honestly united Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 I think the generating the fans is the biggest problem a 3rd team would have. As has been seen everywhere (except for the Wasps move which has been done exccellently) when you create a new franchise you never get the backing you think you will, and it takes years to develop. Look at the state of the pro teams in wales for example, as compared to the Irish. Irish went with the 4 pre-existing provicinces as a pro model and it has gone very well for them, the Welsh had a strong club set up, but went with districts and the fans were never that interested and many stuck with their clubs in the welsh league. I think Scotland defiately has the players and coaches to fill a 3rd team, i think the issue is more having the money to finance them. If Glasgow and Edinburgh were a bit more self sufficent (I think Glasgow could be with a larger ground) then it would be a possibility. Im not convinced by the 6 team semi pro league at all. The idea that there is a good quality semi-pro set up below the Pro Game is a sound idea, what they are putting in place isn't. I would maybe have gone with the best 8 current clubs and shared the money out between them each year, had promotion and relegation etc would have been a much better idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilky1878 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Just now, honestly united said: I think the generating the fans is the biggest problem a 3rd team would have. As has been seen everywhere (except for the Wasps move which has been done exccellently) when you create a new franchise you never get the backing you think you will, and it takes years to develop. Look at the state of the pro teams in wales for example, as compared to the Irish. Irish went with the 4 pre-existing provicinces as a pro model and it has gone very well for them, the Welsh had a strong club set up, but went with districts and the fans were never that interested and many stuck with their clubs in the welsh league. I think Scotland defiately has the players and coaches to fill a 3rd team, i think the issue is more having the money to finance them. If Glasgow and Edinburgh were a bit more self sufficent (I think Glasgow could be with a larger ground) then it would be a possibility. Im not convinced by the 6 team semi pro league at all. The idea that there is a good quality semi-pro set up below the Pro Game is a sound idea, what they are putting in place isn't. I would maybe have gone with the best 8 current clubs and shared the money out between them each year, had promotion and relegation etc would have been a much better idea. Do you (or anyone else for that matter) have any decent links that show the details of the 6 team semi pro league? Being in Suffolk the stuff i've seen mostly on it is on here so not sure what I think of it yet. The only thing I would say is a 6 team league sitting just below the pro league doesn't sound like a good number of teams and you'd think they'd want more 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Interesting assessment. We both know that investment would be made into the squad with a few foreign players, maybe a few ex internationals etc. So long as development and progress is seen to be achieved then vast sums of money doesn't necessarily need to be spent in getting a third pro team being at least competitive. The teams you watched should in theory be good enough as "squad players" and would they be far off the standard at times like the international windows? Big issue I think is fan base and the potential lack of it although player and coaching depth is also a concern for me. Yep even if its not ready to go now there should at least be a three or five year plan ready for the greenlight. South isn't a viable option which leaves caley. Football grounds are too small so either redevelop an existing ground or build a new one presumably in either Inverness Aberdeen Dundee/Perth or stirling. Highland have a new clubhouse n excellent 4g in Inverness but not the population. Stirling county ground is a nightmare to get in out of n terrible drainage. Aberdeen property costs are a problem. If we don't go down caley reds then it could be London Scottish. For me wasting cash on the six club league would be crazy. It would hamper youth n senior development across the country with no guarantee of even maintaining or improving current playing standards. It also doesn't seem financially sustainable to run six squads of thirty five semi pros. Would this elite league attract more fans than BT prem ?? It would need a heck of a lot more. In short for me develop semi pro players using the district championship / winners to b&I cup?? And get a proper study into long term plans for third pro side 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 As regards the 'Super Six': for now the previous predictions are coming to pass (i.e. the interested clubs being touted in the media are the major provincial teams with lack of interest from the Borders and Edinburgh especially). So far the clubs I've seen linked with it are Currie - now renamed "Currie Chieftains"; Ayr; Aberdeen GSFP; and Stirling County. You presume that Glasgow Hawks will also be interested, but they've got stadium issues currently, plus that'd mean Ayr or 1 of Aberdeen/Stirling/Currie being turned away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 As regards the 'Super Six': for now the previous predictions are coming to pass (i.e. the interested clubs being touted in the media are the major provincial teams with lack of interest from the Borders and Edinburgh especially). So far the clubs I've seen linked with it are Currie - now renamed "Currie Chieftains"; Ayr; Aberdeen GSFP; and Stirling County. You presume that Glasgow Hawks will also be interested, but they've got stadium issues currently, plus that'd mean Ayr or 1 of Aberdeen/Stirling/Currie being turned away. On subject of Currie they were through at stirling last Sunday in top tier of u16 league and brought only 12 players. County put two teams put that weekend. Currie have at least twice this season failed to put a full team out. No excuse for a club that size and especially if they are sniffing for this top six thing. One of my concerns on this top six elite league is that those involved will concentrate every thing on the 1st xv n forget about youth development. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwffc Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 That is scandalous. Tier 1 nations and IRB need to do more here. If rugby truly wants to grow then these issues need to be addressed.Re. The game, I think we will win by 15+. Samoa not great away from WCs.... accept against Wales [emoji38] The Pacific islands get next to nothing for playing November tests, all the money goes to the host countries, some of the islanders playing for England are organising a whip round amongst the team to help pay the Fijians Slipped up over in Fiji in the summer allied to the fact that Samoa have given us some tough games recently so the Polynesians will be a tricky task and a real banana skin. Who knows what Samoa will turn up? Either galvanised or in turmoil. This is because the Samoan PM is looking for public donations to bail out the Samoan Union as they are bankrupt apparently... The Samoan PM is also the head of there rugby union and the whole country is in trouble. Yes the touring sides don't make much money from the tests (smae with the All Blacks, Australia and South Africa in the autumn and the Six Nations sides in the summer). World Rugby pays the transport costs to get each touring side to the first country they play then the each host side (Scotland, Romania and England in Samoa case) pays for all accommodation, food and training costs (apart from when a tier 2 side hosts a tier 1 side World Rugby pays the costs). World Rugby has also paid for the insurance for the Samoan players and is also investing an extra £1.5million per year to Samoa and the other Pacific island sides in the run up to the next World Cup 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eednud Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 9 minutes ago, ajwffc said: The Samoan PM is also the head of there rugby union and the whole country is in trouble. Yes the touring sides don't make much money from the tests (smae with the All Blacks, Australia and South Africa in the autumn and the Six Nations sides in the summer). World Rugby pays the transport costs to get each touring side to the first country they play then the each host side (Scotland, Romania and England in Samoa case) pays for all accommodation, food and training costs (apart from when a tier 2 side hosts a tier 1 side World Rugby pays the costs). World Rugby has also paid for the insurance for the Samoan players and is also investing an extra £1.5million per year to Samoa and the other Pacific island sides in the run up to the next World Cup This is from today's NZ Herald about Samoan rugby being insolvent, http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11941984 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 The Samoan PM is also the head of there rugby union and the whole country is in trouble. Yes the touring sides don't make much money from the tests (smae with the All Blacks, Australia and South Africa in the autumn and the Six Nations sides in the summer). World Rugby pays the transport costs to get each touring side to the first country they play then the each host side (Scotland, Romania and England in Samoa case) pays for all accommodation, food and training costs (apart from when a tier 2 side hosts a tier 1 side World Rugby pays the costs). World Rugby has also paid for the insurance for the Samoan players and is also investing an extra £1.5million per year to Samoa and the other Pacific island sides in the run up to the next World Cup Fukin spongers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwffc Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I am sure everyone will want to watch the latest video on the Pro14 YouTube page again Spoiler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
come on shire Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 It'll be interesting to see where our game goes with the introduction of the semi-pro league. Granted I don't follow too club rugby too closely as I'm more into the professional game but I would like to think it wouldn't have been drawn up without the thought put into the venture and analysing the possible outcomes. We'll just have to wait and see what happens I guess. Samoa are going to be a difficult obstacle on Saturday. Outwith their home ground and on a neutral venue (they beat us in the 4 team tournament in SA in 2013 and pushed us all the way at the 2015 RWC) their away form isn't the best (though they did beat Wales in Cardiff in 2012) however the issues their union has may galvanise them. Major banana skin and they'll command respect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 One only has to look at the history of the pro districts since the inception of professionalism to know that the sru is more than happy to make a decision without even vaguely considering the outcome and consequences.... The idea that we should disband the sevens side just as its bearing fruit is a perfect illustration of this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I get the impression someone at the SRU has decided that having a semi-pro set up under the Pro teams was a good idea, and has decided that they should create a new league and new teams.... ....without realising there are already a semi-pro clubs, playing in a league set up below the pro teams 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I get the impression someone at the SRU has decided that having a semi-pro set up under the Pro teams was a good idea, and has decided that they should create a new league and new teams.... ....without realising there are already a semi-pro clubs, playing in a league set up below the pro teams Yep and when told that semi professionalism is a thing decided to ban anyone else whose already doing it! Seriously it such a stupid idea that they haven't even thought about the fact that they cannot legally cancel employment contracts for players n coaches. The contracts will be with clubs not the sru. They simply don't have the jurisdiction to ban payments which have already been agreed. Its utter absurdity. Why would you only want youth players in six teams to encounter professional coaching?? Its like some drunken blazer has been reminiscing about the good old days of amateurism n when the conversions were more important than the tries, and somehow they've been given actual responsibility. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Team for sat.....not sure about loose head or hooker. Pretty strong otherwise. Not expecting much from lineouts n bench is ummm interesting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Is toony announcing his team today? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Is toony announcing his team today? Ahh. 2 mins too late. Cheers dogmc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 To be fair the only suprises in the starting 15 selection are Marfo instead of Fagerson, and Toolis ahead of Swinson In terms of the bench, Bhatti and Turner I wouldn't want to be starting for Glasgow, nevermind in a Scotland squad, rest of bench is much of a muchness, Horne and Harris should be able to cover all the backs positions, makes a change from having a 10 and a back 3 player. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
come on shire Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I'll just leave this here: Samoa XV: Ah See Tuala, Paul Perez, Kieron Fonotia, Reynold Lee-Lo,David Lemi, Tim Nanai Williams, Pele Cowley;Jordan Lay, Manu Leiataua, Donald Brighouse, Josh Tyrell, Chris Vui (capt), Piula Fa'asalele, TJ Ioane, Jack Lam. Replacements: Motu Matu'u, James Lay, Hisa Sasagi, Fa'atiga Lemalu, Ofisa Treviranus, Mealani Matavao, AJ Alatimu, Alapati Leiua. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afca32 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Scotland team from back row onwards is as hoped. Not sure about the front row and Toolis but won't complain much. Nanai Williams is a flyer and a very decent player for Samoa but I'd be surprised if he's ever played 10 before. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 To be fair the only suprises in the starting 15 selection are Marfo instead of Fagerson, and Toolis ahead of Swinson In terms of the bench, Bhatti and Turner I wouldn't want to be starting for Glasgow, nevermind in a Scotland squad, rest of bench is much of a muchness, Horne and Harris should be able to cover all the backs positions, makes a change from having a 10 and a back 3 player. It's nel keeping fagerson out. Marfo is a loosehead. Happy enough with toolis as he was excellent in summer tour. Bhatti n turner should be nowhere near international rugby. Not convinced they are even pro 14 standard. Its a strong back five n back line but not keen on bench options. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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