carpetmonster Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 minute ago, greyman said: She may see it as an alternative to Rwanda...... Too many Tory voters with second homes in Cornwall to risk blowing up half of Falmouth along with the Bibby Stockholm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 To assert that the national intelligence agency of Israel comes anywhere close to matching the scope of USA's national intelligence agency, let alone tops it, is utterly ridiculous. McCluskey, presumably, would recognise just how ridiculous a similar claim would be about eg. Sweden's national intelligence agency. So its reasonable to assume antisemitism, a preoccupation with the false belief of cosmic Jewish control, motivated such a stupid utterance from him. His suggestion that Mossad knew about the Hamas attack and let it happen is also extremely stupid. How would they benefit from that? Allowing a security breach to take place which makes them look grossly incompetent, massively denting public confidence in their capabilities. A security breach that led to a series of massacres of the very civilians they're employed to protect. All that just to give an acceptable pretext for what's now being done in Gaza, where the Israeli government are showing they don't care whether their actions are viewed as acceptable or not anyway. Focus is needed on observable reality, on what actually happens. There's not the available bandwidth to be wasted by Len McCluskey treating us to his stupid imaginings. That goes for all conspiracists, its not just that they often propagate bigotry but also just how much of everyone's time they try to waste. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucksburnDandy Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 You really do wonder at what point Sunak and Starmer will start to push the Israelis and Hamas to call a ceasefire. Not that either will make an iota of difference as Netanyahu is hellbent on destroying Gaza and they are both totally irrelevant on the world stage. However, for both UK party leaders to sit idly by and watch what is happening to innocent civilians is abhorrent and shameful. Obviously the Tories will dog whistle to any right wing cause at this point. Starmer and Labour should be better and have a more sensible viewpoint on this. That they don't is because they are trying to appeal to the worst dog whistling, right wing racist c***s in this country. State of politics in the UK just now is depressing. Meanwhile the innocent keep on perishing in Israel and Palestine. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydeTon Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 In other news from around the globe; Bolivia have cut ties with Israel (which, I will note, were only restored in 2019 following a decade without them, also sparked by attacks on Gaza.) - They condenmed Israel's attacks as "Aggressive and Disproportionate", have pledged aid to Gaza/UN Humanitarian efforts, also calling for a ceasefire. They also accused Israel of Crimes against Humanity, which is the main kicker. Everyone's been saying it but no government - apart from Russia and Iran, but do they really count? - has called them out, until now. Bolivia may have the grand total of zero global influence but it's a huge statement, and it could end up sparking a few other countries to follow suit. Perhaps, it'll put pressure on the UN and ICC to look into this properly. Meanwhile, the Houthi rebels in Yemen - who the Saudis have been fighting for years - have declared war on Israel. They launched missiles and drone strikes against Israeli Territory. The Houthi's emblems are extremely anti-semetic (saying "Death to Jews" and Curse the Jews") - and are Iranian-backed. So, naturally, they aren't very fond of Israel. Although, this could be a sign of an escalation. This is Iran's way of really getting a foot in this conflict and, ultimately, it wouldn't be past Israel to just go on the warpath against their neighbours. They know the west can't and won't say anything - and really the west's support is all anyone needs. Now this war is really beginning to spread, though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Why is Len McCluskey, a retired trade union leader, appearing on GB News punting conspiracy theories ? Stupid country. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 8 minutes ago, Ziggy Sobotka said: Why is Len McCluskey, a retired trade union leader, appearing on GB News punting conspiracy theories ? Neil Oliver needs a day off sometimes? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 5 minutes ago, coprolite said: Neil Oliver needs a day off sometimes? I would actually watch McCluskey v Oliver screaming conspiracy theories at each other until I'm forced to switch off when McCluskey's nasal Scouse drone starts making my eye twitch. Seeing as you mentioned Oliver though, any excuse to post this... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Freedom Farter said: To assert that the national intelligence agency of Israel comes anywhere close to matching the scope of USA's national intelligence agency, let alone tops it, is utterly ridiculous. McCluskey, presumably, would recognise just how ridiculous a similar claim would be about eg. Sweden's national intelligence agency. So its reasonable to assume antisemitism, a preoccupation with the false belief of cosmic Jewish control, motivated such a stupid utterance from him. His suggestion that Mossad knew about the Hamas attack and let it happen is also extremely stupid. How would they benefit from that? Allowing a security breach to take place which makes them look grossly incompetent, massively denting public confidence in their capabilities. A security breach that led to a series of massacres of the very civilians they're employed to protect. All that just to give an acceptable pretext for what's now being done in Gaza, where the Israeli government are showing they don't care whether their actions are viewed as acceptable or not anyway. Focus is needed on observable reality, on what actually happens. There's not the available bandwidth to be wasted by Len McCluskey treating us to his stupid imaginings. That goes for all conspiracists, its not just that they often propagate bigotry but also just how much of everyone's time they try to waste. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/12/israel-hamas-war-egypt-warned-foreign-affairs-gaza There is confirmation that Israel was forewared of these attacks and did nothing to stop them. So his suggestion that Mossad knew this was going to happen is backed up by chair of the US House Foreign Intelligence Committee. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/12/israel-hamas-war-egypt-warned-foreign-affairs-gaza There is confirmation that Israel was forewared of these attacks and did nothing to stop them. So his suggestion that Mossad knew this was going to happen is backed up by chair of the US House Foreign Intelligence Committee. Its not the Foreign Intelligence Committee its the Foreign Affairs Committee that he chairs. That position in every country seems to exclusively attract politicians who talk shite. For example, the UK Foreign Affairs Committee chair is a Tory called Alicia Kearns who I've complained about loads in another thread. So my guess would be this Texas Republican is inflating his own importance and that the "intelligence" he was given was just word of the media reports. On those media reports, they came from Israel and cited an unnamed Egyptian intelligence official. Egyptian media then denied the claim, as that Guardian article itself points out: Also, if you look at what Israeli media quoted, I don't think it suggests a warning specifically of the attacks last month. It reads more to me like a general warning that the ongoing situation is untenable: What's being said there is pretty standard stuff that analysts had been saying for a while. The "situation" being referenced will be the wider political situation. Israel had been pursuing normalised relations with Arab governments first facilitated by Trump but continued by Biden. The effect of this was to remove the main leverage the Palestinians had always had over Israel - that all Israel's neighbours would only normalise relations if Israel offered the Palestinians a just solution. The Palestinians couldn't see this only form of leverage be taken away from them and because they're completely sidelined from the political process, they'd likely view major violence as their only form of recourse. Also, there is no capacity for violent resistance in West Bank due to Israeli military control being absolute there. Gazan militants therefore feel they must be the defenders of West Bank Palestinians. In recent times, Israel had been increasingly aggressive in their destruction of West Bank Palestinian life. They'd been turning up the dial constantly on that, emboldened by USA's and even Arab governments' new-found tolerance of it. So it was only a matter of time until an explosion came from Gaza in response. Edited November 1, 2023 by Freedom Farter 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 7 hours ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/12/israel-hamas-war-egypt-warned-foreign-affairs-gaza There is confirmation that Israel was forewared of these attacks and did nothing to stop them. So his suggestion that Mossad knew this was going to happen is backed up by chair of the US House Foreign Intelligence Committee. How many warnings of attacks do you think that intelligence/security services receive on an ongoing basis? Your account is no less simplistic - and wrong - than claiming that the US knew about 9/11 in advance (note all the anti-Semitic tropes that swirl around that conspiracy) or indeed that the US and the Soviet Union deliberately 'allowed' the attacks that brought both countries into the Second World War. It is just toxic bullshit to try and shift attention from Hamas' terrorist actions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 Any forewarning of an attack would likely have come in the form of 'they've got something planned' which understandably would be assumed to be a bigger rocket attack than usual and would be dealt with by the Iron Dome. There is no chance they would have allowed something on the scale of what Hamas did to happen. There were groups of fighters still roaming around up to 72 hours after they broke out of Gaza, which points to complacency rather than conspiracy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHF-23 Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 We are so back baby 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 13 minutes ago, GHF-23 said: We are so back baby Can't beat Sadaam's for simplicity though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Ziggy Sobotka said: Any forewarning of an attack would likely have come in the form of 'they've got something planned' which understandably would be assumed to be a bigger rocket attack than usual and would be dealt with by the Iron Dome. There is no chance they would have allowed something on the scale of what Hamas did to happen. There were groups of fighters still roaming around up to 72 hours after they broke out of Gaza, which points to complacency rather than conspiracy. Arabs are a bit shifty looking at the best of times, how would we know they were up to no good? Said an Israeli Government source. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 13 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Arabs are a bit shifty looking at the best of times, how would we know they were up to no good? Said every Dundee fan. FTFY 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 9 hours ago, Freedom Farter said: Its not the Foreign Intelligence Committee its the Foreign Affairs Committee that he chairs. That position in every country seems to exclusively attract politicians who talk shite. For example, the UK Foreign Affairs Committee chair is a Tory called Alicia Kearns who I've complained about loads in another thread. So my guess would be this Texas Republican is inflating his own importance and that the "intelligence" he was given was just word of the media reports. McCaul is a known blowhard and a moron. He’s failed upward at every level, and likes to bleat about his personal wealth without mentioning most of it came from money transfers from his wife’s family (owns Clear Channel Communications). He’s never seen a war/fight/air strike he didn’t like. Recently it was him that pushed a picture of an Asian man leaving Zelenskyy’s speech at the UN as evidence that China didn’t support Ukraine…too bad it was the Vietnamese Deputy… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 1 hour ago, GHF-23 said: We are so back baby How have they got all this equipment in whilst Israel control the border and have done for some time? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHF-23 Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, 101 said: How have they got all this equipment in whilst Israel control the border and have done for some time? I mean it almost certainly looks nothing like this, shared due to similarity with the mail's previous "inside Tora Bora" graphic from the invasion of Afghanistan Edited November 1, 2023 by GHF-23 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 9 minutes ago, 101 said: How have they got all this equipment in whilst Israel control the border and have done for some time? Their sophisticated equipment does appear to consist of a monitor and a desktop printer. That’s easy to get in. for the ammo etc, some of these tunnels go to Iran. I’d have put the weapons cache on a lower floor though. Maybe swap it with the hostages? Put them up the top with the exploding missile. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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