Rugby Union

[aDONisSheep]

My take on this Six Nations campaign.

 

The main one is that France and Ireland are well ahead of Scotland, England, Wales & Italy.  They know how they are going to play and not only that they play it at pace, with power and with a lot of skill.  They are two teams that I'd pay good money to watch (and I've not said that about either for a long time).

For Scotland to beat either of them, Scotland would have to play very well and they would have to be off the boil.

 

Onto Scotland and my half-ersed takes.

The positives;

Scotland are still creating chances; two butchered 3 on 1's and numerous visits to opposing 22s are testement to the fact, and who knows what a bit more scoreboard pressure might have done in both the France and Ireland games (I think we would still have got beaten, but woulda, coulda, shoulda).

There is talent coming through (although I do worry about U20 results).  Darge & White didn't look out of place at all.

The scrum which for many-a-year was our achillies heal is still pretty good.

Darcy Graham, he is not only good for Scotland, but he's a joy for rugby full stop.

 

The negatives;

We're not dynamic and ambitious enough, particularly the front 5.  Scotland have some decent players, but they don't hit the line at full tilt like the Irish and French do.  Not only that, we are more prone to look to go to ground and re-cycle that way than off-load (which both the French and Irish do much better than us).  This is fine, if your clear out is there with you.  I get as frustruated as hell with the wat the irish fly in off their feet, but they get away with it.  We on the other hand are often late and too conservative. 

The line out, it's just not functioning properly.  For a couple of years it was a proper weapon, with a very dangerous maul that went with it, now we're just delighted to retain ball.

I don't think we've got a style of play, we don't seem to pod-up very well.  Too often it is a one-up runner who gets isolated.

Blair Kinghorn is not an international Fly-half (yet).  This is not a critisism of him, the poor fvkker has only played about a dozen top flight games at 10, but yet he was expected to unlock one of the meanest teams in world rugby.  He needs more time to develop domestically before he usurps Russell or Hastings.

 

In a way you could look at the Wales loss as a good thing.  Had we won it and finished third, we'd have papered over the cracks. 

I'd like to think that we can develop a slightly quicker game.  But for that I think that we may need to ease back on a bit of the bulk in our second row.  Gray and Cummings are good  defensively, but they're not exactly explosive when carrying. 

In general though, I'm not wetting my knickers.  Last year we were unlucky in the 6N and we did beat an in-form Australia in the autumn.  The wheels haven't completely come off, it's more our hope that's killing us.

Yours, keeping the faith.

aDONis

[AngusTheBull]

27 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Ritchie should be captain but it looks unlikely he will be fit for the summer.

 

 

Yep, not sure who the obvious candidate would then be if -- as has been suggested -- we leave a lot of the lions/senior players at home. Gilchrist perhaps, or someone like Matt Fagerson?

 

37 minutes ago, aDONisSheep said:

I'd like to think that we can develop a slightly quicker game.  But for that I think that we may need to ease back on a bit of the bulk in our second row.  Gray and Cummings are good  defensively, but they're not exactly explosive when carrying. 

I generally agree - the counterpoint would be that if we are picking a relatively small back row (by international standards) of Darge, Watson and Fagerson then we really need to make up for that bulk in the second row.

This is another area where Ritchie being out hurts us massively, while other bigger guys like Bradbury haven't been able to step up to the plate internationally imo.

[aDONisSheep]

Does anyone know what is happening with the U20s.  Some worrying batterings in this 6N and only one point (try bonus) in the entire comp. 

Have we got some good talent coming through, or do we have a real problem coming down the line?

Yours

aDONis

[jaggyness]

Does anyone know what is happening with the U20s.  Some worrying batterings in this 6N and only one point (try bonus) in the entire comp. 
Have we got some good talent coming through, or do we have a real problem coming down the line?
Yours
aDONis

They were talking about England but Chris Jones, Matt Dawson etc were saying that u20s isn't really a good barometer as a lot of these guys haven't played a professional match and there's no real quantifiable measure that being a good u20s player translates into a good full international

[Mark Connolly]

The thing that grates with me most is that we got absolutely horsed in the RWC by Japan, who were basically playing the traditional Scottish game of offload or lightning fast ruck.

[aDONisSheep]

13 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

The thing that grates with me most is that we got absolutely horsed in the RWC by Japan, who were basically playing the traditional Scottish game of offload or lightning fast ruck.

That Japan game is the only Scotland defeat that I re-watch.  I honesty think it was one of the best games of rugby ever.

I also think it was Japan's high water mark.  Everything they tried came off.  (I know they beat SA, but I mean from a pure execution of great rugby).

 

Ireland did the same, Gibson-Park absolutely buzzed around dishing out lightening-quick ball (when he wasn't out-thinking us with his tap and goes).

In fairness to Ireland, it looks to me like Farrell has taken the exceptionally well oiled basics of Schmidt's forward based play and added more pace and variation.  Scotland have never had that up front dominance (well not since I can ever remember).  But we did used to have more pace and drive up front with good pick-and-go support.

Given that we're not going to be a power pack, I'd like to see more offloading in the tackle by the forwards, then let Price/Finn run riot whilst defences are adjusting.

Easier said than done though and certainly higher risk...

 

But better to watch 

Yours

aDONis

 

[John Lambies Doos]

My take on this Six Nations campaign.
 
The main one is that France and Ireland are well ahead of Scotland, England, Wales & Italy.  They know how they are going to play and not only that they play it at pace, with power and with a lot of skill.  They are two teams that I'd pay good money to watch (and I've not said that about either for a long time).
For Scotland to beat either of them, Scotland would have to play very well and they would have to be off the boil.
 
Onto Scotland and my half-ersed takes.
The positives;
Scotland are still creating chances; two butchered 3 on 1's and numerous visits to opposing 22s are testement to the fact, and who knows what a bit more scoreboard pressure might have done in both the France and Ireland games (I think we would still have got beaten, but woulda, coulda, shoulda).
There is talent coming through (although I do worry about U20 results).  Darge & White didn't look out of place at all.
The scrum which for many-a-year was our achillies heal is still pretty good.
Darcy Graham, he is not only good for Scotland, but he's a joy for rugby full stop.
 
The negatives;
We're not dynamic and ambitious enough, particularly the front 5.  Scotland have some decent players, but they don't hit the line at full tilt like the Irish and French do.  Not only that, we are more prone to look to go to ground and re-cycle that way than off-load (which both the French and Irish do much better than us).  This is fine, if your clear out is there with you.  I get as frustruated as hell with the wat the irish fly in off their feet, but they get away with it.  We on the other hand are often late and too conservative. 
The line out, it's just not functioning properly.  For a couple of years it was a proper weapon, with a very dangerous maul that went with it, now we're just delighted to retain ball.
I don't think we've got a style of play, we don't seem to pod-up very well.  Too often it is a one-up runner who gets isolated.
Blair Kinghorn is not an international Fly-half (yet).  This is not a critisism of him, the poor fvkker has only played about a dozen top flight games at 10, but yet he was expected to unlock one of the meanest teams in world rugby.  He needs more time to develop domestically before he usurps Russell or Hastings.
 
In a way you could look at the Wales loss as a good thing.  Had we won it and finished third, we'd have papered over the cracks. 
I'd like to think that we can develop a slightly quicker game.  But for that I think that we may need to ease back on a bit of the bulk in our second row.  Gray and Cummings are good  defensively, but they're not exactly explosive when carrying. 
In general though, I'm not wetting my knickers.  Last year we were unlucky in the 6N and we did beat an in-form Australia in the autumn.  The wheels haven't completely come off, it's more our hope that's killing us.
Yours, keeping the faith.
aDONis

I agree with most of that, I would however question the offloading point.
Over the last 5 yrs (exception this campaign) Scotland were on their own in second, behind France on offloading and the Irish were bottom ie about 2 offloads a game. So I can't fathom why this has now dropped, Ireland traditionally are not better off loaders than us, admittedly they adapt whilst we are going back the way. Really believe some of this is due to Gatlands influence on Toony during Lions tour

[ajwffc]

13 hours ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

I see Chile knocked Canada out of the World Cup. First time they've not made it to the finals.

they beat them 54-46 on aggreged in October. They now play USA over 2 legs in July with winner qualifying as Americas 2 (in group D) and the looser entering the Final Qualifying Tournament (with Romania, Africa 2 (runner up of the 2022 Africa Cup (one of Namibia,  Burkina Faso, Zimbabwe, Ivory Coast, Senegal, Algeria, Uganda, Kenya))and the looser of Asia 1 (Hong Kong, Malaysia or South Korea)v Tonga (winner is in our group))

[Salvo Montalbano]

1 hour ago, ajwffc said:

they beat them 54-46 on aggreged in October. They now play USA over 2 legs in July with winner qualifying as Americas 2 (in group D) and the looser entering the Final Qualifying Tournament (with Romania, Africa 2 (runner up of the 2022 Africa Cup (one of Namibia,  Burkina Faso, Zimbabwe, Ivory Coast, Senegal, Algeria, Uganda, Kenya))and the looser of Asia 1 (Hong Kong, Malaysia or South Korea)v Tonga (winner is in our group))

Wow, what a drop off from Romania. I remember when they were the best of the rest.

[ajwffc]

38 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

Wow, what a drop off from Romania. I remember when they were the best of the rest.

they lost out the the 2nd auto Europe spot 2 Spain by 1pt

[Detournement]

21 hours ago, Mark Connolly said:

The thing that grates with me most is that we got absolutely horsed in the RWC by Japan, who were basically playing the traditional Scottish game of offload or lightning fast ruck.

Aye but they combined that with temporary Godzilla style super strength.

There wasn't a huge difference physically between us and Ireland in the past two fixtures but it wouldn't surprise me at all if there is in France next summer. The Boks showed how to hit a physical peak in 2019.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Detournement

[flyingscot]

19 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Aye but they combined that with temporary Godzilla style super strength.

There wasn't a huge difference physically between us and Ireland in the past two fixtures but it wouldn't surprise me at all if there is in France next summer. The Boks showed how to hit a physical peak in 2019.

Ireland not peaking at a world cup is classic though.

18 hours ago, ajwffc said:

they lost out the the 2nd auto Europe spot 2 Spain by 1pt

Difficult for Canada and Romania to progress really. Arguably they've regressed as the game has gone pro and others have caught up. 

[honestly united]

1 hour ago, flyingscot said:

Ireland not peaking at a world cup is classic though.

Difficult for Canada and Romania to progress really. Arguably they've regressed as the game has gone pro and others have caught up. 

Canada sat back when the MLS started and declined the offer of teams at the start, they have joined in now but are years behind the US now, when previously they were much the better team.

[flyingscot]

1 hour ago, honestly united said:

Canada sat back when the MLS started and declined the offer of teams at the start, they have joined in now but are years behind the US now, when previously they were much the better team.

It's massively complex. Canada have been a bit of a car crash from 2013 really. There has been so many Canadian rugby competitions over the past wee while too. They had the amateur cup competition which seems to have been stopped since 2018. 

They were only a year behind entering the MLR but it's only one team, the Toronto Arrows, which seems to be loosely related to the Ontario Blues team at provincial level but is a private team. I think Rugby Canada supports their participation, hence they got Rob Howley to come in some capacity through connections with Kingsley Jones. 

However, Rugby Canada's HQ is west coast and it really needs more teams in MLR to really improve. Vancouver must be a shout for one and there's always been strong rugby base in the Maritimes, hence Glasgow playing there once.

Edited March 22, 2022 by flyingscot

[come on shire]

Tom English said in his recent article that a 4th game will be added to the 3 Tests in Argentina. 

I'd wager it'll be the previous weekend before the 1st Test to offer a warm up game. 

I'm hearing it'll be against Chile. They've got a 2 legged World Cup qualifier vs the USA so it's a good warm up for them too if it's true. 

[Mark Connolly]

3 hours ago, come on shire said:

Tom English said in his recent article that a 4th game will be added to the 3 Tests in Argentina. 

I'd wager it'll be the previous weekend before the 1st Test to offer a warm up game. 

I'm hearing it'll be against Chile. They've got a 2 legged World Cup qualifier vs the USA so it's a good warm up for them too if it's true. 

If it is Chile, that's a great decision by the SRU.

TBF to them (and I rarely am), we have always been one of the first to offer Test matches against the emerging nations.

[honestly united]

14 hours ago, flyingscot said:

It's massively complex. Canada have been a bit of a car crash from 2013 really. There has been so many Canadian rugby competitions over the past wee while too. They had the amateur cup competition which seems to have been stopped since 2018. 

They were only a year behind entering the MLR but it's only one team, the Toronto Arrows, which seems to be loosely related to the Ontario Blues team at provincial level but is a private team. I think Rugby Canada supports their participation, hence they got Rob Howley to come in some capacity through connections with Kingsley Jones. 

However, Rugby Canada's HQ is west coast and it really needs more teams in MLR to really improve. Vancouver must be a shout for one and there's always been strong rugby base in the Maritimes, hence Glasgow playing there once.

Was it not 2 season before the Canadian team joined?

Anyway they were offered be joint partners I believe, to begin with, then were offered 2 teams in the inaugrial season but rejected both offers. The just dont seem to be producing players anymore, the majority of the test team last time I looked were all in their 30's, pretty much DTH and his age group with no one coming through to replace them. Its been coming as I know a lot of there fans didnt think they would qualify last time, and from memory only made it through the repachge, although I may be wrong. The likes of Chile and Brazil are improving and will be helped by the SLR so it may not be a quick turn around in fortunes for them.

Spain being back in, and hopefully 1 other new face through the repachge this time round will be good, as it does nothing being the same 20 teams every 4 years at the world cup, even if the organisers are doing there best to ensure that happens

[flyingscot]

3 hours ago, honestly united said:

Was it not 2 season before the Canadian team joined?

Anyway they were offered be joint partners I believe, to begin with, then were offered 2 teams in the inaugrial season but rejected both offers. The just dont seem to be producing players anymore, the majority of the test team last time I looked were all in their 30's, pretty much DTH and his age group with no one coming through to replace them. Its been coming as I know a lot of there fans didnt think they would qualify last time, and from memory only made it through the repachge, although I may be wrong. The likes of Chile and Brazil are improving and will be helped by the SLR so it may not be a quick turn around in fortunes for them.

Spain being back in, and hopefully 1 other new face through the repachge this time round will be good, as it does nothing being the same 20 teams every 4 years at the world cup, even if the organisers are doing there best to ensure that happens

Yeah they joined in the expansion to 9 teams. Didn't realise they were offered two teams, and joint partners, hadn't heard that before.

The advantage for Canada is now there are 60+ Canadian qualified players playing in MLR. If they could get another team (Vancouver would work as a market instantly) then they could start a recovery by regular professional playing time. Problem is Rugby Canada nor anyone else seems to want to pay the $4m fee to join. 

[honestly united]

20 minutes ago, flyingscot said:

Yeah they joined in the expansion to 9 teams. Didn't realise they were offered two teams, and joint partners, hadn't heard that before.

The advantage for Canada is now there are 60+ Canadian qualified players playing in MLR. If they could get another team (Vancouver would work as a market instantly) then they could start a recovery by regular professional playing time. Problem is Rugby Canada nor anyone else seems to want to pay the $4m fee to join. 

I had thought they had tried to put a deal together with the Seattle team as obviously close to Vancouver (from memoery which may be wrong) Im sure they had a Canadian coach and had lined up a large number of Canadian players for the franchise but that fell through. Having an additional 60 plus pro's is a step in the right direction, but if you think the US now has 200 - 250 extra pro's there always going to be playing catch up

[Detournement]

The intelligent Scottish journalist thinks we need some sort of KPMG style of audit of the 6 Nations campaign. That sort of approach works so well for the English cricket and rugby teams. We lost 3 games, we won 2. It's sport that's what happens. 

How about they train harder, get better tactics and put down in writing exactly how much control the SRU have over downtime for contracted players and exiles?

Edited March 23, 2022 by Detournement