Ad Lib Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 And they haven't wavered over the date, meanwhile Labour in-fights over whether or not the message should be "bring it on" or "don't bring it on" Which is why New Labour are a fucking shambles. That doesn't justify Independence, just their unsuitablility to govern. Why shouldn't the SNP decide when the referendum should be held though. Because they are only a minority administration and do not have a majorative mandate from the Scottish People. Why are you putting unionist in inverted commas, that's what they are. Because I think it's unfair to lump them together since their views on the Union are all different. The Lib Dems want more Devolved Power (near federalist), Labour want the status quo, and the Conservatives want less Devolved Power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 So you admit that it is entirely partisan and not actually in the interests of the Scottish People holding the referendum in 2010? They wouldn't get a Bill through parliament this term. Perhaps they won't get it through in 2010 either, but 2010 puts more pressure on the unionist parties to vote it through with an election the following year . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Because they are only a minority administration and do not have a majorative mandate from the Scottish People. You really need to read on how the parliamentary model works because this sentence shows that you do not have the slightest idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centralparker Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Because they are only a minority administration and do not have a majorative mandate from the Scottish People. But if enough people side with them to pass a referendum bill, then the referendum will be put to the people. If the nats can't convince their fellow MSPs to support them, then the motion will fail. That's democracy at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Wendy said "Bring it on" Now the current leader of Labour Ian Grey says he would block the referendum because the wording of the question is unacceptable.The Question that would be asked -: Agree or Disagree "The Scottish Government should negotiate a settlement with the government of a United Kingdom so that Scotland becomes an independent state". What's wrong with that ??? The proposed referendum includes 3 options 1. Independence 2. The Status Quo 3. Extended powers at Holyrood The intention was to use STV (if I recall correctly) which could mean that independence could still win the vote without even getting 50% of the first choice votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centralparker Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 The intention was to use STV (if I recall correctly) which could mean that independence could still win the vote without even getting 50% of the first choice votes. Although this will require support from other Holyrood MSPs because, as you keep telling us, the SNP is a minority administration. If it happens, it will be because the house votes the matter through by freedom of choice. Again, democracy at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 The proposed referendum includes 3 options1. Independence 2. The Status Quo 3. Extended powers at Holyrood The intention was to use STV (if I recall correctly) which could mean that independence could still win the vote without even getting 50% of the first choice votes. No party is in favour of the 3 question option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 No party is in favour of the 3 question option. Why then are the three options part of the "National Conversation" the SNP are having with themselves? http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/a-nation...ion/White-Paper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 it should be a straight yes no simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 it should be a straightyes no simple Finally something upon which we can agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Why can't they make the case now? If they believe in it now, there must surely be a case for it now, and we should be allowed to judge that case on its merits. Now. It is partisan to play for time when you know your policy doesn't have majority backing. Maybe they think they can make their case better after a few years in power. Because if the issue of independence is so important, it should be dealt with now. Why? You want one now becasue you think the outcome would be the one you want. If there's no case for independence, then the SNP will never be able to convince the Scottish people and it'll never happen whenever the referendum is held. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss..schlecht Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 You make a valid point but this is the SNP show and they will exploit the rulebook to their advantage. Any other party would do the same thing. Of course they will, and rightly so. Even as a unionist, I would say the best time for the SNP to propose a referendum bill would be if the national team could qualify for the World Cup. They would get a fair few idiots to vote for indepedance on the back of patriotic fervour. They will go to Holyrood and the nation when they think they have the best chance of winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Why then are the three options part of the "National Conversation" the SNP are having with themselves?http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/a-nation...ion/White-Paper Salmond said he would agree with either a 3 question referendum or the 2 question referendum. He gave the unionist parties a choice.....no takers so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Of course they will, and rightly so. Even as a unionist, I would say the best time for the SNP to propose a referendum bill would be if the national team could qualify for the World Cup. They would get a fair few idiots to vote for indepedance on the back of patriotic fervour. They will go to Holyrood and the nation when they think they have the best chance of winning. Well 2010 is fucked then isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jags_mad Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Well 2010 is fucked then isn't it? no football talk here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Because they are only a minority administration and do not have a majorative mandate from the Scottish People. But no party has a majority so who decides? Anybody can put forward a referendum bill and the parliament will vote on it. The SNP are the only ones who seem to want to do this and they've said they'll do it in 2010 and it's entirely within their rights to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Well 2010 is fucked then isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Of course they will, and rightly so. Even as a unionist, I would say the best time for the SNP to propose a referendum bill would be if the national team could qualify for the World Cup. They would get a fair few idiots to vote for indepedance on the back of patriotic fervour. They will go to Holyrood and the nation when they think they have the best chance of winning. England will be at the World Cup in 2010 - unfortunately, I'm quite sure a few morons (let's be honest, there are a lot in Scotland) would vote for independence becaue Mark Lawrenson made some smarmy comment about us not qualifying. It's unfortunate, but there are people out there that are like that. Salmond is a clever man, he has this planned down to the last detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 England will be at the World Cup in 2010 - unfortunately, I'm quite sure a few morons (let's be honest, there are a lot in Scotland) would vote for independence becaue Mark Lawrenson made some smarmy comment about us not qualifying. It's unfortunate, but there are people out there that are like that.Salmond is a clever man, he has this planned down to the last detail. I think we're starting to take the conspiracy theories to their limit here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sideshow boabster Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 England will be at the World Cup in 2010 - unfortunately, I'm quite sure a few morons (let's be honest, there are a lot in Scotland) would vote for independence becaue Mark Lawrenson made some smarmy comment about us not qualifying. It's unfortunate, but there are people out there that are like that.Salmond is a clever man, he has this planned down to the last detail. Plenty of unionist morons too that believe what the Daily Record and unionist politicians tell them ala we're too poor to run the country ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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