Israel And The Palestinians (now with added Iran)

[Shotgun]

Al Jazeera reporting that Iran is telling Israel to immediately halt its “war crimes” against Gaza or it could face “a huge earthquake” of resistance. I suppose that's a start.

[Loonytoons]

3 hours ago, welshbairn said:

But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee:

Much prefer when God realised he was an arsehole and suddenly became all forgiving. 

Shame his followers didn't come to the same conclusion.

[Moomintroll]

Hamas are scum, the current Israeli Government ( & many before and probably after them) are scum, the innocent majority Muslim Palestinians & Israeli majority Jews caught up in this shitshow are victims of both a Terrorist Organisation & a Fascist Goverment that acts like a Terrorist Organisation. Nevertheless the same few posters on here will blame it on the hook nosed jews because Media, Murica & Mbritain, those posters are also scum.

[Thane of Cawdor]

Arron Ferster, a 38-year-old TV producer from Manchester, said: “My grandfather survived Auschwitz and in his testimony described babies being thrown and caught on bayonets by the SS, and that always struck me as unfathomable. But to know that a similar level of barbarism has taken place, and in of all places Israel – which was seen as a safe haven if, God forbid, we ever needed to get out of here – that brought home how strong Jew hate is in some places.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/14/we-feel-so-vulnerable-british-jews-reel-from-atrocities-in-israel

Do people find this stuff credible? If true, it must represent some nadir of evil; if fabricated, it is beyond contemptible.

[oneteaminglasgow]

3 hours ago, Donathan said:

I would prefer to see civilian casualties minimised but I recognise Israel's right to defend itself and to use force to get the hostages back.

Do you extend that to Hamas’ right to use force to get Palestinian prisoners, being held without trial, free?

[Donathan]

1 minute ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Do you extend that to Hamas’ right to use force to get Palestinian prisoners, being held without trial, free?

No. 

[oneteaminglasgow]

Just now, Donathan said:

No. 

Ok, so your position is the same as the other thread that Israel killing civilians is just one of those things, but Hamas doing it is an unacceptable evil? 

[Donathan]

4 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Ok, so your position is the same as the other thread that Israel killing civilians is just one of those things, but Hamas doing it is an unacceptable evil? 

I would prefer to see a peaceful 2-state solution 

[oneteaminglasgow]

7 minutes ago, Donathan said:

I would prefer to see a peaceful 2-state solution 

So you keep saying.

You also branded every Palestinian as antisemitic and claimed that’s the only reason for them opposing Israel, while Israel’s hand has been forced by the Palestinians not wanting to be forced to live in a prison and be ethnically cleansed, so forgive me for not believing you. 

[MazzyStar]

3 hours ago, Donathan said:

No. I would of course prefer a peaceful two state solution. 

You’re a fucking cretin. 

[MazzyStar]

1 hour ago, Moomintroll said:

Hamas are scum, the current Israeli Government ( & many before and probably after them) are scum, the innocent majority Muslim Palestinians & Israeli majority Jews caught up in this shitshow are victims of both a Terrorist Organisation & a Fascist Goverment that acts like a Terrorist Organisation. Nevertheless the same few posters on here will blame it on the hook nosed jews because Media, Murica & Mbritain, those posters are also scum.

Stick to your unhinged rants about “Corbyn loving scum infesting the NHS”. 

[Donathan]

33 minutes ago, MazzyStar said:

You’re a fucking cretin. 

For wanting a peaceful 2 state solution? Isn’t that what most people want. 

[MazzyStar]

Just now, Donathan said:

For wanting a peaceful 2 state solution? Isn’t that what most people want. 

Your other posts make it clear that isn’t what you want. 

[Cheese]

[TxRover]

8 hours ago, 101 said:

At the same time there was a woman (20ish) who survived the music festival attack and was calling for restraint.

 

The Americans rocking up with 2 aircraft carriers seems a little overkill considering they have usable US air force locations in many of the gulf countries but also in Germany, Italy and Spain. I guess they are worried terrorists from Lebanon attack and we end up with some kind of middle Eastern war, that said I'm not sure how much the US or UK can get involved. If we are to be involved it would be far better to keep the peace and allow peace time for Israel to identify those terrorists living in Gaza. This obviously now won't happen.

The entire point of this is probably 1) “encourage” other parties to stay the f**k out, 2) provide a close in staging point for a special forces insertion for hostage rescue and 3) provide a close in transit point for evacuation of U.S. citizens from Israel.

That being said, a SEAL or Delta Force attempt to rescue hostages would likely go badly, too many interested parties with destructive devices, unless they are beachside. Supporting an evacuation seems a more likely primary role, with the keeping others away a bonus value.

[TxRover]

The biggest “problem” we all have in understanding is literally none of us have any viable comparison points. The numbers of deaths don’t relate to any comparison point we have had in our lifetimes, even events like 9/11 are small in number of deaths versus this relative to population (about 10%), while things like the Iraq war dwarf the numbers.

We can talk about squeezing Scotland’s population into some small area, fencing them off, etc, but even then it’s not something we can actually get our heads around, The Irish problems were terrible enough, but make this look like a spat at a nursery school. There is so much to be balanced and argued on both sides, and neither is in any real manner innocent at the leadership levels…but it’s the little guy that suffers, always.

Anyone who can look at the Israeli and Palestinian issues and make any kind of pronouncement about one side or the other being less or more guilty is deluding themselves. There is blame all over, but it doesn’t justify the Hamas actions of the recent incursion or the over-the-top Israeli responses from leadership about destroying and holding a whole population liable.

[MazzyStar]

The amount of attempted bothsideism about this issue is awful. There is a total refusal by many to accept that the conditions forced upon Palestinians is a major factor in the continued support for Hamas. 

The simple fact is, Israel is a country literally built on top of Palestine and the people already living there. From the very beginning with the Nakba, right through to todays occupation, Israeli oppression is constant in the lives of Palestinians. The notion that Israelis are also somehow the victims of this oppression is also laughable. This is supported by the majority of Israelis. It seems to have been forgotten that it was the majority of Israelis who voted for the current far right government in the first place. 

[Moomintroll]

1 hour ago, MazzyStar said:

Stick to your unhinged rants about “Corbyn loving scum infesting the NHS”. 

Stick to sucking Putins dick.

[Stephen Malkmus]

Have to say I'm very impressed with the New York Times' coverage of this. Shits on any of our print media and well worth a subscription

[TxRover]

24 minutes ago, MazzyStar said:

The amount of attempted bothsideism about this issue is awful. There is a total refusal by many to accept that the conditions forced upon Palestinians is a major factor in the continued support for Hamas. 

The simple fact is, Israel is a country literally built on top of Palestine and the people already living there. From the very beginning with the Nakba, right through to todays occupation, Israeli oppression is constant in the lives of Palestinians. The notion that Israelis are also somehow the victims of this oppression is also laughable. This is supported by the majority of Israelis. It seems to have been forgotten that it was the majority of Israelis who voted for the current far right government in the first place. 

The problems go back much further than 1945+, so there are certainly multiple sides here. However, when all your neighbouring States attempt to wipe you off the map, you tend to get a wee bit insular…not that that justifies the ongoing issues.

As for a “majority” voting for the current far right government, that’s an over simplification. It took a massive coalition of 7 of the 13 parties holding seats in the Knesset to (barely) form a government. The key part of the coalition are the religious parties, who cannot properly be considered anything but Israeli Orthodox Jews first rather than right wing. By the same token, you could easily suggest a majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas in 2006, making Palestinian violence and threat a constant in the lives of Israelis…just saying.

Neither side here is in the clear, and the international community has it all to answer for because of how they have effectively ignored this or that as it benefited them. If you want to call that bothsiderism, so be it…but neither side is on the side of the angels, despite what their texts say.