Golfers Thread

[peasy23]

Final score lads? 

19-9.

[Wee-Bey]

4 minutes ago, peasy23 said:

It's a two year qualification period (which was rejigged to cater for the 3 year gap between Ryder cups), which is partly what contributed to Europe's troubles, it meant guys like Westwood and Fitzpatrick were shoe ins despite being poor all this year.

Covid was a factor in this result undoubtedly. This match looks a lot different played in September 2020.

[lichtie23]

6 minutes ago, peasy23 said:

7 minutes ago, lichtie23 said:

Final score lads? 

19-9.

Didn’t even reach double figures. Humiliating 

[Distant Doonhamer]

It’s pretty clear hearing the various interviews that Stricker had an almost forensic approach to this. I’ve been really impressed by him. This was an absolute mission to the American team and Stricker got some very difficult personalities to buy into that. Hats off to them.

[Wee-Bey]

3 minutes ago, peasy23 said:

8 minutes ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

I don’t remember Westwood ever saying that. He’s had an excellent career over a prolonged period. I’ve no doubt no Majors will be a regret but he’s got plenty to be happy about. 40 plus career wins for a guy with a loser attitude is a pretty good return.

Similar to Henman who regularly gets abuse as a "serial bottler" in the tennis thread, I think he made the most of his abilities. He was always good tee to green but his putting could be ropey. Plenty of players would kill to have a resume like his.

For guys who aren't multiple major winning superstars and only win 1 major, I think there's a lot of being in the right place at the right time for their big win. Paul Lawrie is an obvious example. 

You could probably name a dozen major winners who weren't as good, or had the longevity of career that Westwood did. The chips just never fell right for him in the majors like they did for others. The putter never got hot at the weekend, never got that lucky bounce.

[Guest]

Only the 2nd time Europe has failed to reach double figures and the first time since 1981. Lowest score by any team since Europe United in 1979 and since the modern format was adopted. Good US team meets a European team that just didn't get going. We need the next generation to step up next time or we are in serious danger of losing at home for the first time in 30 years

[peasy23]

For guys who aren't multiple major winning superstars and only win 1 major, I think there's a lot of being in the right place at the right time for their big win. Paul Lawrie is an obvious example. 
You could probably name a dozen major winners who weren't as good, or had the longevity of career that Westwood did. The chips just never fell right for him in the majors like they did for others. The putter never got hot at the weekend, never got that lucky bounce.

Yep, like when Leicester won the Premier League, they had a terrific season but it was matched with a perfect storm of all the other likely title contenders being shite, leaving them to fend off Spurs with all the usual suspects floundering. Right place right time.

I'm sure it will sting a little for Westwood that since the Open he now holds the record on his own of most majors played without winning one, (88 btw) only him and Luke Donald have ever got to world number 1 without winning a major. He has had a terrific career.

[peasy23]

Only the 2nd time Europe has failed to reach double figures and the first time since 1981. Lowest score by any team since Europe United in 1979 and since the modern format was adopted. Good US team meets a European team that just didn't get going. We need the next generation to step up next time or we are in serious danger of losing at home for the first time in 30 years

As mentioned on commentary, the 81 US team had 11 major winners on it, they were obscenely good.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, Meeniedee said:

i know they did..yet the yanks had 6 captains picks...that was painful to watch...pick 6 from the european tour automatically then have 6 free picks from boys in form...this could be a bleak 20 years for european golf.

This is just reactionary nonsense basically.

What difference did the 6 captain's pick for them make? If he'd just had to pick the top 12 in their qualification list 11 of the same players would have played anyway (Patrick Reed 11th would have been in instead of Scottie Scheffler 14th). Stricker didn't pull anybody out of left-field for this. The picks are really meant to allow for guys coming out of nowhere late, or guys who've been injured and missed a lot of the season. Personally I don't think I want to see us going down a route of making it much more than 3 or maybe 4 picks.

Which Europeans should have been playing instead of presumably Poulter, Westwood and Casey then (or Garcia) since they are the oldest players? Are we seriously suggesting there were Europeans out there who would have done much better against in form Americans who are better than them at the moment? Rose maybe but he could just as easily have played instead of one of the wildcards and got nothing and you'd be on here saying he was too old and past it too.

The slightly complex nature of European qualifying doesn't help. The American don't have that issue. They have the PGA list and that's it. We acknowledge financially that some of our better players base themselves on the US tour and therefore to pick the team entirely from the European Tour list doesn't work. We used to do that and it left too many top players out so we adjusted to include World Rankings. It gives anomalies but I'm not at all convinced we could have fielded a much stronger side with a different system.

These things are cyclical to an extent and we were long overdue a humping. We've been punching above our weight based on the Yanks being unable to form a cohesive "team" for years. They have a terrific young squad now and most of them will be there for many cups to come. Their old guard of Woods, Mickelson, Furyk, Zach Johnson, etc have been swept aside. We're reaching that stage now. Donald's gone. Stenson's gone, Kaymer's gone. Westwood on the way out for sure. Poulter probably too. Unconvinced we'll see Garcia or even Casey again either. We may suffer for a few years here. I don't think that will change depending on how many picks we have though.

EDIT - And as I write this Butch Harmon is claiming European captains should have 6 picks without really justifying why he thinks it would have changed anything.

36 minutes ago, Namond Brice said:

Covid was a factor in this result undoubtedly. This match looks a lot different played in September 2020.

Of course it would. A number of ours were in better form a year ago and some of the Americans much younger and less experienced. We might have won, it would certainly have been closer. But it is what it is. That's just timing. The change of guard was still coming, Covid didn't cause that, it just arrived a year earlier than it would have as a result.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Skyline Drifter

[Wee-Bey]

15 minutes ago, peasy23 said:

Yep, like when Leicester won the Premier League, they had a terrific season but it was matched with a perfect storm of all the other likely title contenders being shite, leaving them to fend off Spurs with all the usual suspects floundering. Right place right time.

I'm sure it will sting a little for Westwood that since the Open he now holds the record on his own of most majors played without winning one, (88 btw) only him and Luke Donald have ever got to world number 1 without winning a major. He has had a terrific career.

Yeah, there's plenty of criticism you could level at him, he looks past it now, he was an average putter at best. I'm not having a man who has won over 40 times, in all 4 corners of the globe including 6 play off wins, a Matchplay title and a good Ryder Cup record as 'a bottler'.

[Distant Doonhamer]

Yeah, there's plenty of criticism you could level at him, he looks past it now, he was an average putter at best. I'm not having a man who has won over 40 times, in all 4 corners of the globe including 6 play off wins, a Matchplay title and a good Ryder Cup record as 'a bottler'.

Absolutely this.

[peasy23]

Yeah, there's plenty of criticism you could level at him, he looks past it now, he was an average putter at best. I'm not having a man who has won over 40 times, in all 4 corners of the globe including 6 play off wins, a Matchplay title and a good Ryder Cup record as 'a bottler'.

His biggest problem now is he can't hit it as far as all the young guns, and that's not going to get any better as he gets older.

We have a lot of players who should still be in their prime who are doing very little.

Kaymer is 36.
Francesco Molinari is 38.
Pieters is 29.
Willett is 33.
Dubuisson is 31.


There's just a few who have either won majors or performed well at Ryder Cups who have simply disappeared from the top end of leaderboards.

[peasy23]

Worst shot of the week?

[Wee-Bey]

I do think the qualification process and number of wildcards needs looked at, even if it is just made the same for both sides. 6 is too many, you would as well to make it like a football team, where the manager just picks the whole side. 4 seems a sensible number. 

The picking of captains ? Seems like a procession of the big names thinking they have the right to have a shot one after the other. It should always be best man for the job, and if that means someone gets 2 or 3 in a row, then so be it.

The two tier qualification needs binned. One list covering everyone, with the majors, wgc's and the bigger events on both tours given more weighting (just like the fantasy league ). This should become easier with the new strategic partnership between the tours which starts this year.

Finally, the President's Cup has worked wonders for the US recently, it's now a training ground for captain's, players and partnerships, which they are all now buying into. Do we attempt something like the Seve Trophy again, or do our bigger names still think they're above that sort of thing ?

 

[Wee-Bey]

23 minutes ago, peasy23 said:

Kaymer is 36.
Francesco Molinari is 38.
Pieters is 29.
Willett is 33.
Dubuisson is 31.


There's just a few who have either won majors or performed well at Ryder Cups who have simply disappeared from the top end of leaderboards.

It's a worry, but there's time for them. 2 years is a long time in golf.

 

[peasy23]

It's a worry, but there's time for them. 2 years is a long time in golf.
 

It's not all doom and gloom tbf. Hopefully some of the other young guys can keep improving and push to get in the team.

Bob Mac
Migliozzi
Both Hojgaards
Detry
Hill
Forrest

[Wee-Bey]

5 minutes ago, Namond Brice said:

The two tier qualification needs binned. One list covering everyone, with the majors, wgc's and the bigger events on both tours given more weighting (just like the fantasy league ).

If anyone is interested (you're probably not) this would be the top 12 team in order using this system for this calender year. There's probably a couple that would be in or close that aren't in the Fantasy league. Noren for one.

Rahm

Hovland

Casey

McIlroy 

Hatton

Fitzpatrick 

Detry

Weisberger 

R Højgaard

Fleetwood

Rose

Donaldson

----------

Sergio

Boab

Westwood

Lowry

Rozner

The next 5.

 

 

[Skyline Drifter]

8 minutes ago, Namond Brice said:

I do think the qualification process and number of wildcards needs looked at, even if it is just made the same for both sides. 6 is too many, you would as well to make it like a football team, where the manager just picks the whole side. 4 seems a sensible number. 

The picking of captains ? Seems like a procession of the big names thinking they have the right to have a shot one after the other. It should always be best man for the job, and if that means someone gets 2 or 3 in a row, then so be it.

The two tier qualification needs binned. One list covering everyone, with the majors, wgc's and the bigger events on both tours given more weighting (just like the fantasy league ). This should become easier with the new strategic partnership between the tours which starts this year.

Finally, the President's Cup has worked wonders for the US recently, it's now a training ground for captain's, players and partnerships, which they are all now buying into. Do we attempt something like the Seve Trophy again, or do our bigger names still think they're above that sort of thing ?

6 is far too many. I wouldn't even go to 4 personally. If you get the qualification route right it shouldn't need 4. I don't see any reason why the two sides should be forced to pick their side the same way though. The market they are looking at is different. I think the US captain has far too many picks but ultimately Stricker did nothing much with them. If he'd had 2 picks we'd have had the same 12 players.

Agreed about the captains. I actually think we change it too often. A successful captain should really be lobbied to do the job again if they are willing. We've had far too many players given the job as a reward for being long term successful players. Part of the problem of course is that because we have done so well for so long that's a lengthy list.

A single tier qualification would be simpler for everyone to understand but I don't know how easily it can be achieved and I'm not convinced it not all just optics anyway. Does it really make the team stronger?

The problem with the Seve Trophy is it's not played by Europe. It doesn't foster the same team relationship. It doesn't give the opportunity for Anglo/ Euro playing partnerships even if those are not all that common anyway. It's not the same TEAM and the European captain, whichever side he takes control of, isn't captaining his whole squad. It would be much better if Europe could also play the Rest of the World but presumably it can't be fitted into the calendar. The return of the Seve Trophy would certainly be better than nothing though if the major European players would buy into it.

[Distant Doonhamer]

I've long ago switched off but who won the Jacklin Nicklaus awards.

[peasy23]

I've long ago switched off but who won the Jacklin Nicklaus awards.

Paul Azinger