour has been utterly shambolic and one of the worst performances by any of the major test playing nations in recent history. England's top order have completely shat it facing Mitchell Johnson, and been unable to release themselves from the shackles of Harris and Siddle's precise and economic bowling. Even Nathan Lyon's posed them problems. As for England, they need root and branch reform of the selection process. What the f**k was the point of Panesar? Why is KP untouchable despite throwing away his wicket virtually every test? Why are the top order shitting their pants against genuine pace? Cook will have to continue as Captain, purely because none of the others would improve upon him. All in all, a total mess. They need to take a look at central contracts and how that works too. The tour started badly. In fact the whole things started with the last test in England. That was the time when Tremlett should have been looked at in test match conditions. It would have shown then that he was spent and he wouldnt have been taken. WTF have they done to Finn? A guy with a similar wicket haul and strike rate to Harris but he is being punted from the side because of economy?? Its test cricket not fucking 20/20 He is expensive, he will always be expensive, but he will always get wickets. Trott is mentally ill, Swann retires halfway through, Panesar is still spangled. Cook is struggling with captaincy, whether this is because he cant control the old pros or what, I dont know. But whatever is happening its clearly scrambling his head for his batting. Whats he worth more to England as? A captain or a batsmen? Anyway, there will be changes, they would have happened during this summer I,m sure but this accelarates things. I dont think I have ever seen a team crumble away in thatt fashion before like England just have. Incredible. It genuinely isnt a particularly good Australian side. England actually had them struggling in most of the matches, had got through their top order and then hit the spangle button which is symptomatic of the way they played. It was generally awful I thoroughly enjoyed the way the Aussies bowled though, it was absolutely brilliant. Johnson was used well and cleaned up Englands tail with ease. Harris was just fantastic all summer in England and in this series he has been the rock of the bowling attack. Not only a true wicket taking danger, but he totally stifled Englands batsmen and with Siddle too they were awesome. Lyon even looked like a decent player thanks to the job being done by the rest of them (harsh). Looking forward to seeing how the Aussies do in SA. Should be decent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papad Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Looking forward to seeing how the Aussies do in SA. Should be decent. Should be good. I think the Aussies will give a good account of themselves. I'm also pleased for Clarke - he took some amount of stick when he became captain, but he's looking good now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Should be good. I think the Aussies will give a good account of themselves. I'm also pleased for Clarke - he took some amount of stick when he became captain, but he's looking good now. Will be interesting to see how the Saffers get on with the massive hole that Kallis' retirement leaves. Will they try and fill it with another all rounder or do they just try and get a batsman in? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 They need to take a look at central contracts and how that works too. The tour started badly. In fact the whole things started with the last test in England. That was the time when Tremlett should have been looked at in test match conditions. It would have shown then that he was spent and he wouldnt have been taken. WTF have they done to Finn? A guy with a similar wicket haul and strike rate to Harris but he is being punted from the side because of economy?? Its test cricket not fucking 20/20 He is expensive, he will always be expensive, but he will always get wickets. Trott is mentally ill, Swann retires halfway through, Panesar is still spangled. Cook is struggling with captaincy, whether this is because he cant control the old pros or what, I dont know. But whatever is happening its clearly scrambling his head for his batting. Whats he worth more to England as? A captain or a batsmen? Anyway, there will be changes, they would have happened during this summer I,m sure but this accelarates things. I dont think I have ever seen a team crumble away in thatt fashion before like England just have. Incredible. It genuinely isnt a particularly good Australian side. England actually had them struggling in most of the matches, had got through their top order and then hit the spangle button which is symptomatic of the way they played. It was generally awful I thoroughly enjoyed the way the Aussies bowled though, it was absolutely brilliant. Johnson was used well and cleaned up Englands tail with ease. Harris was just fantastic all summer in England and in this series he has been the rock of the bowling attack. Not only a true wicket taking danger, but he totally stifled Englands batsmen and with Siddle too they were awesome. Lyon even looked like a decent player thanks to the job being done by the rest of them (harsh). Looking forward to seeing how the Aussies do in SA. Should be decent. You do wonder what's at play with the selectors, and certain players faces don't seem to fit for whatever reason. Finn's been ruined, and needs time off. I can only assume Onions was found hanging out of the back of Ashley Giles's wife or something. Completely overlooked without really doing anything wrong that i can recall. Especially ridiculous when ineffective shite like Bresnan goes on tour. Regards the captaincy, Cook is obviously struggling with the responsibility of both that and batting, but i can't see any other worthwhile candidate. According to the Beeb site, Bell isn't considered "leadership material" and Broad is unlikely as a batting, rather than a bowling captain is preferred. TBH the fact that he's an immature hothead should rule him out anyway. Prior's a shout if he gets another chance and sorts himself out. If there is a dressing room issue, I'd probably put money on Pietersen being involved. He may well be England's potentially most destructive batsman, but he's a selfish, backstabbing w****r and should be fucked out of the side if he's causing problems within the team. Having said all that, England's next match ups are piss easy home contests against Sri Lankan and Indian sides they'll probably destroy. Either a good chance to try to mix things up a bit, or gloss over the current set-up's problems with easy wins against shite travelling test teams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jupiter Jazz Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The Sky pundits other than Bob "pure raging" Willis dont seem keen for many changes, if any. Captain and coach are remaining in place. So nobody it appears is accountable for this utter stramash and lets not forget England in the main are eye gouging to watch. So wholesale changes for me, a new captain for a start. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 You do wonder what's at play with the selectors, and certain players faces don't seem to fit for whatever reason. Finn's been ruined, and needs time off. I can only assume Onions was found hanging out of the back of Ashley Giles's wife or something. Completely overlooked without really doing anything wrong that i can recall. Especially ridiculous when ineffective shite like Bresnan goes on tour. Regards the captaincy, Cook is obviously struggling with the responsibility of both that and batting, but i can't see any other worthwhile candidate. According to the Beeb site, Bell isn't considered "leadership material" and Broad is unlikely as a batting, rather than a bowling captain is preferred. TBH the fact that he's an immature hothead should rule him out anyway. Prior's a shout if he gets another chance and sorts himself out. If there is a dressing room issue, I'd probably put money on Pietersen being involved. He may well be England's potentially most destructive batsman, but he's a selfish, backstabbing w****r and should be fucked out of the side if he's causing problems within the team. Having said all that, England's next match ups are piss easy home contests against Sri Lankan and Indian sides they'll probably destroy. Either a good chance to try to mix things up a bit, or gloss over the current set-up's problems with easy wins against shite travelling test teams. The central contract thing has worked well at times especially during the good period but it might also be counterproductive now.Some players clearly become teachers pet and as Willis mentioned during the picking over the entrails that too many pace bowlers seem to be encouraged to go for line and length and bowl dry rather than use their raw pace as a weapon. Finn being a huge case in point, England never truly trusted him because he averages about four an over in spite of taking wickets regulalry. Stokes has taken wickets too but you wonder how long they will put up with him going at around the same run rate per over as Finn? Something isnt right there, this is test cricket and you win games by getting 20 wickets. The tour disintegrated right from the start. Bresnan was asked along after a bad injury yet they left one of the top performers in county cricket out the squad (Onions). They took Tremlett and Finn and played Tremlett although they then realised he was 10mph slower than he was before his injuries. Finn was ruined last summer after the first test when he did have a bad game but they only gave him ten overs in the second innings. If he was as bad in the nets as some were saying then surely let him go away play some cricket and work on his game again. He is a genuinely quick bowler, he is young and he can come back from this. They pissed around with his run up too. Who is coaching him in the England set up and why have they damaged his confidence so badly?Its partly down to him though, he needs to come back from this under his own steam. They did this to Jimmy Anderson and Darren Gough as well until bothguys just said f**k off and went back to their old actions. I reckon that the likes of Pietersen, Bell and Cook will be able to bounce back. Prior too lets not forget Haddin was dropped for much the same reasons as Prior was and roared back. Prior is a better player than Haddin and can come back from this hopefully. The captaincy hasnt worked brilliantly well in these series for Cook although the Aussies worked out whereto bowl to him too. They gave him virtually no width and were disciplined. Bell was out of nick a bit and Pietersen is Pietersen. Waht do they do with the likes of Root though?Bung him in to open with an out of sorts Cook? I think this was the main problem really, the openers are not reliable, Carberry got starts but a bit like Compton he straitjacketed himself too much. What do you do with him? He wasnt atrocious but you get the feeling he was holding back. In England, Anderson will be effective again,its different conditions and a ball that he can get to swing. He has never been great with the Kookaburra ball, Stokes is going to be good to have in the side too as long as he keeps this up. There is no obvious spinner to pick though and unless they are a phenomenom like Warne then they tend to come to test cricket a bit later in the career generally. I think there was a huge amount of mental disintegration in this series from England too, as you say, in another series against different sides and under less of the sptlight then this wont be quite such a huge issue. But in the context of the series theres no doubt that this was the big thing allied to form loss from a few of the batsmen. The bowlers also failed to choke the Aussie tail in spite of having then five down for not a lot fairly regularly. I think that too can wear down sides mentally, Haddins efforts were superb in that respect and that allied to Johnso tering the England tail apart in the "live" matches won thm the ashes. The final two games were jsut a salt in the wounds exercise. Its worth remembering how shit England tend to be away from home too. India aside they have toiled badly. Against Pakistan they were drubbed in that series and if it too had been a five match job I'm certain theyd have lost it in a similar fashion to this effort. They will certainly bounce back from this as they still have the core of a decent test side, but it will be interesting to see who does come in. I dont see too many of the established guys going unless they choose to go either. With Stokes appearing I think Bresnans career at test level could be over too unless the management decide they need Stokes to be bowling line and length and "drier" which would be a shame as he is quite swift and can take wickets. Time will tell. I'd be gutted if Finn doesnt come back into the side again, I think he is/was good. Genuine pace and genuinely hostility isnt that easy to find. If he gives some no balls away by clipping the wickets then so fucking what? Let him deal with it FFS. They also need to decide where Root is batting and give him a series there and see how he does. He looks equipped to play test cricket and he has one serious score to his name, give him a chance knowing where he's batting to see how he fares. And above all else, I hope we never see dead wickets like the ones produced in England last summer ever again. That was shite. Swann is away, we dont need to be producing spinners pitches now. Give us pace and bounce. Its better to watch too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Vaughan wrote a decent piece on how to manage "difficult" players. Pitersenis undoubtably a giant ego and a big head. Theres nothing particularly wrong or unusual about that and no doubt he rubs some of his team mates up the wrong way too but as Vaughan alluded to it looked very much like he was being made to be a peripheral figure in the side. Bunging him out to the ropes to field and stuff like that. Making him VC a bit like they once did with the likes of Boycott is a method of dealing with that, keep him involved, amke him feel important etc. To drop one of the best players just shouldnt ever happen just because he is a bit of a w**k. Australia managed to incorporate Watson into their set up in spite of him clashing with some of his team mates and indeed, his captain. Good managerment can ease that situation and Pietersen needs to be handled right to get the best of him, hes far too good to be punted, plus he says he wants to be winning the next ashes series, so presumably he means it. Make him VC and let him feed his ego a bit. If there are problems specifically between him and some others then get it dealt with properly. If Australia could do it with their captain and Watson formerly despising one another then so can England. And lets not forget Mitchell Johnson too. Like Finn he was punted out the picture but he sorted it and came back. Its unlikely he will be around for the next ashes series but Finn should be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny jacko Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I reckon Cook will still be captain in the next Ashes in 2015 with maybe Broad or Bell as deputy. Despite his talent I'd ditch Pietersen as he's far too selfish with a bat in his hand, shows little or no interest in fielding and may be too intimidating a figure for Cook to skipper. I certainly wouldn't make him vice captain as he'd more than likely try to take over rather than help Cook. I think Anderson's place must be in doubt as well now that his sidekick Swann has retired. Poor Jimmy actually appeared more petulant than Broad during the series which is some doing. For the future, Bairstow is clearly nowhere near test class as a batsman and giving him the wicket keeper's gloves is a joke. Carberry won't get back in the side and apparently Compton was left out as he didn't mix well in the dressing room. Bresnan has probably blown his chances along with Panesar and Rankin was an awful pick for Sydney. Borthwick will get other chances but the spin bowling options are pretty limited. Stokes will be around for along time, although he only got his chance because Trott went home. Root will be back but must be allowed to try and score runs not just occupy the crease. Ballance will get other chances as well. As for Finn. The multitude of coaching staff seem quite happy to criticise him for not being quite right to bowl but he's in the one day squad. Is he not going to get a chance there either ? Sounds like very poor management of him and he should have played at least one of the tests. Australia were worthy winners and England's bottle went from the start due to the aggressive nature of the opposition, press and crowds. A lot of this may have been due to the arrogant stance England took after winning at home despite not playing that well. Their answer to the claim that 3-0 flattered them was just to laugh and repeat the score. Maybe they should have stood back and seen the home series for what it was, a weak opposition who got better the longer the series lasted and a home side who showed too much complacency and relied heavily on Bell's runs. But one thing that hasn't been discussed by the TV/Radio experts is why England's fielding has been so awful. Australia were miles better and missed few chances whilst England were a shambles in the air and on the ground. At times England looked totally disinterested and there was never really a time when an oustanding effort in the field raised the whole side. The seven runs thanks to overthrows in the final test just about summed it all up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I reckon Cook will still be captain in the next Ashes in 2015 with maybe Broad or Bell as deputy. Despite his talent I'd ditch Pietersen as he's far too selfish with a bat in his hand, shows little or no interest in fielding and may be too intimidating a figure for Cook to skipper. I certainly wouldn't make him vice captain as he'd more than likely try to take over rather than help Cook. I think Anderson's place must be in doubt as well now that his sidekick Swann has retired. Poor Jimmy actually appeared more petulant than Broad during the series which is some doing. For the future, Bairstow is clearly nowhere near test class as a batsman and giving him the wicket keeper's gloves is a joke. Carberry won't get back in the side and apparently Compton was left out as he didn't mix well in the dressing room. Bresnan has probably blown his chances along with Panesar and Rankin was an awful pick for Sydney. Borthwick will get other chances but the spin bowling options are pretty limited. Stokes will be around for along time, although he only got his chance because Trott went home. Root will be back but must be allowed to try and score runs not just occupy the crease. Ballance will get other chances as well. As for Finn. The multitude of coaching staff seem quite happy to criticise him for not being quite right to bowl but he's in the one day squad. Is he not going to get a chance there either ? Sounds like very poor management of him and he should have played at least one of the tests. Australia were worthy winners and England's bottle went from the start due to the aggressive nature of the opposition, press and crowds. A lot of this may have been due to the arrogant stance England took after winning at home despite not playing that well. Their answer to the claim that 3-0 flattered them was just to laugh and repeat the score. Maybe they should have stood back and seen the home series for what it was, a weak opposition who got better the longer the series lasted and a home side who showed too much complacency and relied heavily on Bell's runs. But one thing that hasn't been discussed by the TV/Radio experts is why England's fielding has been so awful. Australia were miles better and missed few chances whilst England were a shambles in the air and on the ground. At times England looked totally disinterested and there was never really a time when an oustanding effort in the field raised the whole side. The seven runs thanks to overthrows in the final test just about summed it all up. They have to stick with Cook really, there's not really anyone else crying out for the captaincy. Dropping Pietersen would be a stupid thing to do. I realise he polarises opinion but he is still one of Englands best ever players even if he is a bit of a p***k. That can often come with top sportsmen though and he does need handled properly. He has captained before, he could do the VC job no problem. Its probably not likely to happen but it COULD be done. Anderson will still be the main man next summer barring injury. With a Duke ball and on English wickets he knows how to make it swing, Swann was certainly his mate but it wont make any difference. As for him being grumpy. He's always looked like a grumpy b*****d through his entire career. The team were just mentally shot through. It happened when they played Pakistan in Dubai and if that had been a five match series then they would have lost this 5-0 too as they were all over the place in that one too but as it wasnt an Ashes series then only cricket folk were actually paying it any great attention. When the other lot get a clear upper hand it doesnt take an awful lot to make the other team crumble and fall, particularly in test cricket. Its a much much more mentally challenging sport than most others. The fielding was shit for much the same reason, they were just falling apart at the seams. I'm quite sure the guts of the team will remain, it would be utter stupidity at the moment to be looking to replace anyone from the likes of Anderson, Broad, Bell, Pitersen, Cook etc. They are still top class players. Some failed through the pressure of the situation or through lack of form or for just being arrogant (guess who) and trying to smite the Aussies for the temerity for setting a blatant trap for him in the field. England will be competitive again for the Sri Lankans and the Indians, they have actually been in similar situations in recent times and bounced back reasonably swiftly. The slight hysteria of an ashes series does magnify the situation a lot though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 KP might have given his wicket away a couple of times, but I can't see him being left out any time soon. He still scores too many runs for that to happen, but I agree with what Vaughan was saying that they need to give him a role in the field in which he is more proactive. I think Cook made a lot of mistakes but he looked to be a man alone at times with little support from his team mates. Clarke had folk like Haddin, Smith and others helping him and suggesting field changes and placings but Cook didn't appear to have that sort of support around him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearwithme Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Interesting story here: "Andy Flower may quit as England team director if Kevin Pietersen plays on". http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/07/andy-flower-england-team-director-kevin-pietersen Think I'd rather get rid of Flower. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 KP might have given his wicket away a couple of times, but I can't see him being left out any time soon. He still scores too many runs for that to happen, but I agree with what Vaughan was saying that they need to give him a role in the field in which he is more proactive. I think Cook made a lot of mistakes but he looked to be a man alone at times with little support from his team mates. Clarke had folk like Haddin, Smith and others helping him and suggesting field changes and placings but Cook didn't appear to have that sort of support around him. Prior certainly helped Cook in that regard but his form with the bat and then crucially with the gloves meant he couldnt remain inthe side for the last tests. It certainly seemed odd to have Pietersen wandering around the outfield latterly. Its pretty clear that the England management have struggled to handle Pietersens ego and personality. Certainly, Flower has struggled and its obvious they dont geton. But it looks like its Mexican stand off time. Neither man is looking in a particularly strong position. Pitersens had a poor series and Flower has presided over a whitewash. Hopefully they both man up and get on with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eednud Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 It's just not cricket but they did well. http://www.news.com.au/sport/cricket/england-cricketers-matt-prior-and-stuart-help-prevent-suicidal-man-from-jumping-off-bridge-in-sydneys-darling-harbour/story-fndpt0dy-1226797724637 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endieinreekie Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Was the potential jumper a certain A Cook? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swarley Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Some good news for England finally, Australia are resting Mitch Johnson for the first one day game! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Some good news for England finally, Australia are resting Mitch Johnson for the first one day game! Not making a lot of difference tbh. England scored 269-7 from their 50 overs with Ballance top scoring on 79. Australia need 52 from 78 balls to win with 8 wickets still in hand. Finch and Warner took the game to England right from the start and Finch is still there on 111. He's had a bit of luck but batted well, England's attack has looked very light apart from Jordan who has bowled pretty well with no reward. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Finch goes for 121, he's the first Victorian to score a ODI ton at the MCG. Edited January 12, 2014 by peasy23 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagyar Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Very comfortable victory in the end. England?????. Woeful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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