Dee Man Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 its high time we turned our back on Israel, Theres a quote from an IDL spokesman which goes along the lines of, Civilians that dont leave their homes after a warning are willing human shields and I have no compassion for them, and anyone killed who has returned to their flattened homes was helping Hamas?!This from the mob that doesnt target civillians? They've also sent phone messages and dropped leaflets to the civilians telling them to flee their homes. Where are they supposed to go in the most densely populated area on the planet? If you're a suspected militant at 4ft tall and playing football on the beach then what chance has anyone got? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloomogganners Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Chief of Staff saying: "Even as we carry out strikes, we remember that there are civilians in Gaza. Hamas has turned them into hostages." "We remember that there are civilians in Gaza" Again, the logic is clear. All civilians in Gaza are being held hostage by Hamas, which is considered a war crime and a gross violation of international law governing armed conflict. This, then, provides legal and moral justification against the accusation that Israel is the one killing civilians. Presumed human rights violations carried out by Palestinians against Palestinians - taking hostages and human shielding - thus become the legitimisation of lethal and indiscriminate violence on the part of the occupying force. Hence, the use of human shields is not only a violation. In contemporary asymmetric urban wars, accusing the enemy of using human shields helps validate the claim that the death of "untargeted civilians" is merely collateral damage. When all civilians are potential human shields, when each and every civilian can become a hostage of the enemy, then all enemy civilians become killable. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/07/human-shielding-gaza-2014717154428830848.html Google The Israeli Project 2009 Global Language Dictionary 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 How anyone can defend Israels actions beyond belief. We're here because it's our land, always was, always will be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 We're here because it's our land, always was, always will be. Quite right, and even though we were absentee landlords for a couple of millennium, the people that lived there are fictional, no such thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accies Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Chief of Staff saying: "Even as we carry out strikes, we remember that there are civilians in Gaza. Hamas has turned them into hostages." "We remember that there are civilians in Gaza" Again, the logic is clear. All civilians in Gaza are being held hostage by Hamas, which is considered a war crime and a gross violation of international law governing armed conflict. This, then, provides legal and moral justification against the accusation that Israel is the one killing civilians. Presumed human rights violations carried out by Palestinians against Palestinians - taking hostages and human shielding - thus become the legitimisation of lethal and indiscriminate violence on the part of the occupying force. Hence, the use of human shields is not only a violation. In contemporary asymmetric urban wars, accusing the enemy of using human shields helps validate the claim that the death of "untargeted civilians" is merely collateral damage. When all civilians are potential human shields, when each and every civilian can become a hostage of the enemy, then all enemy civilians become killable. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/07/human-shielding-gaza-2014717154428830848.html Google The Israeli Project 2009 Global Language Dictionary Bomber Harris thought and said this 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/israel_palestine_pop.html almost no Jewish people a few hundred years ago and note 1946 to 1948 the affect of the Jewish ethnic cleansing on the non jewish population. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam4267 Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/israel_palestine_pop.html almost no Jewish people a few hundred years ago and note 1946 to 1948 the affect of the Jewish ethnic cleansing on the non jewish population. By ethnic cleansing you of course mean many people choosing to leave. There's more Arabs in Israel now than there was in 1948 so how is that ethnic cleansing?What about the actual ethnic cleansing that took place of Jews in many Arab countries? Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Morrocco, Egypt, Tunisia and Syria had nearly a million Jews in 1948 and now there are less than 20000 in all those countries combined. Jews were treated as second class citizens - if they were lucky - and many were killed for the 'crime' of being Jewish. Of course that doesn't fit in with your narrative does it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 By ethnic cleansing you of course mean many people choosing to leave. There's more Arabs in Israel now than there was in 1948 so how is that ethnic cleansing?What about the actual ethnic cleansing that took place of Jews in many Arab countries? Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Morrocco, Egypt, Tunisia and Syria had nearly a million Jews in 1948 and now there are less than 20000 in all those countries combined. Jews were treated as second class citizens - if they were lucky - and many were killed for the 'crime' of being Jewish. Of course that doesn't fit in with your narrative does it. How many left to go and live in Israel? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Tattiescone Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 How many left to go and live in Israel? After they were expelled from the Arab countries you mean? http://www.meforum.org/263/why-jews-fled-the-arab-countries 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 After they were expelled from the Arab countries you mean? http://www.meforum.org/263/why-jews-fled-the-arab-countries I was, rather clumsily, making the point that if they so desired these Jews had a country to go to, without fear of pogroms, specifically set up for Jews to live in. I appreciate they may not have had a choice of whether they wanted to go there or not, and might well have arrived in Israel penniless after having everything confiscated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam4267 Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 How many left to go and live in Israel? In many of the Arabian countries the Jews weren't allowed to leave. The governments wanted them to stay and suffer the riots, looting and violence and be treated like second class citizens. Jews in Syria effectively lived under the same conditions as Jews in Germany in the 1930s and many people in other countries weren't treated much better. Israel actually had to buy the Jews off the governments of certain countries such as Morrocco who didn't treat them as badly. However, within the countries who had invaded Israel in 1948 and in 1967 the Jews were persecuted and many were killed by the government and had to illegally emigrate to Israel or other countries. A lot of these people didn't actually want to leave their homes. It is pretty obvious that 98% of a 1 million strong population would not voluntarily emigrate from an area in a period of 40 or 50 years. Many were forced out and many killed. By comparison the Scottish Jewish population is only about 40% smaller than in the late 1940s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Where are we exactly going with this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Where are we exactly going with this? I was wondering that myself. Who gives a f**k about the history when right now we have Israelis indiscriminately murdering innocent people. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 By ethnic cleansing you of course mean many people choosing to leave. There's more Arabs in Israel now than there was in 1948 so how is that ethnic cleansing?What about the actual ethnic cleansing that took place of Jews in many Arab countries? Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Morrocco, Egypt, Tunisia and Syria had nearly a million Jews in 1948 and now there are less than 20000 in all those countries combined. Jews were treated as second class citizens - if they were lucky - and many were killed for the 'crime' of being Jewish. Of course that doesn't fit in with your narrative does it. No , by ethnic cleansing I mean ethnic cleansing, Of some 800'000 Arabs in the 40s. I know this fact doesn't sit well with your Zionist apologist narrative but it happened. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/?qid=20070413045950AAgdc7A 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) That right, however, has never been accorded the Palestinian people. In November 1947, just days after the United Nations General Assembly voted to partition Palestine and create a Jewish state that was to have a population of 520,000 Jews and 320,000 Arabs, the Zionist leader ............. David Ben-Gurion, who would become Israels first prime minister, told a gathering of his partys supporters, This fact must be viewed in all its clarity and sharpness. With such a composition, there cannot even be complete certainty that the government will be held by a Jewish majority. . . There can be no stable and strong Jewish state so long as it has a Jewish majority of only 60 percent. The solution, according to Ben-Gurion, was that it would be better to expel the Arabs than allow them to remain, thus ensuring a homogenous Jewish state............ . (Quoted in The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949, by Benny Morris, Cambridge University Press, 1987, p. 28.) Moreover, Ben-Gurion and other Zionist leaders accepted the UN partition only as a preliminary stage. They dreamed that eventually Israel would consist of all of historic Palestine from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. Ben-Gurions initial concern about the Arab demographic problem was soon taken care of. Fighting between Israeli militias and Palestinian irregular forces, backed by volunteers from other countries, began soon after and so did the expulsions. By May 15, 1948, when British troops withdrew from what had been Mandate Palestine, and Israel declared its independence, already nearly 250,000 Palestinians had fled or had been forced to flee Palestine. These expulsions occurred even before the armies of seven Arab states invaded in an attempt to block the creation of Israel. By 1949 only about 100,000 Palestinian Arabs remained in an expanded Israeli state that went beyond the boundaries specified by the UN partition resolution. The UN resolution had granted the new Israeli state 55 percent of historic Palestine, but by the time the fighting ended in 1949, Israel controlled 78 percent of the land. Approximately 750,000 Palestinians became refugees, forced to flee their homes and land as a result of military force or the threat of force. Zionist militias carried out a number of massacres of civilians, including women and children, raising fear among the Palestinian population. Even those Palestinians who remained within Israel became internally displaced refugees, denied the right to return to their homes and villages and forced to relocate within Israel. (See Morris above, p. 298, and The Forgotten Palestinians: A History of the Palestinians in Israel by Ilan Pappe, Kindle edition, Location 671-83..) For decades after the state of Israel was formed, the Israeli government promoted the propaganda myth that the Palestinians had left their homes voluntarily, urged to leave by their own leaders and at the behest of neighboring Arab governments opposed to the partition plan. According to this myth, the Arab leadership pledged that the Palestinians would be able to return after the Arab armies had defeated the Zionist forces. Most historians, including many Israeli historians, now dispute this propaganda claim, which was widely accepted in the West Edited July 19, 2014 by THE KING 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Tattiescone Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 TL;DR 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Tattiescone Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I have to say I'm guided by the fact that the people who tend to stand up for the Pals are utter wankstains and p***ks like George Galloway and the racist Diane Abbott. Most of the rest seem to go by the reasoning that Israel is supported by America, America is the most successful exponent of capitalism, capitalism is baaa-aad, so Jews are baaa-aad mkaay. Mon the Jooz! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Or...just dont like to watch collective punishment being dished out...which is a war crime . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Tattiescone Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Or...just dont like to watch collective punishment being dished out...which is a war crime . -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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