Rugby Union

[GAD]

Mind you, at least the signing of Healy hopefully means Kinghorn at 10 is no longer a thing?

[flyingscot]

10 hours ago, GAD said:

We are definitely miles behind Ireland, considering with the signing of Healy today for Edinburgh we are now going to start taking their players! The youth teams regularly get battered as well, with physicality seeming to be the biggest issue. I've got a mate who is a coach for U18s at a supposedly high level in Scotland and he's told some some sobering stories of games v Irish teams in particular having to be stopped before someone got hurt due to the differences in physicality and intensity.

I'm with you that we are behind Ireland by miles, but I'm not sure how we effectively fix this? That said, I'm not sure some of the physicality and intensity is necessary good for guys at u18s level. 

Healy signing today is a decent move for Edinburgh, given that Glasgow were interested apparently a few years back. Seems like someone Toony has been interested in for a while. 

11 hours ago, honestly united said:

I think its too early to write off the Super 6's but the coaches need to be ensuring the youngsters are playing and not just filling the team with older journeymen. Again a 3rd team would help to blood more players but as was said is  costly. Glasgow and Edinburgh now are probably bringing in a decent amount in gate money compared to 10 / 15 years ago (crowds up to close to 10k at Glasgow, compared to 3-4k not so long ago) which will also have increased sponsorship etc so maybe worth looking at again.

I'd like a 3rd Pro team to improve the playing squad but not sure where you put it. I still think the SRU should have made it London Scottish and invested in them, but that ship sailed. If you consider Scotland, I just don't see the Borders being viable for various reasons despite it being good rugby country, perhaps Tayside/Dundee would work but not sure how that impacts on other 2 existing teams. 

On the finances of the pro-teams, we'll not know, but with the number of players on the books (including international who probably aren't cheap) I suspect revenue is perhaps still marginal, especially given the talk of people like Al Kellock that increased ticket prices support retention of better players. We certainly can't compete with the likes of England or France on that score and shouldn't. 

Glasgow's crowds have plateaued or dipped slightly since the permanent sold out days (I notice far more empty seats). I also think Glasgow missed out on an opportunity to have a slightly bigger ground capacity as there was a market to get the non-rugby punter more engaged and turn them into rugby goer. Sadly the price hikes and sparseness of seats stops that but can't argue Glasgow have gone from 1.5K to 8k in 15 odd years. I think price of rugby is still a bit of an issue - I thought £40 was awful steep for the 1872 game at Murrayfield (£80 for 2 tickets plus travel) so we watched it on the telly but 25k were there so can't argue at that. 

[GAD]

6 hours ago, flyingscot said:

I'm with you that we are behind Ireland by miles, but I'm not sure how we effectively fix this? That said, I'm not sure some of the physicality and intensity is necessary good for guys at u18s level. 

Healy signing today is a decent move for Edinburgh, given that Glasgow were interested apparently a few years back. Seems like someone Toony has been interested in for a while. 

I'd like a 3rd Pro team to improve the playing squad but not sure where you put it. I still think the SRU should have made it London Scottish and invested in them, but that ship sailed. If you consider Scotland, I just don't see the Borders being viable for various reasons despite it being good rugby country, perhaps Tayside/Dundee would work but not sure how that impacts on other 2 existing teams. 

On the finances of the pro-teams, we'll not know, but with the number of players on the books (including international who probably aren't cheap) I suspect revenue is perhaps still marginal, especially given the talk of people like Al Kellock that increased ticket prices support retention of better players. We certainly can't compete with the likes of England or France on that score and shouldn't. 

Glasgow's crowds have plateaued or dipped slightly since the permanent sold out days (I notice far more empty seats). I also think Glasgow missed out on an opportunity to have a slightly bigger ground capacity as there was a market to get the non-rugby punter more engaged and turn them into rugby goer. Sadly the price hikes and sparseness of seats stops that but can't argue Glasgow have gone from 1.5K to 8k in 15 odd years. I think price of rugby is still a bit of an issue - I thought £40 was awful steep for the 1872 game at Murrayfield (£80 for 2 tickets plus travel) so we watched it on the telly but 25k were there so can't argue at that. 

I guess with the physicality and intensity thing, it depends what you are trying to do. Do you want rugby to be a fun runaround for everyone to enjoy at all levels, or do you want it to be a fiercely competitive bear pit where the cream rise to the top, the rest get left behind and you focus on building teams that win stuff. I don't know if I fully agree with it, but there is an argument you can't do both.

I think the problem with the Glasgow crowds is the lack of big names (Russell and Hogg put numbers on that gate, there is nobody like that now), the last few seasons of utter mediocrity and the loss of Friday night games during it, the high prices, and the fact it was really difficult for ordinary punters to actually buy tickets for a while as so much was sold to corporate, who often didn't show up. The amount of times I fancied going, went to buy a ticket, was told it was sold out, then watched the game on TV to see massive spaces in the stands was pretty high.

 

[Mark Connolly]

I’ve said it before, but after years of following them through a lot of thin, Glasgow finally got it right on the pitch when they won the league, and since then they have rewarded the fans by constantly increasing prices while simultaneously lowering the quality of the squad. Even the final at Celtic Park should have been a stepping stone, but they followed that by getting rid of all the best players and not replacing them with anything near resembling the quality.

They obviously haven’t been helped recently with the lack of Friday night games being scheduled by the league, but that is just one of a multitude of problems, the majority of which are self inflicted

[honestly united]

On the face of it the SRU's strategy was fairly sound if you accept that the teams remain mediocre. Accept that you cant compete with ENG / FRA on wages, let your top players move abroad at 26/27 for a pay day after giving Glasgow and Edinburgh some good years. This opens up spots for youngsters coming through in the squads, keeps costs reasonable etc

Obviously both have had some success over the last few years and there is now an expectation from fans, and also an increased income stream which has not been met with a new strategy. Obviously they are not going to pay top dollar for players, but we have had a couple of players (before Wasps / Worcester) come back up from England taking up spots and some of the imports have not been up to much. Maybe we were spoiled with Nakarawa, DTH and Matawalu but we havent had any hit those heights as of yet. 

Im not sure on the wages front how much the SRU are spending, but if you look at England the salary cap is £5m (plus marque player, and home grown exceptions) per team, how much are Glasgow / Edinburgh paying out? Its probably comparable given the size of the squads they have to carry due to internationals / limits on game time per season. Maybe wouldnt cost much more for a 3rd team if you could reduce the squads at Glasgow and Edinburgh slightly 

 

[ajwffc]

last time I searched for budgets for the two sides Glasgow was just over the £5m mark and Edinburg just bellow that. Welsh clubs about the same apart from Dragons who get a lot less than the others. Irish sides are about the £7m mark apart from Leinster who pay about £10m a year 

[flyingscot]

5 hours ago, GAD said:

I guess with the physicality and intensity thing, it depends what you are trying to do. Do you want rugby to be a fun runaround for everyone to enjoy at all levels, or do you want it to be a fiercely competitive bear pit where the cream rise to the top, the rest get left behind and you focus on building teams that win stuff. I don't know if I fully agree with it, but there is an argument you can't do both.

I think the problem with the Glasgow crowds is the lack of big names (Russell and Hogg put numbers on that gate, there is nobody like that now), the last few seasons of utter mediocrity and the loss of Friday night games during it, the high prices, and the fact it was really difficult for ordinary punters to actually buy tickets for a while as so much was sold to corporate, who often didn't show up. The amount of times I fancied going, went to buy a ticket, was told it was sold out, then watched the game on TV to see massive spaces in the stands was pretty high.

 

It's a difficult one, but I'm not sure how good or safe an idea the focus on physical rugby is to under 18s level. 

Many of Glasgow's issues weren't corporate tickets for me, but over random fixture times. I could predict the guys who wouldn't make it around us when it clashed with club rugby or football matches. They now have ticket resale, but not sure how well it goes as it's not constantly sold out. 

I still have my season ticket but if it wasn't for the covid cash rebates I might have chucked it. £427 - for 12 URC and Challenge Cup games... Sadly I remember the Firhill prices! Even this season I've missed 2 games already due to clashes with other things on... 

[honestly united]

2 hours ago, ajwffc said:

last time I searched for budgets for the two sides Glasgow was just over the £5m mark and Edinburg just bellow that. Welsh clubs about the same apart from Dragons who get a lot less than the others. Irish sides are about the £7m mark apart from Leinster who pay about £10m a year 

Is that £5m budget or £5m in wages, as im sure the travel / accommodation / coching staff etc would take a chunk of the budget if that is the total budget.

In other news

2 hours ago, flyingscot said:

It's a difficult one, but I'm not sure how good or safe an idea the focus on physical rugby is to under 18s level. 

 

S&C plays a huge part though, it doesnt matter how skillfull or well coached you are, if you are miles off it fitness and size wise as a team your not going to be winning, and your also impacting on the players development. Im not saying just go with the biggest and strongest, but you have got to be at least in the same ball park physically to compete

 

In other news looks like Hastings is out of 6Nations - means we have another year of Kinghorn in the squad

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/64177528

[ajwffc]

39 minutes ago, honestly united said:

Is that £5m budget or £5m in wages, as im sure the travel / accommodation / coching staff etc would take a chunk of the budget if that is the total budget.

 

i sure it was the SRU supplied wage budget 

 

[GAD]

1 hour ago, honestly united said:

Is that £5m budget or £5m in wages, as im sure the travel / accommodation / coching staff etc would take a chunk of the budget if that is the total budget.

In other news

S&C plays a huge part though, it doesnt matter how skillfull or well coached you are, if you are miles off it fitness and size wise as a team your not going to be winning, and your also impacting on the players development. Im not saying just go with the biggest and strongest, but you have got to be at least in the same ball park physically to compete

 

In other news looks like Hastings is out of 6Nations - means we have another year of Kinghorn in the squad

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/64177528

I think there is a good chance Healy will now be the backup 10 to Russell, though it's pretty much inevitable Kinghorn will play 10 at some point.

[come on shire]

Scotland assistant attack coach AB Zondach is leaving to head to the Top 14.  Lyon are the rumoured team. 

[come on shire]

Glasgow team for the game at home to the Stormers on Sunday at 3pm.  Andrew Brace from Ireland is the ref...

 

1. Jamie Bhatti (78)
2. George Turner (86)
3. Lucio Sordoni (6)
4. Lewis Bean (26)
5. JP du Preez (11)
6. Matt Fagerson (86)
7. Sione Vailanu (7)
8. Jack Dempsey (29)

9. George Horne (91)
10. Tom Jordan (11)
11. Kyle Steyn (C) (57)
12. Huw Jones (51)
13. Sione Tuipulotu (29)
14. Sebastian Cancelliere (19)
15. Ollie Smith (23)

Replacements

16. Fraser Brown (132)
17. Nathan McBeth (11)
18. Simon Berghan (20)
19. Alex Samuel (2)
20. Euan Ferrie (4)
21. Cameron Neild (3)
22. Ali Price (119)
23. Domingo Miotti (14)

[come on shire]

Stormers team.  This will be a real test for Glasgow I'm afraid...

DHL Stormers: 15 Clayton Blommetjies, 14 Suleiman Hartzenberg, 13 Dan du Plessis, 12 Damian Willemse, 11 Leolin Zas, 10 Manie Libbok, 9 Paul de Wet, 8 Hacjivah Dayimani, 7 Willie Engelbrecht, 6 Deon Fourie, 5 Marvin Orie, 4 Ben-Jason Dixon, 3 Neethling Fouche, 2 Joseph Dweba, 1 Steven Kitshoff (captain).
Replacements: 16 JJ Kotze, 17 Brok Harris, 18 Sazi Sandi, 19 Connor Evans, 20 Junior Pokomela, 21 Marcel Theunissen, 22 Imad Khan, 23 Angelo Davids.

[Mark Connolly]

Edinburgh making this really hard for themselves.

Saying that, it's hard to believe this Zebre team are somehow worse than the absolute dreck coming out of Wales

[Donathan]

Anyone know why the six nations scheduling is so lazy these days?

 

This year we play England, then Wales, France, Ireland and finish with Italy.

 

Last year was the exact same apart from switching the last two games over.

 

2021 was supposed to be the same as this year (Our game against France was rearranged)

 

Feels like we almost always start with England.

[Mark Connolly]

What a try from Glasgow!

[Mark Connolly]

And another!

[GAD]

Needs to hit that kick. Still started well. Were a bit unlucky I thought with the yellow and the Stormers try, as it came from a really shit advantage where I think we'd have preferred the knock on 20 yards up the pitch.

[ajwffc]

42 minutes ago, Donathan said:

Anyone know why the six nations scheduling is so lazy these days?

 

This year we play England, then Wales, France, Ireland and finish with Italy.

 

Last year was the exact same apart from switching the last two games over.

 

2021 was supposed to be the same as this year (Our game against France was rearranged)

 

Feels like we almost always start with England.

it's all about getting the last game on the last day to be a decider 

[GAD]

Has Brace given Glasgow anything here? First collapsed scrum and it's just a natural reaction for him to penalise the jocks.